The beginning of the end...

[shelfboy68]

You can't compare because Poch has never been given years with unlimited resources, he'd have won the league 100% if he'd been at City with the same backing Pep has had, even if I think Pep is the better coach.

I haven't even mentioned money simply the coaching ability you saw how city played against us the speed in closing down and attack was night and day, our team looked like we had been given sleeping pills on another day we would have lost by 6/7 compare that to the shit we serve up.

 

[Gb160]

You can't compare because Poch has never been given years with unlimited resources, he'd have won the league 100% if he'd been at City with the same backing Pep has had, even if I think Pep is the better coach.

Exactly, even that corpse thing at West Ham won the league with city...never won anything before he went there, or after he left.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Agree peps coaching ability far exceeds poch simply can't compare.

One thing in Pochs favour that he did realize that our style had to change (I'm not sure if that was before we bought Ndombele or after)
But in any case he hasn't had time to try it out very much and with NDombele injured, still couldn't even with Newcastle.
To switch to a more direct style is a good idea as for the longest time war of attrition football gets a bit chock a block as space dries up.
NDombele is key though.
Changing the style takes time to meld it in and the defence can get a bit more vulnerable too as we push forward.
I'm looking forward to that as getting through defences has been a problem for us often with or without Eriksen as we moved up the field with shorter passing.
I hope Poch sticks to his idea of more direct routes to goal

 

[Spursfan1414]

I haven't even mentioned money simply the coaching ability you saw how city played against us the speed in closing down and attack was night and day, our team looked like we had been given sleeping pills on another day we would have lost by 6/7 compare that to the shit we serve up.

But you're basing your judgement of his coaching ability on how well City play, and that is also a product of the resources that Pep has had, you can't separate the two whether you mention money or not.

 

[Wadec]

I haven't even mentioned money simply the coaching ability you saw how city played against us the speed in closing down and attack was night and day, our team looked like we had been given sleeping pills on another day we would have lost by 6/7 compare that to the shit we serve up.

Exactly! Can you imagine Pep's teams underperforming three games in a row?

Even in the game against us, he hooked Aguero to try and change the game. We constantly have the same players doing the same things hoping for different results.

 

[Coco-1101]

Not sure about that pep and klopp play much more progressive football than poch it makes them much more devastating than our boring shit, unlike klopp poch won't win a CL final for us that was his moment but poor team selection and a unmotivated team did for him.

klopp won it in 3rd attempt.

 

[shelfboy68]

Exactly, even that corpse thing at West Ham won the league with city...never won anything before he went there, or after he left.

Think he won a trophy at malaga didn't he although might be wrong

 

[Coco-1101]

I haven't even mentioned money simply the coaching ability you saw how city played against us the speed in closing down and attack was night and day, our team looked like we had been given sleeping pills on another day we would have lost by 6/7 compare that to the shit we serve up.

Is that squad equivalent to ours in talent? you implies that he is doing all that things with burnly squad.

 

[jolegend]

To be fair not many coaches are anywhere close to Pep

You are right. Not matching up to Pep isn’t a criticism of Poch.

 

[Coco-1101]

Exactly! Can you imagine Pep's teams underperforming three games in a row?

Even in the game against us, he hooked Aguero to try and change the game. We constantly have the same players doing the same things hoping for different results.

But pep has world class players in every position even on the bench. Ours or mostly 2 or 3 at that level. They looks good due to poch.

 

[Gb160]

Think he won a trophy at malaga didn't he although might be wrong

In Europe he'd only won the Intertoto cup with Villareal, which is shit.

 

[rossdapep]

I know it's easy to tag Pep with the unlimited resources and teams he has managed line. However he is the best coach I have ever witnessed, the way his teams perform and the levels his players achieve and consistently break their previous best is phenomenal.

Look at Sterling, he is ruthless and his numbers rival Kane, Salah and anyone in the league. Imagine what he could do with some of our players.

I do become baffled when people state Pep is overrated and had it easy. If anyone has ever watched videos of him coaching they'll know that he is a phenomenal coach. He's transformed every team he's coached and elevated them to another level, neither Barca or Bayern have been anywhere close to that standard since.

However we need to be careful here because it won't be long before some start to state Poch is overrated and we start stripping every positive thing he's ever done for us. Poch is a younger coach than both Pep and Klopp, therefore he's going to be behind on alot of aspects. They both won titles relatively early in their careers which helped them to understand what it takes and take that confidence with them.

 

[shelfboy68]

In Europe he'd only won the Intertoto cup with Villareal, which is shit.

Well I suppose he is level with poch he won the Audi cup.

 

[shelfboy68]

Is that squad equivalent to ours in talent? you implies that he is doing all that things with burnly squad.

Our team should be doing better than the current form and stats show its very poor.

 

[Wadec]

But pep has world class players in every position even on the bench. Ours or mostly 2 or 3 at that level. They looks good due to poch.

I agree he has world class players, however each and everyone of them he had improved and coached to the tiniest detail. This is what makes them such a great team.

 

[shelfboy68]

One thing in Pochs favour that he did realize that our style had to change (I'm not sure if that was before we bought Ndombele or after)
But in any case he hasn't had time to try it out very much and with NDombele injured, still couldn't even with Newcastle.
To switch to a more direct style is a good idea as for the longest time war of attrition football gets a bit chock a block as space dries up.
NDombele is key though.
Changing the style takes time to meld it in and the defence can get a bit more vulnerable too as we push forward.
I'm looking forward to that as getting through defences has been a problem for us often with or without Eriksen as we moved up the field with shorter passing.
I hope Poch sticks to his idea of more direct routes to goal

Only been injured for one game mate and we had more than enough to have beaten Newcastle

 

[Coco-1101]

I agree he has world class players, however each and everyone of them he had improved and coached to the tiniest detail. This is what makes them such a great team.

The same poch did. The difference is he signed players already a bit better level and improve them while ours are from the bargain bins. This summer was better. Do you think that if poch has the same TWs like this one in all season he wouldn't have done better.
Check the transfer market and you will find that pep has spent double or bit more in less than half time than poch. Thats the difference.

 

[Lighty64]

It's true we typically start slow under Poch, although last season was good points wise, even if we did lose bad games.

The problem however, is that if we have aspirations of winning titles, we have to come flying out of the traps. The fact that we never do that under Poch is a worry in itself as you have to ask the question "When will we ever start strongly?".

Instead Poch grumbles, says we are far off from where we need to be. Imagine you are a player who wants to win stuff badly and you hear that again. You're going to start to think "Does this guy really believe in us?"

What I can't understand is how can Poch go to Southampton midseason and have them applying this intense pressing game from day 1. Yet with us he needs a preseason and 2 months or so? Yes, things take time and systems need to be worked on but he's essentially working with the same group of players. He could at least have had them pressing hard on Sunday. That's the bear minimum.

That goal came about because we'd dropped deep and let Newcastle come forward with the ball. Watch City or Liverpool at home, no chance they'll let Newcastle do that.

So that stirs the question. Did Poch tell them to drop? Or did they drop as they're no longer listening to him?

Same thing against City, the players were making the same defensive mistakes over and over. If they had the intensity and focus they'd have sorted that out quickly.

Our lack of creativity is a massive issue but our lack of intensity is a fundamental issue.

why Liverpool let Norwich do it, but as I said in an earlier reply to you Liverpool haven't had 10 men sit behind the ball.

our pressing from the start of matches has died down since we started playing CL as with the EL we could rotate, and we seem to press in the 2nd half of a match more often. think Poch is doing this to avoid burnout with us now also playing on a bigger pitch compared to the old WHL.

the last 2 seasons we have gone further in domestic cups, and also got past the group stage of the CL. we have also tried to make sure we also qualified in the top4 as CL in the new stadium was always the hope. last season we suffered burnout, only Man City played more games then us, with a much deeper squad, and a lot less in injuries, they where also the only ones that had as many players involved in the WC. this is not FM where the players are fully fit from the start whether it's a Euro's or WC summer.

we also no longer player with a proper DM, and not being funny but Sunday we still never had our strongest team out, and I'd expect Poch with the worry of this Sunday coming and the temperature on the day didn't want players over exerting to pick up a knock because of Arsenal. unfortunately it backfired yet on another day we could of had 2 pens, the Son 1 was a lot closer to being one on 2nd viewing. had we got that then we might of not had this thread at all

 

[Primativ]

Pep and Klopp are a level above Poch, they've proved it. Poch is still young, but he keeps being the bridesmaid never the bride. Klopp has lost a few finals before, but he's also won lots of trophies too. Poch has had opportunities to win trophies. I argued this point 2 - 3 years ago about Poch needs to get over the line and having doubts about him, and here we are, 2019 and still not happening.

I think concerns are justified. I want nothing more than for Poch to win a trophy with us but my doubts about him are now as big as ever.

 

[shelfboy68]

I agree he has world class players, however each and everyone of them he had improved and coached to the tiniest detail. This is what makes them such a great team.

Exactly would pep allow his players to have a record like ours over the last 15 games answer is no chance not ever.