The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The Concise Edition 10th July 2013

[nedley]

Well if we're not getting the 2 croat babies, surely that means we have a extra £17mil to spend.........right?

I don't think it works that way.

 

[Hoopspur]

Well, I never even thought about doing that "cough"

And the 800,000 Euros we were prepared to pay him per annum versus the 800,000 a month* Higuain wants? Hmmmmm?

*Probably not quite, but you'll get the general gist...

 

[HappySpur]

We talk about transfers in terms of single-stream because it's best estimate. Clubs stage all transfers (maybe not the petro clubs) and the fact is that the number we see is usually best case scenario depending on performance clauses.

So we say Paulinho is 17m GPB. And we consider it all all paid this year.

Because the real truth is that he is probably 4m this year, 3m next year and 3m the following with conditions allowing for an extra 5m if he hits all markers. But figuring that out is either a full time job or a commitment of the utmost love. So it's easier to use one value and one time frame.

And it's exactly why Real Madrid still owe us 20m. They aren't strapped for cash. They staged the transfer.

As always, the Swiss Ramble is helpful for understanding just how little we understand on finances. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2013/04/show-me-money.html

In that article you will see two interesting things immediately.

One) we have the most investment in fixed assets of any club in the league. 42m GPB and that is mostly allocated to the training center. This can't be stressed enough......fix assets limit a club, as unlike a player, you can't sell them to a Russian club for a positive ROI. The good thing is that you get much more time to pay those debts off. But that 42m is going to continue to rise through the building of the our new stadium and it is a debt that will need to be serviced from our income just like any players.

So the next time somebody calls Levy cheap, if you want to defend him, there are 42 million arguments at your immediate disposal. We're a club, not a goddamn player exchange outfit. We have way more financial obligations than a striker.

Two) We have roughly 32 million in working capital. Money that can be used to spend on debts owed. Paulinho=17m. 32m-17m=15m. Anyone else seem to recall that exact number recently? And this is why you play the ball and not the man. Ali Z was told something and passed it on in earnest. But whoever told him that seemed to be equating working capital with spending power.

And that is not the case.

So Calm Down.

Edit: is that better coops?

 

[Blackrat1299]

Why do we have to always have the same discussion?

There is not actually a "war chest" - I.e. a big wooden box full of fucking doubloons - in the corner of Levy's office.

Players need to be paid money as this is their job. They do not do it for free. The better ones get lots of money. So do some bad ones. This means that buying a player is not just a case of taking some of the imaginary doubloons out of the imaginary chest and then counting what is left.

Also, different players being paid different amounts of money means that sometimes we have to get them off the wage bill before we spunk another 5 years of "only" £120k per week and end up paying two players for the same slot in the team. The alternative version of this policy is known as "doing a Leeds" and ends badly.

That is all.

FFS of course we know there isn't a chest in the corner of the office. War Chest is a Colloquialism. Its easier to say that, than, we have got £50 million pounds in Daniel Levy's back pocket ready to use in the case of an emergency just break the seal! What is on offer is what we expect to be paid for a player. Seeing that the club has a wages policy that will have been taken into account over and above the transfer fee. But life isn't that simple I expect there are other factors to be taken into account. We are not simples eh!

 

[worcestersauce]

FFS of course we know there isn't a chest in the corner of the office. War Chest is a Colloquialism. Its easier to say that, than, we have got £50 million pounds in Daniel Levy's back pocket ready to use in the case of an emergency just break the seal! What is on offer is what we expect to be paid for a player. Seeing that the club has a wages policy that will have been taken into account over and above the transfer fee. But life isn't that simple I expect there are other factors to be taken into account. We are not simples eh!

Which rather casts a shadow on the ITK then doesn't it?

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

FFS of course we know there isn't a chest in the corner of the office. War Chest is a Colloquialism. Its easier to say that, than, we have got £50 million pounds in Daniel Levy's back pocket ready to use in the case of an emergency just break the seal! What is on offer is what we expect to be paid for a player. Seeing that the club has a wages policy that will have been taken into account over and above the transfer fee. But life isn't that simple I expect there are other factors to be taken into account. We are not simples eh!

So just to be clear, Daniel definitely does not have a wooden chest in his office? Gutted!

 

[Trees]

We talk about transfers in terms of single-stream because it's best estimate. Clubs stage all transfers (maybe not the petro clubs) and the fact is that the number we see is usually best case scenario depending on performance clauses.

So we say Paulinho is 17m GPB. And we consider it all all paid this year.

Because the real truth is that he is probably 4m this year, 3m this year and 3m the following with conditions allowing for an extra 5m if he hits all markers. But figuring that out is either a full time job or a commitment of the utmost love. So it's easier to use one value and one time frame.

And it's exactly why Real Madrid still owe us 20m. They aren't strapped for cash. They staged the transfer.

As always, the Swiss Ramble is helpful for understanding just how little we understand on finances. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2013/04/show-me-money.html

In that article you will see two interesting things immediately.

One) we have the most investment in fixed assets of any club in the league. 42m GPB and it's all the training center. This can't be stressed enough......fix assets limit a club, as unlike a player, you can't sell them to a Russian club for a positive ROI. The good thing is that you get much more time to pay those debts off. But that 42m is going to continue to rise through the building of the our new stadium and it is a debt that will need to be serviced from our income just like any players.

So the next time somebody calls Levy cheap, if you want to defend him, there are 42 million arguments at your immediate disposal. We're a club, not a goddamn player exchange outfit. We have way more financial obligations than a striker.

Two) We have roughly 32 million in working capital. Money that can be used to spend on debts owed. Paulinho=17m. 32m-17m=15m. Anyone else seem to recall that exact number recently? And this is why you play the ball and not the man. Ali Z was told something and passed it on in earnest. But whoever told him that seemed to be equating working capital with spending power.

And that is not the case.

So Calm Down.

The best post I have seen in here for a long time. Well said.

 

[Greenspur]

If we sign him the £200 will be a parting gift as I'll give up on Spurs, and probably life.

After I donate my £200, I intend to keep on living and supporting Spurs.
So, could you change your Will to leave me your season ticket, and any other riches you may have accumulated over your very successful life ( please- no debts).

 

[xtrac]

Everyone keeps banging on about money, be good to see a loan or 2 from the u21 spanish team, playing for Real Barca etc that Morata looked pretty handy in the euro u21, as did a few other players...we seem to loan out bloody hundreds and yet cant get 1 or 2 in ourselfs, while we are scouting for that top draw striker we crave of unknown quantity on the cheap!

 

[[email protected]]

Thing is the money we were prepared to spend on either mouts or damio should be available still plus whatever we would've made available anyway this summer plus however much extra tv money and sales we make, I don't think £50m should be out of the question

I'm with u on that one, Mill. And if the ITK is correct, we had bids of €20 million and €7 million accepted for the Croatian lads and Villa respectively, so surely that money is still available?

 

[Berbatonghen]

One player i would really like us to give a chance to play is Yago Falque.

I really think he has the potential to be a big player. Apparently he played a huge part in securing Almeria into promotion to the La Liga.

I think players like him, Townsend and Carrol defintely have what it takes to play as back up to bale and lennon etc.

We tend to overlook our current crop of rising stars.

Ideally i would like us to invest heavily only on players that can go straight into the first team ie Paulinho and hopefully a striker of Benteke/Soldado etc.

No need to splash money out on youngsters were we already have a talented bunch within the club.

Just got to give them a real chance.

 

[Greenspur]

Or get wound up, but still masturbate lots!

Glad we're back and running and I wasn't on that list. Must admit I prefer discussions to arguments though. .

A definition of 'argument' is a discussion involving different points of view.
I've argued this point many times with people, who think that an argument is some kind of fight.

 

[Parkie]

FFS of course we know there isn't a chest in the corner of the office. War Chest is a Colloquialism. Its easier to say that, than, we have got £50 million pounds in Daniel Levy's back pocket ready to use in the case of an emergency just break the seal! What is on offer is what we expect to be paid for a player. Seeing that the club has a wages policy that will have been taken into account over and above the transfer fee. But life isn't that simple I expect there are other factors to be taken into account. We are not simples eh!

I know.
I was pointing out that, equally, there is not a guaranteed £50m - no more and no less - that is sitting waiting to be spent. If the amount of money that is available (either in cash or as credit) is spent one way (I.e. a 31 year old striker with payments structured over a three year deal and including a signing on bonus, appearance fees, image rights, balloon payment in final year of contract, wages over the three years, etc) it does not mean that when that deal falls through, the same amount of money banded about in the tabloid press as the "fee" will be instantly applicable to another deal. Likewise, the deal for two junior players on a longer term contract (let's call it £20m for argument's sake) falling through does not mean that there is automatically the cash there to purchase a £20m striker - all of the other variables come into play.
Thanks for explaining what a colloquialism is though.
I always thought "war chest" was an idiom: being as how it is not distinct to a dialect or region.

 

[Kirayid]

So just to be clear, Daniel definitely does not have a wooden chest in his office? Gutted!

I think he has a wooden wheelbarrow for the cash..

 

[Parkie]

One player i would really like us to give a chance to play is Yago Falque.
No need to splash money out on youngsters were we already have a talented bunch within the club.
Just got to give them a real chance.

I agree, but we also have the need for the players that will keep the fans and players like Bale happy. We need a striker - a good one - there is a place for the youth players to make appearances once they are ready but we also have to appreciate that the club will be watching them and will play them when they are ready - if not ready, they go on loan again. We have to keep adding to that pool of young talent in the hopes that one or two will come through as stars. Unfortunately there are lots that don't live up to their earlier potential (Bostock being a prime example).

 

[Greenspur]

FFS of course we know there isn't a chest in the corner of the office. War Chest is a Colloquialism. Its easier to say that, than, we have got £50 million pounds in Daniel Levy's back pocket ready to use in the case of an emergency just break the seal! What is on offer is what we expect to be paid for a player. Seeing that the club has a wages policy that will have been taken into account over and above the transfer fee. But life isn't that simple I expect there are other factors to be taken into account. We are not simples eh!

I refuse to believe it. I just know that there is a big oak box (with brass locks) in the corner of Levy's office. Unfortunately, it's only a normal chest full of money - not a magic purse, such as those owned by Chelsea and City.

 

[Blake Griffin]

We talk about transfers in terms of single-stream because it's best estimate. Clubs stage all transfers (maybe not the petro clubs) and the fact is that the number we see is usually best case scenario depending on performance clauses.

So we say Paulinho is 17m GPB. And we consider it all all paid this year.

Because the real truth is that he is probably 4m this year, 3m next year and 3m the following with conditions allowing for an extra 5m if he hits all markers. But figuring that out is either a full time job or a commitment of the utmost love. So it's easier to use one value and one time frame.

And it's exactly why Real Madrid still owe us 20m. They aren't strapped for cash. They staged the transfer.

As always, the Swiss Ramble is helpful for understanding just how little we understand on finances. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2013/04/show-me-money.html

In that article you will see two interesting things immediately.

One) we have the most investment in fixed assets of any club in the league. 42m GPB and that is mostly allocated to the training center. This can't be stressed enough......fix assets limit a club, as unlike a player, you can't sell them to a Russian club for a positive ROI. The good thing is that you get much more time to pay those debts off. But that 42m is going to continue to rise through the building of the our new stadium and it is a debt that will need to be serviced from our income just like any players.

So the next time somebody calls Levy cheap, if you want to defend him, there are 42 million arguments at your immediate disposal. We're a club, not a goddamn player exchange outfit. We have way more financial obligations than a striker.

Two) We have roughly 32 million in working capital. Money that can be used to spend on debts owed. Paulinho=17m. 32m-17m=15m. Anyone else seem to recall that exact number recently? And this is why you play the ball and not the man. Ali Z was told something and passed it on in earnest. But whoever told him that seemed to be equating working capital with spending power.

And that is not the case.

So Calm Down.

17m was his buyout clause. perhaps the money will be spread over time but there will be no conditional payments.

 

[shelfboy68]

We talk about transfers in terms of single-stream because it's best estimate. Clubs stage all transfers (maybe not the petro clubs) and the fact is that the number we see is usually best case scenario depending on performance clauses.

So we say Paulinho is 17m GPB. And we consider it all all paid this year.

Because the real truth is that he is probably 4m this year, 3m next year and 3m the following with conditions allowing for an extra 5m if he hits all markers. But figuring that out is either a full time job or a commitment of the utmost love. So it's easier to use one value and one time frame.

And it's exactly why Real Madrid still owe us 20m. They aren't strapped for cash. They staged the transfer.

As always, the Swiss Ramble is helpful for understanding just how little we understand on finances. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2013/04/show-me-money.html

In that article you will see two interesting things immediately.

One) we have the most investment in fixed assets of any club in the league. 42m GPB and it's all the training center. This can't be stressed enough......fix assets limit a club, as unlike a player, you can't sell them to a Russian club for a positive ROI. The good thing is that you get much more time to pay those debts off. But that 42m is going to continue to rise through the building of the our new stadium and it is a debt that will need to be serviced from our income just like any players.

So the next time somebody calls Levy cheap, if you want to defend him, there are 42 million arguments at your immediate disposal. We're a club, not a goddamn player exchange outfit. We have way more financial obligations than a striker.

Two) We have roughly 32 million in working capital. Money that can be used to spend on debts owed. Paulinho=17m. 32m-17m=15m. Anyone else seem to recall that exact number recently? And this is why you play the ball and not the man. Ali Z was told something and passed it on in earnest. But whoever told him that seemed to be equating working capital with spending power.

And that is not the case.

So Calm Down.

If then we have only say 15 million of working capital left as you state how was we going to afford to buy all the players we need plus as we were led to believe the two croatian lads for around 20 million euros.
I understand stand that we don't have the financial clout of others but we still need to be a bit adventurous in the transfer market if we have any designs on achieving anything.

 

[HappySpur]

I think he has a wooden wheelbarrow for the cash..

earlier we were speaking of over-used jokes.

And this post epitomizes why they fail. The wheel barrow is something most of us are aware of from past ITK windows. Doesn't get mentioned often. But on occasion somebody will come along and put it in the right place at the perfect time, like this one. And it's gold. By the very nature that it isn't overused, it allows people with this kind of comedic skill to make this place better.

So thanks Kirayid. That gave me a lovely chuckle. Keep up the good work.

 

[paulcumpstone]

One player i would really like us to give a chance to play is Yago Falque.

I really think he has the potential to be a big player. Apparently he played a huge part in securing Almeria into promotion to the La Liga.

I think players like him, Townsend and Carrol defintely have what it takes to play as back up to bale and lennon etc.

We tend to overlook our current crop of rising stars.

Ideally i would like us to invest heavily only on players that can go straight into the first team ie Paulinho and hopefully a striker of Benteke/Soldado etc.

No need to splash money out on youngsters were we already have a talented bunch within the club.

Just got to give them a real chance.

I agree with what you say in principle but when these players are stuck behind Dempsey and THudd in terms of getting minutes then either they ain't ready or AVB don't risk playing them, either way we are stuck with watching more senior pros unless we can shift them