Kevin Wimmer

Johnny J · Jul 28, 2017

I really don't think Van Dijk is that much better than Wimmer. The latter showed what he could do when Jan was injured the season before last, and had a good run of games. Van Dijk has awful positional sense, I can't believe the figures being quoted for him.

Jospur · Jul 28, 2017

Johnny J said:
I really don't think Van Dijk is that much better than Wimmer. The latter showed what he could do when Jan was injured the season before last, and had a good run of games. Van Dijk has awful positional sense, I can't believe the figures being quoted for him.

It's fantastic that you think that Wimmer has about the same effectiveness as Van Dijk. Let's hope that the Southampton brass think the same if and when it's time to replace Van Dijk...

WiganSpur · Jul 28, 2017

THFCSPURS19 said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-want-Kevin-Wimmer-lose-Virgil-van-Dijk.html

Southampton to target Kevin Wimmer if they lose Virgil van Dijk this summer

Lol the price just went up to £30m

ajspurs · Jul 28, 2017

I do find that Wimmer has a slight air of vulnerability about him sometimes, one that someone like VVD doesn't. Although he has been known to have a few lapses in concentration sometimes. Though it's hard to truly judge someone who has never had a greatly lengthy run in the side.

Cravenspurs · Jul 28, 2017

ajspurs said:
I do find that Wimmer has a slight air of vulnerability about him sometimes, one that someone like VVD doesn't. Although he has been known to have a few lapses in concentration sometimes. Though it's hard to truly judge someone who has never had a greatly lengthy run in the side.

His run in Verts shoes two years ago was pretty lengthy and he made many people on these boards, including myself, forget Jan was injured. I side with the theory that defense is where game time matters most verse outfield players. Defense is a reactive role where you read the game far more than those that are attacking. So seeing the game unfold takes some getting used to and no amount of training can get you ready for a game like scenario.

Tyler24durden · Jul 28, 2017

If I were levy, I'd be doing a deal for vvd with wimmer a makeweight.

We improve our defence massively and have long term replacement for verts and Toby.

Allows CCV to be loaned up to get experience and vvd is a massive threat at set pieces.

I'm sure he would come to us if given the choice.

Could even loan them CCV in the deal.

Sweech · Jul 28, 2017

allatsea said:
Poch is just playing the game IMO. He can't say he wants him to go as he isn't good enough so he toes the party line so Levy can get the best price for him.

I think though that Poch isn't actively trying to move Wimmer from the team.

We know what that looks like when Poch wants someone gone and it looks pretty obvious that it isn't the case with Wimmer.

Ben1 · Jul 28, 2017

Sweech said:
I think though that Poch isn't actively trying to move Wimmer from the team.

We know what that looks like when Poch wants someone gone and it looks pretty obvious that it isn't the case with Wimmer.

He cuts people out generally, but I think he's sensible enough not to cut someone out that he may need. In a similar way that he kept walker around, rather than the complete Townsend, Ade treatment.

spuradik · Jul 28, 2017

I wouldn't mind swapping him for Cedric Soares. Not that it's going to happen.

Sweech · Jul 28, 2017

Tyler24durden said:
If I were levy, I'd be doing a deal for vvd with wimmer a makeweight.

We improve our defence massively and have long term replacement for verts and Toby.

Allows CCV to be loaned up to get experience and vvd is a massive threat at set pieces.

I'm sure he would come to us if given the choice.

Could even loan them CCV in the deal.

At the prices quotes for VVD no chance.

BringBack_leGin · Jul 29, 2017

I think I'm alone in thinking that we don't need to do anything to our central defence. Wimmer is fine, the hammering he got for the a Roma friendly was ludicrous, and CCV is only going to improve with experience so be patient, clearly Pochettino rates him. Then there's Dier as a very strong options when he's not in midfield, so we currently have 5 for 2 or 3 positions, no need to shake it up.

If someone actually offers for Wimmer and he wants to go there then that's another matter, but we'd then absolutely have to replace him, currently we don't.

Also, it's fine saying we should loan out CCV, I thinking loaning players works well, but our manager keeps those he rates nearby so we just have to trust him on that.

Colonel Dax · Jul 29, 2017

BringBack_leGin said:
I think I'm alone in thinking that we don't need to do anything to our central defence.

Disagree. Our mini-slump last autumn coincided with Toby's injury. We rely on our strong defence and when that's weakened we look much more fragile generally.

Even when Jan got injured, Poch didn't trust Wimmer to step in (he only made 5 league appearances last season, despite Toby and Jan missing multiple matches).

IMO we should be looking to sign a competent centre back.

kernowspurscoach1977 · Jul 29, 2017

Colonel Dax said:
Disagree. Our mini-slump last autumn coincided with Toby's injury. We rely on our strong defence and when that's weakened we look much more fragile generally.

Even when Jan got injured, Poch didn't trust Wimmer to step in (he only made 5 league appearances last season, despite Toby and Jan missing multiple matches).

IMO we should be looking to sign a competent centre back.

Toby is absolutely key to us, the way we play and how bloody good he is! Any team in the world if you take out the main man in their defence, the back up
Will it be as good! That's the way it is - any team in the league Toby would improve and any team in the league would Miss him and have a tough time replacing him. What cost is last season was when he was injured we set up not to lose which we didn't( unbeaten run ), but we were not as

Colonel Dax · Jul 29, 2017

kernowspurscoach1977 said:
Toby is absolutely key to us, the way we play and how bloody good he is! Any team in the world if you take out the main man in their defence, the back up
Will it be as good! That's the way it is - any team in the league Toby would improve and any team in the league would Miss him and have a tough time replacing him. What cost is last season was when he was injured we set up not to lose which we didn't( unbeaten run ), but we were not as

Oh I agree with you - Toby is key for us. My point is that the drop down in quality to Wimmer (and Carter Vickers) is too steep. I'd argue Poch agrees as last season he hardly picked him despite lengthy injuries to both Toby and Jan.

Ben1 · Jul 29, 2017

Colonel Dax said:
Disagree. Our mini-slump last autumn coincided with Toby's injury. We rely on our strong defence and when that's weakened we look much more fragile generally.

Even when Jan got injured, Poch didn't trust Wimmer to step in (he only made 5 league appearances last season, despite Toby and Jan missing multiple matches).

IMO we should be looking to sign a competent centre back.

Agreed, I like Wimmer, but it was clear poch didn't fully trust him. I like the versatility of our squad and individual players but I think sometimes it can go too far. Without Wimmer we HAVE to change shape from a 3421 with an injury and I'm not too keen on shape change being enforced with one injury.
Similarly it puts a lot on Dier to be both 3rd defender and one of 3 main midfielders (plus some suggesting he could be used to cover right back)...this looks great on paper, but only takes a couple of injuries at the same time to expose the flaws of a small squad,

rabbikeane · Jul 29, 2017

Could be said that the reason why Wimmer is such a drop in quality is that lack of game time made him dull. Was much sharper the first time he replaced Vertonghen. I think overall he's a better player than the likes of Keane, Gibson, Maguire etc.
If true that means that yes, Wimmer should leave for both our and his own benefit. But also that if his replacement falls into the same pattern then he as well likely have a short shelf life expectency.
Someone who remain back up over time will have to be replaced to fresh things up.

Ben1 · Jul 29, 2017

rabbikeane said:
Could be said that the reason why Wimmer is such a drop in quality is that lack of game time made him dull. Was much sharper the first time he replaced Vertonghen. I think overall he's a better player than the likes of Keane, Gibson, Maguire etc.
If true that means that yes, Wimmer should leave for both our and his own benefit. But also that if his replacement falls into the same pattern then he as well likely have a short shelf life expectency.
Someone who remain back up over time will have to be replaced to fresh things up.

Agreed, however I think his problems began before the lack of football. He was dropped from the bench early in the season for CCV and wasn't used as first reserve in that position (dier or change in shape to back 2). He would have got a lot more minutes if he came in at every opportunity as with the season before.

worcestersauce · Jul 29, 2017

Sweech said:
At the prices quotes for VVD no chance.

It's not the price of VVD that matters it's the difference in the price between VVD and Wimmer and with our Daniel involved I have a sneaky feeling that wouldn't be much, mind you I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted some money as well.

WiganSpur · Jul 29, 2017

Colonel Dax said:
Oh I agree with you - Toby is key for us. My point is that the drop down in quality to Wimmer (and Carter Vickers) is too steep. I'd argue Poch agrees as last season he hardly picked him despite lengthy injuries to both Toby and Jan.

Dier?

Colonel Dax · Jul 29, 2017

WiganSpur said:
Dier?

Of course, Dier is currently a starter in a centre back 3 and 1st choice backup for a 2. I still think we need another able backup player though - particularly if we play 3 at the back more often.

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