The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 26th August 2021

[Scouseyid]

Son accounts for 17 of those 22 FFS!
So really that’s only 5 goals between Lucas, Bergwijn and Lo Celso. Talk about stats to suit an agenda.

The point, which you’ve inadvertently made, is after Kane and Son we can barely buy a goal. A ‘backup’ to your top scorer is not your second top goal scorer who you nominally move to another position.

So! That's literally what he's there for! It's no agenda, it's simply pointing out the stupidity of the original suggestion that Chelsea have numerous great goalscorers...they don't!

We're moaning about a back up to Kane, when we have Son in the squad, who's proven himself a brilliant League, European & International goalscorer! He's literally the next best thing to Kane! He's proven that for 6 years.

Time we all stopped thinking we're too reliant on him! He's paid to score! That's why we rely on him. It's his actual job!!!

We don't over-rely on Lloris do we?

 

[Scouseyid]

We don't have the goals in Kane's absence. Lucas scores one goal in every 10 games in the PL. Son scores but the precise problem is after Son and Kane we have no other reliable goal scorers. The idea that people start naming Son as a back up to Kane, rather than a first team player in his own right is ridiculous. Son is not a back up to Kane, he is a fully fledged first 11 player who plays alongside Kane. If Kane is injured, there should be another player filling in, not moving Son out of position.

The idea of comparing our attackers to other clubs is pathetic, well erm, that is who we are competing against.

Missing the point completely!

 

[JayB]

We don't have the goals in Kane's absence. Lucas scores one goal in every 10 games in the PL. Son scores but the precise problem is after Son and Kane we have no other reliable goal scorers. The idea that people start naming Son as a back up to Kane, rather than a first team player in his own right is ridiculous. Son is not a back up to Kane, he is a fully fledged first 11 player who plays alongside Kane. If Kane is injured, there should be another player filling in, not moving Son out of position.

The idea of comparing our attackers to other clubs is pathetic, well erm, that is who we are competing against.

You're ignoring Dele here. I agree that he isn't "reliable" in that he's wildly inconsistent but it's clear to see he's being lined up to have a big role this season. That may prove to be a mistake but I think it's clear we're counting on him to chip in with goals and assists.

 

[Aphex]

You're ignoring Dele here. I agree that he isn't "reliable" in that he's wildly inconsistent but it's clear to see he's being lined up to have a big role this season. That may prove to be a mistake but I think it's clear we're counting on him to chip in with goals and assists.

Dele is an unknown quantity playing deeper. I hope he becomes a regular goal scorer though for sure, that would certainly make a difference to our prospects.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

We don't have the goals in Kane's absence. Lucas scores one goal in every 10 games in the PL. Son scores but the precise problem is after Son and Kane we have no other reliable goal scorers. The idea that people start naming Son as a back up to Kane, rather than a first team player in his own right is ridiculous. Son is not a back up to Kane, he is a fully fledged first 11 player who plays alongside Kane. If Kane is injured, there should be another player filling in, not moving Son out of position.

The idea of comparing our attackers to other clubs is pathetic, well erm, that is who we are competing against.

Let it go were not getting a striker , City won the title with 83 goals last year we scored 68. Second highest was United and Pool with 73, We got 68 playing the most boring soul destroying negative football imaginable. We scored as many as Leicester 6 more than Wham and conceded 5 fewer than Leicester and 2 less than Wham. Both still finishing above us.

We need 70+ goals this season and concede 5 fewer, Between Son and Kane that's probably 50, were looking for 20-25 more from Lucas, Steve, Dele, Gill etc. With a coach who actually coaches players and some tactics that favour attacking and scoring we get that 20-25 from the players mentioned. Don't think it will be easy but its not impossible.

We all want another striker but were not paying 50M+ for one.

 

[ProfCalculus]

Traore is still on as per herc club confident it will get done problem currently is the down payment on the deal.

 

[gavspur]

I’m currently liking this window. And I’m getting the same vibes from Nuno’s teams and performances that we got from early days Poch - but this also seems further along, with some actual world class players in their peak.
I personally think Traore would be an immense signing, he can play centrally, so in the conference league thingy, he should cause havoc against the teams we’ll be facing. Plus we know what he can do in the Prem. I think it’s a good thing. Tomiyasu I also like the look of. He seems strong, focused, and sensible.
If we can get those two in, and possibly a midfielder (not sure but I’m leaning towards a creative passer type), then that’s a pretty balanced squad, I’d say.

 

[ravo]

The signing of Sarr (albeit for the future) and ITK around hopefully other young midfielders and defenders is music to my ears. I am tired of seeing us bullied and pressed all over the park, particularly in midfield.

That said, I do think we either need another striker or are confident enough in Scarlett for him to start league cup/ECL games. I don't want Kane and Son sharing all the workload between them.

 

[Dr Know]

This flipping gripping about strikers is getting so tedious now. You said it once, so let it go and enjoy the ride. Your gripping will have no influence on who we get or dont get

I though you said grinding, I grabbed my popcorn and sat back waiting for A&C to come in lol

 

[TH1239]

It's worth remembering that Bergwijn, Moura and Dele combined for only 4 league goals last season. In the three seasons prior to this one, Dele has only scored 13 league goals. Can those three can go from scoring 4 league goals last season to 25+ goals this season? It's a big stretch in my opinion, absent Lo Celso being integrated in the place of Skipp and hitting top form as the creative outlet of the team.

 

[Azza1985]

Can we stop this debate about goal scorers! This is supposed to be about ITK, please take it else where.

 

[WOTspur]

Can we stop this debate about goal scorers! This is supposed to be about ITK, please take it else where.

Keep your hair on.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Scarlett may turn out to be great, will need time , think we’ll be ok

We can’t rely on a 17 year old to guide us through the cups when Son/Kane need a rest

 

[Dazzazzad]

It's worth remembering that Bergwijn, Moura and Dele combined for only 4 league goals last season. In the three seasons prior to this one, Dele has only scored 13 league goals. Can those three can go from scoring 4 league goals last season to 25+ goals this season? It's a big stretch in my opinion, absent Lo Celso being integrated in the place of Skipp and hitting top form as the creative outlet of the team.

Kane and Son absorb chances around the box. We're very top heavy with our distribution of goals and while we can and should improve that, if Kane and Son are playing it's probably going to remain very unbalanced.

We scored 68 goals last season, joint third. That's what matters most when talking about goals. Our issue was being unable to defend our leads.

Edit - didn't realize what thread I was in. Happy to continue in another thread if someone suggests one.

 

[Stoof]

Keep your hair on.

Hair or no hair, he’s right

 

[O'Brien]

I’m currently liking this window. And I’m getting the same vibes from Nuno’s teams and performances that we got from early days Poch - but this also seems further along, with some actual world class players in their peak.
I personally think Traore would be an immense signing, he can play centrally, so in the conference league thingy, he should cause havoc against the teams we’ll be facing. Plus we know what he can do in the Prem. I think it’s a good thing. Tomiyasu I also like the look of. He seems strong, focused, and sensible.
If we can get those two in, and possibly a midfielder (not sure but I’m leaning towards a creative passer type), then that’s a pretty balanced squad, I’d say.

“Adama is the most unique footballer to have ever played. So don’t use him conventionally. The last dribbling 10 in the prem was Sterling at Liverpool. And Lucas now shows what you can do if you run at players in the heart of the pitch. Don’t use Adama as a winger, where you know there will always be a limitation as to what he provides. Lots of dribbles, little end product

But, if you simply football to the extent where you go Adama is a freak at running at players. So if you put him central, where the goal is, he can’t be stopped. In the danger area..and if he is, Kane/Son are in good positions to pick up the pieces, not when he’s out wid

So if you simplify it, and make sure they Adama Traore drives through the middle of teams and hits the ball as hard as he can, which he’s good at, 5-10+ times a game, producing ridiculous shot numbers, he scores at least 15 goals in the league. Because he’s so unique

Now if you have this tactic and production, make sure your defence is well organised, which it is, you have cover in areas, and competent passers in midfield, and then two superstars in Kane and Son, you become the most difficult team in the league to stop

So I guess what I’m saying is, I would not sign Adama to be used as most people view him. However, if he was to be used in the way I spoke about, I 100% would sign him, because the end result could be quite exceptional…”

 

[peterballb]

Before I start, this is opinion - reaction to ITK and my take on previous comments

Very happy to see that Sarr is over the line. Potential to become a monster in the middle of the park. Having another year to develop in an environment where he is already comfortable is a great thing too.

Glad to hear that Sissoko will get minutes in a league where he has found a home. Effort has never been in question. Thanks and good luck - just not at the weekend.

Also very happy to see that there are still some irons in the fire and that all of the options seem to be ones for the here and now, while having so much future potential. Moriba, Tomiyasu and Traore, even McKennie and Aouar are all ones who can immediately better our depth while potentially developing in to world class players.

I really like what we have done, and fully expect there will be more over the line before the window closes.

On the striker discussion, there are two ways of dealing with the "Kane realities", get in a like for like player as back-up/option (Vlahovic/Weghorst type), or learn to play differently when Kane is not in the lineup. None of Son, Dele, Bergwijn, Sessegnon, Moura, Lo Celso, Gil, Scarlett can hold the ball up the way Harry does. Fact. That means we cannot be playing long balls when Kane is not in the lineup (I've always been against long balls as statistically you turn over possession more than 6 out of 10 times - and that is with a player like Kane). It just doesn't work. So you play the ball out from the back and play it in to feet. All of them can do that. Kane too. Further reality is that Kane is likely to miss games. The last three seasons we have played 58, 52 and 59 last year. Kane played parts in 40, 34 and 49 respectively. Spurs have already played 4 and will have another 44 games for sure. Assuming advancement in some/all of Carabao, Conference and FA Cups, those numbers will again see us play 50 plus games. Add National Duties and Kane will be playing an awful lot on ankles that are not getting younger.

Lots of ways to get the job done. Get Bergwijn, Dele, Lo Celso and Moura putting the ball in the net more, add a player like Traore, let players like Scarlett, Sessegnon and Gil develop, and the whole back-up striker issue becomes moot. Kane will play his share. When not, others need to get the job done, even if it means doing the job differently.

Chilin and optimistic

 

[Spurslove]

I hope things work out for Sissoko. I won't lie, I'm glad he's gone but I certainly wish him no ill fortune. He's handled himself off the pitch impeccably (unlike one of his team mates) and I hope this moves proves to benefit all parties. Thanks Moussa!

 

[loz123]

Well we did do well without Kane under Poch and we had Son lead the line. I would be a lot more concerned if Traore came in and no centre forward if Jose was still in charge. If Nuno can get us playing more on the front foot with plenty of off the ball movement it will be fine. City just won the league with no true centre forward and they don't have Kane.

Possibly so. But City have 5-6 midfield players that can produce 40-50 goals a season. Not sure we do.

 

[Kimbles]

WAKE ME UP BEFORE YOU GO GO, WHO NEEDS BALE WHEN YOU'VE GOT SISSOKO.

OK we could do with Bale again now.

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Thank you. You were our goat.
Forever in our hearts.