Why is it that our English players come in for the most criticism?

[absolute bobbins]

Have you watched Dembele?

Have you watched Townsend?

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think criticism of our English players has increased as general opinion on the England team has deteriorated. There's now a general perception that English players are technically crap (compared to Spain, Germany, Italy etc) so that's always in the back of people's minds when they discuss Spurs' English players.

So I think sometimes the English players do get a bit of a rougher ride, but it's not always unjustified.

 

[eddiebailey]

Have you watched Townsend?

Townsend makes decisions without weighing up the options, Dembele deliberates for so long that there are no options left. It is as broad as its long, but at least with Andros there is the hope that one day something may come off.

I think the problem with Andros is that he went on a sensational run of form (starting at QPR) so that his confidence went sky high, and he overestimated his own ability and began being too ambitious, encouraged by AVB’s mortar barrage approach to breaking down opposing defences. As the shots failed to go in the confidence nose-dived, and now, desperate to turn things round, he is attempting to shoot even when he has lost confidence in his own ability to do so, making failure inevitable. There is still a game-changing player in there, but getting him back into a good place mentally is going to be a challenge

 

[van_Pommel]

Townsend is a frustrating one because a good coach could easily get him playing well again. He's shooting far too much. He needs to go back to his game that got him the plaudits at QPR. Not cutting inside and trying to shoot all the time. I would put him on the left and tell him to play like a traditional winger, beating his man and getting crosses in. Especially when we have 2 strikers up top. If he puts enough balls, which he is more than capable of, they're bound to put one away.

 

[Mattspur]

Depressingly accurate. They are certainly more articulate.

I do think it's true that our English players come in for more criticism than our foreign players though, certainly on here at least. Just one example I can think of is the stick Defoe got in comparison to, say, Pavlyuchenko. Did Pav contribute more than Defoe in terms of his overall contribution and goalscoring record? Not even close.

I think the reason Pav didn't get as much stick ad Defoe is because no one ever thought he was any good. A Pav thread would go:

Poster 1: Pav is useless.
Everyone else: We agree. Let's be ironic and call him SuperPav lol.
End of conversation.

A thread on Defoe would go:
Poster 1: Defoe is crap
Poster 2: he's a natural finisher
Poster 3: he's always offside
Poster 4: he has no all-round game
Poster 5: he's a great English goal scorer.
And so it goes on.

 

[ultimateloner]

Because aside from Walker none of the other British ones have shown signs of improvement. Daws/Lennon/Defoe game didn't change/improve and both have been with us for a long time.
Contrast that with the non-English ones e.g. Sandro/Vert/Bale/Modric; their games have either changed or improved (Sandro even pops in an odd goal) so they are rightly loved by fans.

I dont know whether being English is a cause or just a coincidence but fact is none have improved aside from Walker.

 

[eddiebailey]

Given that Daws and Lennon joined us as raw youngsters, it is nonsense to say they have not improved; it is more accurate to say that they are now seasoned pros who have plateaued, at a decent level, but not perhaps as good as we would like.

 

[yojambo]

Given that Daws and Lennon joined us as raw youngsters, it is nonsense to say they have not improved; it is more accurate to say that they are now seasoned pros who have plateaued, at a decent level, but not perhaps as good as we would like.

I agree, if you take a step back and look at their careers they can both be proud of what they have achieved. Not many players have played in a top 4/5 side for as long as they have. Unfortunately they don't seem to be able to make the next step up in terms of quality but that's fine as few can make that jump. Considering Lennon cost £1m and Dawson was an add on to the Andy Reid deal I think it's unfair to expect too much from them.

 

[ultimateloner]

In response to yojambo/eddiebailey:

@eddiebailey: It is not non-sense to say they haven't improved. I agree they have plateaued at a decent level.
Trouble is we bought them expecting more and got nothing. Daws came with aerial ability and Lennon with pace; and now what more have they got? nothing. Daws is still incomplete as a defender and Lennon still has no end product.

@yojambo: agree that Lennon was a good buy. I would still buy him at 1m. I dont think thats the point i was making though. What's disappointing isn't that they aren't good players, just that the raw physique is there and over the years nothing developed. Game hasn't changed.

Contrast Ryan Giggs..his game changed even when he got into his 30s.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

the homegrown players probably do get the most stick, but then they also get the most allowances made for them too.

 

[spurious1]

I agree, if you take a step back and look at their careers they can both be proud of what they have achieved. Not many players have played in a top 4/5 side for as long as they have. Unfortunately they don't seem to be able to make the next step up in terms of quality but that's fine as few can make that jump. Considering Lennon cost £1m and Dawson was an add on to the Andy Reid deal I think it's unfair to expect too much from them.

I agree strongly with that. Historically, neither Dawson nor Lennon were brought in with big fanfare and expectations...Dawson was a makeweight in the deal for the mighty Reid and Lennon was backup for Routledge wasn't it? They got their chances, and I have to say that Dawson in particular has been mightily impressive over his career, consistently raising and performing at the top of his game, against all expectations. I do mean the top of HIS game, and not THE game, since he's not Beckenbauer, is he? He's not even Vertonghen. But no one can fault that he's always given his best, never whinged, and generally exceeded expectations, even if no one ever claimed he's a world beater. What's to criticize him about? Not being born with the skill set of Maradona (please don't say it was work ethic...)?

Lennon on the other hand is a bit more frustrating, since, at times, it seemed like he really would be a top top player, but he never quite became it. On the other hand, most saw Dawson as essentially a Championship player, and whatever you think of him, I think it has to be admitted he is a good PL standard in the end, and a lot better than most of us ever expected he would be.

 

[spurious1]

I think with the criticism of the English/foriegn players there are two contrasting tendencies. On the one hand, there is a tendency to be more critical of those we best understand, that is from our own culture, and to be less sensitive to particular defects in people of different cultures. The opposite tendency is to xenophobically distrust strange foreigners and their strange behaviours. However, Spurs fans are cultured, open-minded and sophisticated , therefore not suffering from xenophobia or little-englandness, so the first tendency always wins out...

 

[Jenko]

I don't care what nationality they are, Daws has been so poor this season compared to previous years, and Townsend is the most overrated (not one league goal scored on purpose all season) player in years at spurs.

I've never criticised Lennon, rose or walker cos they've not been as bad.

it's only about performances, not race.

 

[Jenko]

I think criticism of our English players has increased as general opinion on the England team has deteriorated. There's now a general perception that English players are technically crap (compared to Spain, Germany, Italy etc) so that's always in the back of people's minds when they discuss Spurs' English players.

So I think sometimes the English players do get a bit of a rougher ride, but it's not always unjustified.

that's cos England are crap. no-one remember 4 yrs ago? it's about to happen again.

 

[SlickMongoose]

that's cos England are crap. no-one remember 4 yrs ago? it's about to happen again.

What, you think we'll make the knockout stages?

 

[fortworthspur]

its a double-edged sword. I think there is an understandable urge for English fans to latch on to English players, and when they dont perform well this disappointment is greater. You cant say Dawson is over-criticized without acknowledging he used to be almost unassailable around here. He'd get an 8 for putting on his boots.