The Diamond

[stevenurse]

But it worked once...

 

[danielneeds]

Worked for Mourinho in his first stint at Chelsea, but he had Essien at the base of it who was made for the job. It was also a relatively unusual formation before everybody had worked out what the weaknesses were.

You mean Makelele at the base. Essien was the perfect shuttling midfielder because he could run all day.

 

[DiamondLites]

Diamonds Are Forever....

Diamonds are for-never more like please Poch

 

[spurs mental]

Full backs aside we should be looking to replicate as much of what Liverpool do as possible.

Ndombele Dier GLC

Moura Kane Son

We all know how good Kane is at passing. Lucas and Son are as quick and skilful as Salah and Mane. Kanes a better goal scorer than Firmino.

In theory it would work well. If we had better full backs it would be even better.

I actually think Sissoko should be given a run at RB now as well, as he cant be worse than Aurier or KWP. Jan in at LB and Sanchez alongside Toby.

Lloris

Sissoko Toby Sanchez Jan

Ndombele Dier GLC

Lucas Kane Son

​

 

[rossdapep]

My issue with it is that it's being used to shoehorn all his favourites in to the disregard of the collective.

Clearly on his favourites list we have
- Sissoko
- Winks
- Kane
- Son as a striker
- Maybe now Ndombele

If you sacrifice width in order to play the two strikers centrally then you need to have a defensive midfielder who can shield the defence which allows the fullbacks to offer width and the CB's to split and cover the space left behind. However we don't do that, instead we're trying to fit in 3 players in midfield who frankly should all be vying for one position and the clear winner is Ndombele, who would then benefit from the aforementioned defensive midfielder next to him or much better behind him.

My opinion even if we played a DM in the diamond we would still be vulnerable so for me he has to make a decision, Kane or Son up top. The obvious answer is to put Kane up top push Son out wide and then have another winger.

We then have the final spot in the midfield free, this is where we need to decide whether its 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and because of Ndombele's obvious talents further forward. I would favour switching to a 3 meaning that Winks/Sissoko/Dele/Lo Celso can fight for that spot depending on the opposition.

So for me it has to be:

Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Lamela Kane Son

I'd be looking to upgrade the DM if possible. but even this 4-3-3 we have so much opportunity for variance, we can go 4-2-3-1 easily in this formation even with the same dam players. All these players are flexible. If during the game you want to push Son in centrally with these players, move Kane into the 10 and have Lo Celso push outwide as he's done for argentina and have Ndombele drop back into a 2 and you can still retain the width. There's so much flexibility there but we seem to be actively avoiding width and fullback protection. We have done for 2/3 years.

Spot on.

The fact that Poch can't see this but many on here can is worrying.

I honestly think Poch, like many coaches and professors before him, is too far in his vision and is becoming deluded.

There are times where you have to believe in what you are doing, and you'll have critics and some who can't get on board but ultimately it'll work eventually. However I don't think this is the case here, he's so fixated on this diamond that he's alienating some, he's losing their trust and he's doing all detriment to the greater good.

If he had the diamond in mind because he expected a new RB, a DM and new 10 to come in as well as the players we signed then I'd be willing to persist but that's not been the case. So persisting with the diamond is just insanity.

I think the balance is much better in your suggestion and we should see better defensive performances

 

[DJS]

We don't shine bright like a diamond.

 

[king26]

need to play with more heart than diamonds

 

[rossdapep]

We don't shine bright like a diamond.

But Berbatov?

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

Diamond Shites by Waddle and Hoddle. Someone's said that already haven't they.

 

[Bronno]

We don't shine bright like a diamond.

Bright like dogs bright...

 

[Buggsy61]

Shine on you crazy diamond

 

[ilikeost]

I love it.

 

[Primativ]

Funny how we played the first 30 mins last night with it, ironically when we actually looked like winning - when poch moved us into a more traditional 4-4-2 we crumbled - funny things football formations and seemingly it is never about anything else. I mean who would ever think that it might just be something else within the actual formations that might just be the talking point. Now i'm not the biggest fan of the diamond and rightly so, but I sure as hell don't like what is cooking underneath the hood in any formation tbh.

Yeah true, we did, but was that the formation or the system? I mean if we played with the same level of intensity, the high counter pressing in say a 4-2-3-1 would we have lasted the 90 like we used to? Don't get me wrong i'm not defending the use of the diamond, far from it tbh, but I am more critical of the fact that if we were playing a slower tempo game, which we have done for a while would we have been so creamed after 30 mins? I guess what i'm really saying is that we just don't have the players to play the High counter-press anymore and in any formation. The answer? I haven't got a clue tbh

The reason we were creamed after 30 minutes is because the diamond meant our CM had to cover a vast area and all Bayern had to do was switch the play and we were stretched wide open. Hence the players tired so quickly as they aren’t robots.

Hence why the formation choice directly led to us losing the game. Even if we had taken our chances and score four goals we would have probably lost 7 - 4

 

[Buggsy61]

The Question: Is the midfield diamond here to stay and how do you counter it? | Jonathan Wilson

Jonathan Wilson: It's been adopted by Chelsea and Inter, but will this curious tactic stand the test of time in its latest inception?

www.google.co.uk

An old article but might be interesting to some

 

[danielneeds]

Just to say, maybe all the late goals conceded before halftime aren’t just concentration, but because we get tired and invite pressure onto ourselves late in the half.

 

[wrd]

The more I think about it, the diamond isn't the problem, the players and the set up we have for our particular diamond is the problem.

If we switch to a DM as I've alluded to in a 4-3-3 with Dier in there, then we could easily implement the diamond and add width because Dier can slot into the back 3, thus allowing the fullbacks to give width with CB's covering the space behind whilst in possesion.

Alder Dier Vert
RB Ndombele Lo Celso Rose
Lamela
Kane Son

Then out of possesion you can back to a back 4, with Dier shielding the box, Ndombele and Lo Celso can stay central or even possibly double up and Lamela and Son can also go wide to help their fullbacks.

RB Alder Vert Rose
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Lamela Kane Son

The problem for me is in personnel. I love Winks, I've been really impressed with Sissoko but we are shoehorning them in and it's not working. Maybe we can have 1 in whilst Lo Celso is injured but it's high time they became depth.

 

[werty]

The more I think about it, the diamond isn't the problem, the players and the set up we have for our particular diamond is the problem.

If we switch to a DM as I've alluded to in a 4-3-3 with Dier in there, then we could easily implement the diamond and add width because Dier can slot into the back 3, thus allowing the fullbacks to give width with CB's covering the space behind whilst in possesion.

Alder Dier Vert
RB Ndombele Lo Celso Rose
Lamela
Kane Son

Then out of possesion you can back to a back 4, with Dier shielding the box, Ndombele and Lo Celso can stay central or even possibly double up and Lamela and Son can also go wide to help their fullbacks.

RB Alder Vert Rose
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Lamela Kane Son

The problem for me is in personnel. I love Winks, I've been really impressed with Sissoko but we are shoehorning them in and it's not working. Maybe we can have 1 in whilst Lo Celso is injured but it's high time they became depth.

It we played in the second shape you listed below we wouldn't be playing a diamond, we'd be playing 433.

 

[wrd]

It we played in the second shape you listed below we wouldn't be playing a diamond, we'd be playing 433.

Yeah I realised halfway through posting that my suggestion was to line up in a diamond then abandon it instantly

 

[Ghost Hardware]

2 people for it? Quality trolling.

 

[wrd]

2 people for it? Quality trolling.

Least we've found Poch and Jesus's accounts