The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Last Day Mayhem! READ FIRST POST! Take 3

[beats1]

United States Of?

nope, Union Deportivo Almeria, but you were close

 

[Mustard]

The long term future of our club comes first.

A new stadium is far more important to us than a new striker. At the moment we lose out on £60m a year in revenue from our small stadium.

NO. A WINNING TEAM COMES FIRST!

Can you not see that?

Queen of the South in Scotland had the fifth or so biggest stadium in the world in th 80s. Where are they?

Scum won leagues, cups and qualified for cl every year before they embarked on such a project.

Levy thinks get a stadium get the idiots in paying £70 a ticket THEN build a team.

It's the cart before the horse business plan

 

[Twizzle]

what happened to all our back up loan plans ?

 

[Lilbaz]

NO. A WINNING TEAM COMES FIRST!

Can you not see that?

Queen of the South in Scotland had the fifth or so biggest stadium in the world in th 80s. Where are they?

Scum won leagues, cups and qualified for cl every year before they embarked on such a project.

Levy thinks get a stadium get the idiots in paying £70 a ticket THEN build a team.

It's the cart before the horse business plan

Portsmouth were a winning team (FA cup), Leeds were a winning team, Rangers were a winning team, Valencia are a winning team.

 

[Bobbins]

Mate they are one of the richest clubs in the world. Don't believe the hype. And furthermore they have an Uzbekistani willing to put in a billion.

It only wenger that has the admirable sense of fair play of stopping them being bigger than barca.

They are 10 to 15 years in front of us.

Pass me your knife when your done.

Yeah and two places behind us.

Ok I give up. You mentioned you were drunk earlier and it's obvious you're not even reading what I'm posting - managing to get the Arsenal points and the knife joke round completely the wrong way, twice. I seem to know a lot more about Arsenal's finances than you do but hey keep ignoring everything I say.

Time for bed for me, not got time to debate with someone who quite literally can't read. I'm assuming English isn't your first language so apologies if that offends but this is a waste of time.

 

[Mustard]

Yeah and two places behind us.

Ok I give up. You mentioned you were drunk earlier and it's obvious you're not even reading what I'm posting - managing to get the Arsenal points and the knife joke round completely the wrong way, twice. I seem to know a lot more about Arsenal's finances than you do but hey keep ignoring everything I say.

Time for bed for me, not got time to debate with someone who quite literally can't read. I'm assuming English isn't your first language so apologies if that offends but this is a waste of time.

Toodles.

 

[Dembele'Disciple]

Dortmund's budget isn't that tight and they have nearly first access to some of the hottest talent in Germany. Don't forget Dortmund pulls 80k a week and is the 2nd biggest club in Germany. We don't quite have the same luxury.

I don't think anyone thinks Dempsey and Gylfi were bad signings. They are clearly talented players with proven success in this league. Glyfi in particular is an obvious talent. They just need to perform better and we need to utilize them better. That is a challenge and they are still early stages in their Spurs careers.

I believe the notion of 'moving forward' is quite rightfully on hold until we get a new stadium. I think the aim is and should be to try and keep qualifying for the ECL. To do this we need to spend and prop up our squad without spending 20-30 million on a player. It is a very difficult task. We need to think long term, have a flash in the pan run of fame and push for a one off title (no guarantees you would even win) or do we want to take a bit of short term pain, hold off our aspirations, build a stadium and spend the next 50 years in the ECL and challenging for titles. The lack of spending now is done so this club can go to the next level in the future.

I know it is hard to accept and look post the immediate future but try people.

Nah, the pursestrings at Dortmund are tighter. They were close to bankruptcy in 2005 so they are carefull about the money they spend. We spend more than them but for far less success. They actually have no luxury. They take punts on players and hope it works out due to great coaching. They sign talented rejects and turn them into special footballers. Their most expensive player cost 18million euro's(they don't have anyone else on the roster that cost them 10million+). Their net spend post 2008(since Klopp took over) has been a grand total of 8million euros. Our club makes more money than theirs and is worth more too.

They might have a very large stadium but due to low ticket prices it isn't as much an advantage as it supposed to be. I'd hazard a guess that we make more money on our gate take ins.

How do they do it? Great scouting and even better coaching. It's rare that they sign a player and the player ends up declining. Oh, they also have a great development structure and actually use the players they develop.

A stadium isn't going to give us the success that we want. A stadium is just going to make the club more money. Even then we won't be making Man Utd money or arsenal money. Liverpool has spent as much as united in the past 20 years and they've won close to nothing while Man U has dominated. Money is a big factor in football but only when used correctly. That we're not doing. Not even close. We don't have a clear plan or policy. Staying stagnant should never be an option. It's other like we're not spending at all, we're just spending on the wrong people.

Dempsey and Gylfi aren't what we should be looking for. Both are way to limited to take us anywhere.

 

[abhalla46]

Just got home, interesting window indeed - not a lot happening in the bigger clubs.
I am disappointed we couldn't sign a versatile forward but at the same time feel we have a good squad of players than barring a series of injuries to key players, are definitely in to compete for 3rd-4th; would another player had an impact? We can only speculate at that, no point in it now.

However, there will come a time I think not too far away, when Ade / Defoe are old, and Bale goes. If we have decided to believe in the current squad and not invest because we didn't want to overspend on stop-gaps etc, I would hope we are prepared to invest in affordable prospects early in the summer window. There is too large a gap in age between Ade and our next striker, Kane, this should be filled by a forward who can play on the wings as cover who is 23/4, still with potential to grow.

The remaining requirements I guess depend on how well our younger players progress e.g. carroll, kane, townsend

Its not all doom and gloom folks, whats done is done and lets support our team to get that all important ECL spot! (and im glad we didnt spend crazy money on damiao - if we are going to spend 20m we better be damn sure hes worth it, and im not convinced so far, esp with his apparent indifference to our interest).

 

[spud]

nope, Union Deportivo Almeria, but you were close

Knew I should've used a fucking smiley when I posted that.

 

[steve]

It could be that the reason why we pursue Moutinho and Leandro, and why we are widely said to have interest in Willian, is because these are the players who AVB wants. If you believe in AVB (as I do, and I presume Levy does) then the least that you can do is to make a balls-out attempt to get the players who he wants.

If said players are beyond your means then hopefully the manager (sorry, head coach) understands that and accordingly aims for other targets. But it's surely better to try for them than not.

What I think we'd all hope is that at the start of his tenure and now AVB and Levy would sit down and work out what was realistic and what wasn't when it came to potential transfers. IF we take some of the stuff we've heard as truthful then it sounds like that wasn't the case previously.

My guess is that as has happened in so many previous chairman/manager relationships, AVB wants x,y and z and Levy can't give them to him. AVB probably understands why but it won't (as a football man) stop him getting slightly pissed off and frustrated. He's used to having top players previously.

I just hope they're closer in their transfer thinking now and that the compromise that's happened is acceptable to both.

I hoped for a decent incoming or two but wasn't banking on it. I thought Tom would go as he doesn't fulfill either midfield requirement in our system. Livermore can cover Parkers role reasonably well and we can't stock pile dms just because Sandro is injured. I'm more concerned about cover for Dembele - maybe Holtby can drop in there if needed.

A foreign striker coming in now guarantees nothing because many players take time to settle and make an impact. We can still compete for 4th with our squad and Ade will only miss 2 more games probably if that. I still wouldn't swap our squad for Arsenals or Evertons. I understand the frustration but it's where we are as a club and it's a lot better than it used to be...

 

[Antilokhos]

Why? I don't regard it as a major fundamental. Does me having a different opinion mean yours, or mine, is invalid?

No.

If I regarded a reserve goalkeeper as backup to Brad as a major fundamental, just saying it and then claiming Levy had let us down because he hadn't brought Kasey Keller back doesn't make it a fact. It makes it an opinion.

In your opinion we desperately needed another striker.

In my opinion, we don't. What we needed more than anything was a creative number 10 to replace VDV. We got one in Holtby, in an absolutely steamingly good deal.

So excuse me if I'm not running the knife down the inside of my forearms but I think it was a good window.

I'm not sure that anybody felt that creativity wasn't a pressing need for the team, and Holtby definitely looks like he is going to help there. And if he does then we should hopefully have a better time at breaking down opposing defenses, but I still think the biggest problem we are likely to encounter the rest of the season is Sandro's injuries. I think addressing that would have been a pretty smart piece of business and aside from some links to Diame it didn't seem like we were linked to anybody who could help there.

Even more dangerous to go that route given Parkers age and recent return from injury. Definitely taking a chance that I would think we could have avoided rather easily. It will be interesting to see what Post-Mortem ITK says.

 

[spud]

NO. A WINNING TEAM COMES FIRST!

Can you not see that?

Queen of the South in Scotland had the fifth or so biggest stadium in the world in th 80s. Where are they?

Scum won leagues, cups and qualified for cl every year before they embarked on such a project.

Levy thinks get a stadium get the idiots in paying £70 a ticket THEN build a team.

It's the cart before the horse business plan

You're right in that you get the team to the best position that you can before you build the stadium, and you're right to say that it's what the Goons did. They did it pre-Abrahmovich and pre-Citeh owners, which was why they were CL every year. Look at where we are. Where would we be without the sugar-daddy owners in west London and Manchester? That's right: CL every year.

We have come just about as far as we can with our present stadium and revenue. If we want to go further before building a bigger ground, we have to compete financially with the current top three in the division (and the current sixth and seventh). This means that we would have to take financial risks that might endanger the club. Levy won't do this, nor should he.

So you're ultimately wrong. Levy has built the team. Now he has to build the stadium.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

official site lists 26 incl gomes, rose, khumalo so 23 which then includes sandro and kabul injured so 21 also includes bentley so 20. defoe needs op, demp shit and ade at acon.... that to push on for champs lge... absolute joke... no other backup other than tom carroll and obika... piss poor. say it now we will end up below both scousers...

Ooh, I like this game. Can I join in?

Firstly, I make it only 25, rather than 26. So we're already worse off. And as you adroitly say, we've got rid of Gomes, Rose and Khumalo, so that's 22. Sandro and Kaboul are injured so it's 20. Bentley we are discounting - I'm not sure why as I believe he is still a professional footballer, but perhaps the FA are bringing in a rule that no player can co-own a nightclub, so now we only have 19 players. Defoe is playing... but might not be fully fit. 18. Demp I presume stands for Dempsey, who apparently needs a shit, which we're scheduling for the whole next four months to allow for diarrhoetical complications (I'm your friend here so I'll assume you can't possibly mean one of the most talented attacking-midfielders in the Premier League and a capable reserve striker IS shit. That would be drivel). That leaves us with 17 players. 16 while Adebayor is in South Africa (for the next week).

Our development squad are the best in the country (give or take Liverpool) it seems, but they don't count. Probably as we're expecting them to be involved in a freak dinghy accident on a team building day out.

Of this 16 first team squad, two of them - Brad and Hugo - are goalkeepers so probably can't be relied upon to score more than a couple of goals, each. Hence they don't count.

Kyle Naughton and Walker are "liabilities". I've seen this written several times. Therefore, they're off the list, too.

Vertonghen was poor against Leeds. Therefore I hate him. You should hate him too. Same goes for Parker. So they're binned. And they both have posh hair. Yes, they're definitely sacked.

And you, with the afro? Who do you think you are? What do you mean "Lol". You're sacked too.

Dawson? "Poor-son" more like. Get gone, son. You're never going to get this high line business of AVBs.

Caulker? Do me a favour. It's one thing to look good for Swansea but Spurs deserve better.

Gallas is too old. And too shit. And too ex-Chelsea and ex-Arsenal. And too French. And too shiny headed.

So, where are we? Oh my God we only have 8 players left!!!

And of those 8, one of them comes from Iceland. Iceland! Have you ever heard of such a thing. He's naturally a bag of crap. Apart from when he sets up or scores goals. Seven.

One is called Jake. Enough said. Six.

Gareth Bale is leaving in the summer, so we may as well cancel his contract. Five.

Holtby can't be expected to be match-fit. Everyone knows the Bundesliga is a "lesser" league and inferior to England. Goes to figure he won't be able to play much, not worth counting. Four.

Tom Carroll is seven years old. Three.

Mousa Dembele is an injury liability. We may as well just send him to the knacker's yard. Two.

And I don't trust Aaron Lennon's eyebrows.


So, basically, when you look into it, Daniel Levy expects Andre Villas-Boas to qualify for the Champions League using ONE PLAYER. And that player is Tom Huddlestone.

 

[Lilbaz]

Ooh, I like this game. Can I join in?

Firstly, I make it only 25, rather than 26. So we're already worse off. And as you adroitly say, we've got rid of Gomes, Rose and Khumalo, so that's 22. Sandro and Kaboul are injured so it's 20. Bentley we are discounting - I'm not sure why as I believe he is still a professional footballer, but perhaps the FA are bringing in a rule that no player can co-own a nightclub, so now we only have 20 players. Defoe is playing... but might not be fully fit. 18. Demp I presume stands for Dempsey, who apparently needs a shit, which we're scheduling for the whole next four months to allow for diarrhoetical complications (I'm your friend here so I'll assume you can't possibly mean one of the most talented attacking-midfielders in the Premier League and a capable reserve striker IS shit. That would be drivel). That leaves us with 17 players. 16 while Adebayor is in South Africa (for the next week).

Our development squad are the best in the country (give or take Liverpool) it seems, but they don't count. Probably as we're expecting them to be involved in a freak dinghy accident on a team building day out.

Of this 16 first team squad, two of them - Brad and Hugo - are goalkeepers so probably can't be relied upon to score more than a couple of goals, each. Hence they don't count.

Kyle Naughton and Walker are "liabilities". I've seen this written several times. Therefore, they're off the list, too.

Vertonghen was poor against Leeds. Therefore I hate him. You should hate him too. Same goes for Parker. So they're binned. And they both have posh hair. Yes, they're definitely sacked.

And you, with the afro? Who do you think you are? What do you mean "Lol". You're sacked too.

Dawson? "Poor-son" more like. Get gone, son. You're never going to get this high line business of AVBs.

Caulker? Do me a favour. It's one thing to look good for Swansea but Spurs deserve better.

Gallas is too old. And too shit. And too ex-Chelsea and ex-Arsenal. And too French. And too shiny headed.

So, where are we? Oh my God we only have 8 players left!!!

And of those 8, one of them comes from Iceland. Iceland! Have you ever heard of such a thing. He's naturally a bag of crap.Apart from when he sets up or scores goals. Seven.

One is called Jake. Enough said. Six.

Gareth Bale is leaving in the summer, so we may as well cancel his contract. Five.

Holtby can't be expected to be match-fit. Everyone knows the Bundesliga is a "lesser" league and inferior to England. Goes to figure he won't be able to play much, not worth counting. Four.

Tom Carroll is seven years old. Three.

Mousa Dembele is an injury liability. We may as well just send him to the knacker's yard. Two.

And I don't trust Aaron Lennon's eyebrows.


So, basically, when you look into it, Daniel Levy expects Andre Villas-Boas to qualify for the Champions League using ONE PLAYER. And that player is Tom Huddlestone.

No wonder we didn't let him go. He could be our next Jenas and we all need a Jenas to blame for when things go wrong.

 

[BK007]

I'm sure this drum has already been beaten, but time to retire "ITKs". Damiao done! My balls are still bouncing with laughter.

In the end, as expected, we get no one at all in. Despite me even expecting it and saying so, I still am disappointed. We like to grab on hope and I did believe that just maybe we did have something in the offing-but as usual it was a fool's faith.

It's become clear we actually don't have money. Otherwise we wouldn't be so frugal in haggling for what amounts to a bun at Sainsbury's. It was a good show perpetuated, but as with any ruse, the more you use it, the less believable it becomes.

Now I'm sure it's good to signal intent as we have done, despite having nothing to back it up, for appearance's sake, but now it's farcical and doing more damage than good. Hope people learn from this window, finally, that unless reported as news, that there are a helluva lot of attention seekers out there.

 

[Dempsey2]

Nah, the pursestrings at Dortmund are tighter. They were close to bankruptcy in 2005 so they are carefull about the money they spend. We spend more than them but for far less success. They actually have no luxury. They take punts on players and hope it works out due to great coaching. They sign talented rejects and turn them into special footballers. Their most expensive player cost 18million euro's(they don't have anyone else on the roster that cost them 10million+). Their net spend post 2008(since Klopp took over) has been a grand total of 8million euros. Our club makes more money than theirs and is worth more too.

They might have a very large stadium but due to low ticket prices it isn't as much an advantage as it supposed to be. I'd hazard a guess that we make more money on our gate take ins.

How do they do it? Great scouting and even better coaching. It's rare that they sign a player and the player ends up declining. Oh, they also have a great development structure and actually use the players they develop.

Dortmund is going through a golden generation and everything came to plan. They will be set for years to come only because of this generation. All of a sudden Klopp is a visionary, and all the youngsters want to go to Dortmund. Why did Reus go to Dortmund and not Bayern? Reputation, even if Dortmund isn't rich. Out of necessity. Tottenham will never reach that kind of desperation or patience, 4th place and people are still bitching about not buying a new player for 20 million.

Hardworking young Germans, a willing crop of players that work together, a squad that works because everyone fits a certain philosophy, rotation is evident, players that trust their coach. And most important of all heart and hustle. What is our team except a mishmash of players that don't work half the time but when they do its brilliant?

 

[fortworthspur]

okay, I feel better about things after reading Bill's post.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Maybe for the Leandro money we can get a better striker in the summer, roll on the next game.

 

[chrissivad]

I'm sure this drum has already been beaten, but time to retire "ITKs".

no, but its time to retire you from the transfer forums.

 

[Andy]

Mustard please explain how you can disagree? If we spend more money than we have coming in we go into debt, if we keep doing so we go bankrupt. Unlike Spain the government here wont bail us out.

In the summer the first round of FFP comes into force, then we might see a better transfer market that is upset by Russian and Middle eastern billionaires.

you don't think they'll find another way around this? do you really think the FFP can't be manipulated in any way, can you honestly see the money men of both clubs standing by when they try to stop them playing in europe?
No team in Europe can afford to pay players the money city are and still be inside the FFP rules. they'll fund some other company to sponsor their shirts they'll find a way to invest their money into their clubs somehow. we all know it'll happen especially with City imo.
Chelseas spending this summer was the best part of £100m after they published their figures. they have a stadium the same size as us. now tell me they will break even after 4 games in the CL.