The club has to accept Responsibility for their Failure this window

[lifeof...]

The club has to accept Responsibility for thier Failure this window


The Responsibility and Accountability point was raised in T R section and I think, as a debrief, after this window, the club does need to look at its transfer methods, its accountability, and how it can be improved.

It is now confirmed that during the transfer window we bid for, Rossi Llorente Aguero Forlan Carroll Suarez.(poss Fab as well, though cant find an actual quote) I highlight these, as i think it demonstrates that the club agrees with the supporters in the need to improve on our current strikers. Regardless of how we as an individual feels about "how much we should pay for player x" The Club was willing to spend approx 35mill on a young player (Rossi). This demonstrates we had the money, the intent, and the "willing to risk factor".

Not getting a striker, means they have failed in their objective. And it can only be looked at as a total failure. I am not into the "blame culture" But it is fair to expect that the Club, and i say the club, rather then individual/s names, as there are several pieces to the jigsaw that results in a player signed, (board, management team, scouts etc) TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR FAILURE. i do not mean to us fans, but within themselves.

We were "scrabbling around" using a "scatter gun" approach, are a couple of often repeated comments...another way of saying this, is re-active, should we not be pro-active?

Buying a player is not unlike "head hunting" something i have been on both sides of the coin of, when you head hunt, you "'court" them, you entice them, you "sell" the dream. Now whilst this cannot be done overtly, (prem rules) it is impossible to believe that players don't talk, agents don't talk, And as far as i am aware, clubs can only not approach the player, with out consent, they can however talk to said players agent, even if it is covertly.

IMO we need to stop being so re-active, as i our main approach, our main methodology should be pro-active (e.g Modric), with a structure in place to be re-active WHEN required (e.g VDV)

Our Scouting system need to be looked at, for example, as someone else pointed out earlier, If Carroll was H's No1 target, why did we not sign Carroll 1-2 seasons ago? The same could be said for most of the players we were bidding for as well, Im sure there are other as well.

For those of you that feel buying a players isn't "as easy as that" etc. I have to say you are wrong, if proper planning (the 6 P’s), direction, parameters and agreed remit are done. Players can be identified / scouted and covertly head hunted any time in the year. Clubs can be approached / sounded out any time of the year. Then come Window time the negotiation starts. The time frame does not need to be protracted, We can set it ourselves. We do that with a level of honesty to ourselves. Fine offer low to start. But have an agreed max, prior to starting. We do not need to buy 10 players any more, little juggling is required. Set ourselves a time limit, a few days, If we cannot get the player at the agreed max, move on. it is really that simple.

For a minute forget about how you feel about these two players. Carroll and Rossi.

I am pretty certain it has been confirmed that Carroll was H's no1 target. He was sold to Pool, for around 35 mil. Its has been confirmed we bid about the same amount for Rossi........So we were willing to pay 35mil for a young striker that you could not say is a "proven Marque" striker....same could be said for Carroll...So why did we not get to that in week one of transfer window, with Carroll? (Whilst it can not be proven, 27mil would have probably done it) If we felt Carroll wasn’t “worth’ that amount but Rossi was, Why Again wasn’t this reached in week 1?

The Club Demonstrated, by their actions, the need for a “top ‘striker” to be brought this window. They FAILED to achieve it. It is pointless laying blame, as equally it is important that the club don’t “blame” x player / club wanting to much etc” What they need to do is except the responsibility for the failure. Analysis where they went wrong, AND ensure it doesn’t happen again.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

The issue is much deeper than the one you highlight. Call me cynical but I don't believe the club tried to sign a marquee striker this window. If they had really tried then the bids would have been made much earlier. They made a series of scatter gun bids on the last day so they could tell us that they tried safe in the knowledge none would be accepted by the selling clubs when they had no chance to replace. The proof of this will come on July 1, will we return with 35-40m bids for Aguero, Rossi or Llorente on the first day of the next window when they might be accepted ? Hell no.

There is a fairly significant lack of ambition somewhere at the club, what we don't know is whether that is the chairman being unwilling to pay fees or wages or the manager unwilling to put his neck on the line.

 

[lifeof...]

The issue is much deeper than the one you highlight. Call me cynical but I don't believe the club tried to sign a marquee striker this window. If they had really tried then the bids would have been made much earlier. They made a series of scatter gun bids on the last day so they could tell us that they tried safe in the knowledge none would be accepted by the selling clubs when they had no chance to replace. The proof of this will come on July 1, will we return with 35-40m bids for Aguero, Rossi or Llorente on the first day of the next window when they might be accepted ? Hell no.

There is a fairly significant lack of ambition somewhere at the club, what we don't know is whether that is the chairman being unwilling to pay fees or wages or the manager unwilling to put his neck on the line.

Re the Highlighted bit, i just find hard to belive, i guess i am not cynical

If in a few days, in Levy open letter, he effectively tries to tell us, as you say, i will see it more as him failing to accept responsibility, himself and on behalf of the club for "their" failure.

However I don't agree, it signifies a lack of ambition somewhere. We have recently moved in to a new playing field, dining at the top table so to speak. It appears that perhaps our planning strategy for this is some what missing.

 

[Stoof]

You have to agree a fee with the club. You have to agree wages and other payments with the player. You have to agree fees with agents.

Why is everyone simplifying what is ultimately a complicated multi-million pound asset sale and purchase?

You know how many weeks people work on these things if it's a commercial property or a company? Just because it's a footballer and there's been a spate of football management games that let you select your bid, select your wages and you're done with it (with not a lot of financial accountability) doesn't make this process any less strenuous or complicated in real life.

From a point of "accepting responsibility" - the board has responsibility in the direction of its shareholders. Buying an asset has to be a prudent move in both footballing terms, obviously, but to shareholders the financial aspect matters.

The club haven't brought a striker in - yet most people seem to want to blame things from our side - when to me it seems that, if the proposed selling club doesn't want to part with their asset then there can be absolutely zero blame attached to us. And from what I can tell, that's pretty much been the case.

How many of you would have been happy to part with the amount of money Liverpool did for Carroll? It would be plastered all over this forum: "HOW MUCH?!?".

And as soon as things wouldn't go right, the murmurs from the stands would be in relation to money (in the same way they were towards Darren Bent).

Sometimes I think a lot of Spurs fans don't really know what they want.

 

[lifeof...]

You have to agree a fee with the club. You have to agree wages and other payments with the player. You have to agree fees with agents.

Why is everyone simplifying what is ultimately a complicated multi-million pound asset sale and purchase?

You know how many weeks people work on these things if it's a commercial property or a company? Just because it's a footballer and there's been a spate of football management games that let you select your bid, select your wages and you're done with it (with not a lot of financial accountability) doesn't make this process any less strenuous or complicated in real life.

From a point of "accepting responsibility" - the board has responsibility in the direction of its shareholders. Buying an asset has to be a prudent move in both footballing terms, obviously, but to shareholders the financial aspect matters.

The club haven't brought a striker in - yet most people seem to want to blame things from our side - when to me it seems that, if the proposed selling club doesn't want to part with their asset then there can be absolutely zero blame attached to us. And from what I can tell, that's pretty much been the case.

How many of you would have been happy to part with the amount of money Liverpool did for Carroll? It would be plastered all over this forum: "HOW MUCH?!?".

And as soon as things wouldn't go right, the murmurs from the stands would be in relation to money (in the same way they were towards Darren Bent).

Sometimes I think a lot of Spurs fans don't really know what they want.

firstly, just because it is a multi mil deal does not automatically equal protracted, as i said "they" have all year to "work on it"

secondly as point in case, how long did Suarez, Carroll, Torres take....All multi mill deals. or infact our signing of VDV, or last minute bid for Adam, It is not the level of complication, it is the level of competence

I am, and sure several other, are not children or un-knowledgeably on business matter. and therefore, do not need Stoof "idiots guide" on the football business world, especially when there are 3 clear examples in the last 36hours? which factually ruin your point.

On accepting Responsibility...having tabled a bid for approx 35 mil, your point is not really relevant, As we have to assume all of your points have being accepted as ok to spend.

I purposely pointed out, that it wasn't about blame, which you seem to ignore to make your point. The clubs action, quite convincing imo, point to the clubs desire to buy a 'top striker" to the tune of approx 35mill, , if necessary. They totally failed to achieve that, it is easy to blame the selling club, the players wage demand etc, well anything other than 'yourself" However it is smarter to accept the responsibility of failure, blame yourself if you like. And look at how you stop it happening again. and as i tried to point out, i mean the whole process. There is, in essence nothing wrong in failing, as long as you learn by it and improve from it, this can only happen when you actually accept responsibility for it.

I don't disagree with your comments regarding "what the fans think" but when has it ever being possible to please all of the people all of the time.

and what is wrong with the club, looking in at themselves, and saying, "you know we could have done better" and actually doing something about that?

If you feel, the club did, "everything they could" Did 'everything very well" and "could have done nothing better" from their dealing point of view(rather than selected targets as that is P.O) fair enough, i just happen to disagree, so put my thoughts on here


Edit: just to add...What us fans think about "how much" if we had signed Carroll or even Rossi is not to the point. Whilst the re-action may be true. The club signified the willingness to spend 35mil, on a young player. What we feel (about price for player) is not relevant, what the club felt is, and what the club felt was that they were willing to "risk" 35 mil on a young striker who is not currently a proven marque striker. Having established that fact. We Failed to achieve

 

[Twizzle]

You have to agree a fee with the club. You have to agree wages and other payments with the player. You have to agree fees with agents.

Why is everyone simplifying what is ultimately a complicated multi-million pound asset sale and purchase?

You know how many weeks people work on these things if it's a commercial property or a company? Just because it's a footballer and there's been a spate of football management games that let you select your bid, select your wages and you're done with it (with not a lot of financial accountability) doesn't make this process any less strenuous or complicated in real life.

From a point of "accepting responsibility" - the board has responsibility in the direction of its shareholders. Buying an asset has to be a prudent move in both footballing terms, obviously, but to shareholders the financial aspect matters.

The club haven't brought a striker in - yet most people seem to want to blame things from our side - when to me it seems that, if the proposed selling club doesn't want to part with their asset then there can be absolutely zero blame attached to us. And from what I can tell, that's pretty much been the case.

How many of you would have been happy to part with the amount of money Liverpool did for Carroll? It would be plastered all over this forum: "HOW MUCH?!?".

And as soon as things wouldn't go right, the murmurs from the stands would be in relation to money (in the same way they were towards Darren Bent).

Sometimes I think a lot of Spurs fans don't really know what they want.

no doubt its more complicated than meets the eye but are you happy with mediocrity or slipping out of the 4 like we have

no matter how complicated it is, top 4 clubs can do it, we cant

says it all really

 

[whatsappnin]

The issue is much deeper than the one you highlight. Call me cynical but I don't believe the club tried to sign a marquee striker this window. If they had really tried then the bids would have been made much earlier. They made a series of scatter gun bids on the last day so they could tell us that they tried safe in the knowledge none would be accepted by the selling clubs when they had no chance to replace. The proof of this will come on July 1, will we return with 35-40m bids for Aguero, Rossi or Llorente on the first day of the next window when they might be accepted ? Hell no.

There is a fairly significant lack of ambition somewhere at the club, what we don't know is whether that is the chairman being unwilling to pay fees or wages or the manager unwilling to put his neck on the line.

:clap::clap::clap:

\\\\i think we are about to be sold, thats why the money was not spent. AEG

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

To me (outside looking in) it looked a little like the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Harry often said publicly that he didn't know what Levy was up to, and that's a bit worrying.

Whether there's anything behind it (about to be sold? haven't heard any rumours?.... Harry and Levy having a lover's tiff?) I dunno.

Considering where we are in the league and the Champions League the wind has been knocked from our sales and it's only the beginning of February!

I don't know about anyone else but I'm desperately in need of a BBLG "BELIEVE!!" thread! Bring it back fella, bring it back!

 

[Phate]

I genuinely don't think there was going to be alot spent in this window. If anything the money was earmarked for the summer but chelski decided their position was perilous and splashed big time. We tried to respond with too little time to do anything. Everyone knows the january window is the place for desperation as we showed a couple years ago. Villa were desperate, chelski were desperate and following events liverpool became desperate, after securing a partner for torres they then needed a replacement.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

The problem with waiting for the summer is we will have slipped out of the top 4 places... losing our supposed "Top Top Player Magnetic" of the Champions League which hasn't really helped us, has it?!

 

[lifeof...]

To me (outside looking in) it looked a little like the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Harry often said publicly that he didn't know what Levy was up to, and that's a bit worrying.

Whether there's anything behind it (about to be sold? haven't heard any rumours?.... Harry and Levy having a lover's tiff?) I dunno.

Considering where we are in the league and the Champions League the wind has been knocked from our sales and it's only the beginning of February!

I don't know about anyone else but I'm desperately in need of a BBLG "BELIEVE!!" thread! Bring it back fella, bring it back!

Obviously we cant really know on the "inside" But clearly something is not right, this needs to established and therefore needs to be resolved

I genuinely don't think there was going to be alot spent in this window. If anything the money was earmarked for the summer but chelski decided their position was perilous and splashed big time. We tried to respond with too little time to do anything. Everyone knows the january window is the place for desperation as we showed a couple years ago. Villa were desperate, chelski were desperate and following events liverpool became desperate, after securing a partner for torres they then needed a replacement.

Re-highlighted, Was it not reported early on "if special" "willing to spend big if"

the rest, i agree that it potentially quickly changed the playing field, having said that, it would be poor planning not to have a plan in place for such eventuality, as it happens with reasonable occurrence

 

[Samson]

The club has to accept Responsibility for thier Failure this window


The Responsibility and Accountability point was raised in T R section and I think, as a debrief, after this window, the club does need to look at its transfer methods, its accountability, and how it can be improved.

It is now confirmed that during the transfer window we bid for, Rossi Llorente Aguero Forlan Carroll Suarez.(poss Fab as well, though cant find an actual quote) I highlight these, as i think it demonstrates that the club agrees with the supporters in the need to improve on our current strikers. Regardless of how we as an individual feels about "how much we should pay for player x" The Club was willing to spend approx 35mill on a young player (Rossi). This demonstrates we had the money, the intent, and the "willing to risk factor".

Not getting a striker, means they have failed in their objective. And it can only be looked at as a total failure. I am not into the "blame culture" But it is fair to expect that the Club, and i say the club, rather then individual/s names, as there are several pieces to the jigsaw that results in a player signed, (board, management team, scouts etc) TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR FAILURE. i do not mean to us fans, but within themselves.

We were "scrabbling around" using a "scatter gun" approach, are a couple of often repeated comments...another way of saying this, is re-active, should we not be pro-active?

Buying a player is not unlike "head hunting" something i have been on both sides of the coin of, when you head hunt, you "'court" them, you entice them, you "sell" the dream. Now whilst this cannot be done overtly, (prem rules) it is impossible to believe that players don't talk, agents don't talk, And as far as i am aware, clubs can only not approach the player, with out consent, they can however talk to said players agent, even if it is covertly.

IMO we need to stop being so re-active, as i our main approach, our main methodology should be pro-active (e.g Modric), with a structure in place to be re-active WHEN required (e.g VDV)

Our Scouting system need to be looked at, for example, as someone else pointed out earlier, If Carroll was H's No1 target, why did we not sign Carroll 1-2 seasons ago? The same could be said for most of the players we were bidding for as well, Im sure there are other as well.

For those of you that feel buying a players isn't "as easy as that" etc. I have to say you are wrong, if proper planning (the 6 P’s), direction, parameters and agreed remit are done. Players can be identified / scouted and covertly head hunted any time in the year. Clubs can be approached / sounded out any time of the year. Then come Window time the negotiation starts. The time frame does not need to be protracted, We can set it ourselves. We do that with a level of honesty to ourselves. Fine offer low to start. But have an agreed max, prior to starting. We do not need to buy 10 players any more, little juggling is required. Set ourselves a time limit, a few days, If we cannot get the player at the agreed max, move on. it is really that simple.

For a minute forget about how you feel about these two players. Carroll and Rossi.

I am pretty certain it has been confirmed that Carroll was H's no1 target. He was sold to Pool, for around 35 mil. Its has been confirmed we bid about the same amount for Rossi........So we were willing to pay 35mil for a young striker that you could not say is a "proven Marque" striker....same could be said for Carroll...So why did we not get to that in week one of transfer window, with Carroll? (Whilst it can not be proven, 27mil would have probably done it) If we felt Carroll wasn’t “worth’ that amount but Rossi was, Why Again wasn’t this reached in week 1?

The Club Demonstrated, by their actions, the need for a “top ‘striker” to be brought this window. They FAILED to achieve it. It is pointless laying blame, as equally it is important that the club don’t “blame” x player / club wanting to much etc” What they need to do is except the responsibility for the failure. Analysis where they went wrong, AND ensure it doesn’t happen again.

We signed a 6 foot 7 inches English striker 1-2 years ago, Peter Crouch. If our scouts had recommended that we sign Andy Carroll instead, would "H" have accepted the recommendation?

Harry wants proven players. Nothign wrong with that, but much harder to find than a promising left-back, say.

 

[lifeof...]

We signed a 6 foot 7 inches English striker 1-2 years ago, Peter Crouch. If our scouts had recommended that we sign Andy Carroll instead, would "H" have accepted the recommendation?

Harry wants proven players. Nothign wrong with that, but much harder to find than a promising left-back, say.

Well he could have signed both couldn't he? The point was more, if we are more trying to un-earth the next Berbs etc, rather than a "proven top striker".....Why haven't we signed several young potentials, over the last 2/3 windows? what are the scouts doing etc? the question was semi rhetorical?

 

[Phate]

That special player didn't seem to be available, i agree that i think levy would've gone all out for one but teams are so reluctant to sell unless it's absolute crazy money in january or the player wants to leave. I fully expect us to keep our squad and add real quality in the summer. 4th maybe too much but after chelsea buying torres would paying crazy money for 1 player really make that much difference.

 

[Yid-ol]

If we dont get the bid accepted how are we meant to get a player? we were bidding stupid money on some players, 24 million on Carrol... not worth the 35 Liverpool paid.... Harry has said we were after Rossi for 35 million and it got rejected!

We could throw really stupid money at players like clubs have done in this window but that would IMO hurt the club more than being sensible and only buying if the player matches the price we would pay.

If you went into a shop and seen something you want, offered to pay the amount it is worth for the person in the store to then say nope i wont sell for that (just like Aguaro and us meeting his release clause) you wont then go and say right how about i pay over the top for it to get it? i woldnt, i would go away and look for something else... we just keeped getting the same response ...No one wanted to sell there top players that we wanted. If someone came in for Bale we would do the same, not the clubs fault IMO just was a bad window and i am sure will be looking towards the next window already

 

[Phate]

If we dont get the bid accepted how are we meant to get a player? we were bidding stupid money on some players, 24 million on Carrol... not worth the 35 Liverpool paid.... Harry has said we were after Rossi for 35 million and it got rejected!

We could throw really stupid money at players like clubs have done in this window but that would IMO hurt the club more than being sensible and only buying if the player matches the price we would pay.

If you went into a shop and seen something you want, offered to pay the amount it is worth for the person in the store to then say nope i wont sell for that (just like Aguaro and us meeting his release clause) you wont then go and say right how about i pay over the top for it to get it? i woldnt, i would go away and look for something else... we just keeped getting the same response ...No one wanted to sell there top players that we wanted. If someone came in for Bale we would do the same, not the clubs fault IMO just was a bad window and i am sure will be looking towards the next window already

This

 

[lifeof...]

That special player didn't seem to be available, i agree that i think levy would've gone all out for one but teams are so reluctant to sell unless it's absolute crazy money in january or the player wants to leave. I fully expect us to keep our squad and add real quality in the summer. 4th maybe too much but after chelsea buying torres would paying crazy money for 1 player really make that much difference.

ok, try this........for a second, forget about what you feel about different players...ok?

now except the fact we bid approx 35 mil for a striker.

in doing that accept the fact that the club deemed it, worth it, and it would make the difference.

now try to accept the fact, we failed, we have failed in this for at least 2 windows. try to accept the fact we failed, where Liverpool succeeded ( again, a reminder forget how you feel about individual players still)

remind yourself about the fact we were willing to spend 35 mill......

Then ask yourself, should we not look at ourselves? question ourselves on how we are going about the business of securing players? ask could we do better? Ask did we succeed in our objective, or fail....Ask how we can do better.....this is really what i feel the club should ask themselves.

 

[Yid-ol]

ok, try this........for a second, forget about what you feel about different players...ok?

now except the fact we bid approx 35 mil for a striker.

in doing that accept the fact that the club deemed it, worth it, and it would make the difference.

now try to accept the fact, we failed, we have failed in this for at least 2 windows. try to accept the fact we failed, where Liverpool succeeded ( again, a reminder forget how you feel about individual players still)

remind yourself about the fact we were willing to spend 35 mill......

Then ask yourself, should we not look at ourselves? question ourselves on how we are going about the business of securing players? ask could we do better? Ask did we succeed in our objective, or fail....Ask how we can do better.....this is really what i feel the club should ask themselves.

What was the clubs objective? do you know this?? i doubt it

my guess would be that they were looking for players (in any position) that would improve the squad... not setting there sights on just one position because quite frankly that would just be retarded. If we cant find a player that improves our team from what we have that would also FIT INTO OUR SYSTEM AND TEAM then we dont buy them, even if they are better than what we have they have to be the right player and some players that moved didnt fit into that second part.

Tell me this... how do you get a player for a sensible price when the clubs wont sell them?

 

[Woland]

Utter BS.

Transfer window success is measured by actual RESULTS within the playing season.
You don't add points to the table for transfer activity.

'Responsibility', oh... *facepalm*

 

[Phate]

You're right, liverpool did succeed in getting their players. Transfers generally take more than 48 hours and the club do need to look at how we embarrassed ourselves in the last 2 days but i still maintain it was kneejerk because of chelski's late signings which probably took weeks to put in place. We did fail this window but it was more in hope and panic