The beginning of the end...

[King of Otters]

I’m really not that fearful of Pochettino leaving. It’s s completely different situation to had we not had the stadium. Yes he’s done a good job. You simply can’t say great as he’s won nothing. And it’s ridiculous to think there aren’t quality managers out there that could do just as good if not better. We are now perceived as one of the top 8 clubs in Europe. As long as the financial package was correct I’d say we could get any manager we want as long as they aren’t tied in.

Utd have every advantage going for them in terms of appointing new managers, but it hasn’t stopped them making one catastrophic appointment after another since Fergie left.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[coys200]

Utd have every advantage going for them in terms of appointing new managers, but it hasn’t stopped them making one catastrophic appointment after another since Fergie left.

Careful what you wish for.

Completely true. On the other hand Klopp was a fantastic appointment for Liverpool. And a zillion other clubs have made great managerial appointments over the years. Who knows if we’d be better or worse. The weird thing about Pochettino is he may only truly be judged on his time at Spurs by what he does in his next job. If he did fail they’d be a very interesting debate to be had if he just got lucky with a great group of players. Of course if he succeeds it would just reinforce his work here.

 

[guiltyparty]

Has anybody posted this article anywhere from Miguel Delaney?

I wanted to put it on the front page but couldn't see how you do it these days. Fascinating insight from Delaney. Asks all the right questions about the current state of things and poses some intriguing potential answers. Staleness is definitely something I'm seeing right now in our play, and have for a while actually, which is why Ndombele & GLC starting ASAP is crucial IMO.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...window-eriksen-vs-arsenal-derby-a9082976.html

FYI - Delaney appeared to be the closest to the Dybala story when that was rumbling on during deadline day. He's chief football writer for the independent and appears to have solid info surrounding the club.

All sounds pretty plausible

 

[NEVILLEB]

I wish you would go and support another club. Managers great, players are great, stadium is great, negative moaning "supporters" dragging us down.

Why would you spend your time on a forum if you can’t tolerate people having a different opinion to your own?

 

[Gassin's finest]

This thread will be long forgotten come the end of October.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

This thread will be long forgotten come the end of October.

One way or another

 

[Shadydan]

This thread will be long forgotten come the end of October.

Don't know about that, it has potential bump material either way

 

[Gassin's finest]

Don't know about that, it has potential bump material either way

Behave yourself

 

[nailsy]

hertyid:

Poch has not fallen out with Levy. Far from it.



Poch has not lost the dressing room. There has been some difference of opinion apparently but Poch always valued strong opinions, especially from senior pros. Kane spends countless hours in Poch's office discussing tactics. Jan is probably the most vocal member of the squad. Poch has never had issue with this.

NOW> Opinion.

Poch has seemed distracted for some months now, probably going back to February. I don't know why. He is clearly deeply rooted in our club and he feels that this is his project, his baby. So to say he doesn't care or has moved on emotionally/mentally is wrong. But something is up. I remember seeing him the day after the CL Final and he was visibly upset. Not just for himself but for the club, for his players, for the fans. But at the same time we have seen elements of Poch we don't like going all the way back to him losing it at Burnley, his comments about maybe leaving if we win the CL, his negative attitude towards the transfer window etc. It's not the Poch we know and it's not doing him or us any favours. DL went out on a limb and secured the players he wanted this summer, almost bagging Dybala in the process. So there can't be any doubt that he has been backed, or that the DL/MP partnership has deteriorated in any way. I don't know what's going on, I don't know MP and I don't know his family, I don't know most of the players. I just hope that whatever is going on, he can get back on the horse and lead us back to the form we showed in 2016/2017/2018 because really, one CL run aside, 2019 has been miserable.

Thanks for posting this Dov.

Didn't Levy and Poch also go on a holiday together again this summer? It would seem like an odd thing to do if they had a strained relationship. As HY says Levy delivered his three targets this summer so he can't really blame him for not backing him this summer.

I can't believe that he's lost the dressing room either. Not months after getting to the Champions League final. I can believe it might be an unhappy dressing room at the moment though. Dropping Jan, Rose being told he can go, Moura not playing in the final, the Eriksen situation, Wanyama, and just the general disappointment in losing the biggest game there is at club level could all add up to a negative atmosphere.

I think the staleness that's been mentioned in one or two articles is also a factor. Hopefully that could change soon as we could have a starting line up soon that includes Sess at LB, either KWP or Foyth at RB and Lo Celso and Ndombele in midfield. That's almost half the outfield players switched from last season.

There's definitely something wrong with Poch though. It could be burn out. It could be that he doesn't like press conferences (he tried to avoid them at Southampton) and has run out of patience, but he's so grumpy these days. And stubborn. Something needs to change to get the best out of the players on the pitch and I'm not sure he's ready to admit that what we're trying at the moment doesn't do that.

 

[danielneeds]

I’m really not that fearful of Pochettino leaving. It’s s completely different situation to had we not had the stadium. Yes he’s done a good job. You simply can’t say great as he’s won nothing. And it’s ridiculous to think there aren’t quality managers out there that could do just as good if not better. We are now perceived as one of the top 8 clubs in Europe. As long as the financial package was correct I’d say we could get any manager we want as long as they aren’t tied in.

I actually think there's a dearth of really talented managers who are just below that breakthrough level should Poch go next summer. I think ideally you want someone who's experienced, had a little success, but is just below that superstar status. Those are the managers that tend to go on a run of trophies. I wouldn't really know where we should go should it come to pass.

 

[WiganSpur]

Has anybody posted this article anywhere from Miguel Delaney?

I wanted to put it on the front page but couldn't see how you do it these days. Fascinating insight from Delaney. Asks all the right questions about the current state of things and poses some intriguing potential answers. Staleness is definitely something I'm seeing right now in our play, and have for a while actually, which is why Ndombele & GLC starting ASAP is crucial IMO.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...window-eriksen-vs-arsenal-derby-a9082976.html

FYI - Delaney appeared to be the closest to the Dybala story when that was rumbling on during deadline day. He's chief football writer for the independent and appears to have solid info surrounding the club.

Interesting article but not sure i'm in agreement with the argument. Last season you could certainly make an argument for things going stale. But there's been a significant change in personnel this season with the younger players in addition to the new signings. Things have been freshened up.

I think it's more likely a bit of burnout making Poch not quite the same motivator at the moment. People forget how hard being an elite level coach is. Of course Klopp has been speaking about taking a sabbatical too.

I'm just hoping he's not losing any grip of the dressing room as that is what is critical.

 

[Dougal]

Obviously we need to go for Guardiola or Klopp as they’re the only Managers who won the trophies Poch should have won last season. Everyone else failed like Poch. That said, both failed to win the trophies the other won. So both have failed.


I’m so confused right now.

 

[DJS]

Has anybody posted this article anywhere from Miguel Delaney?

I wanted to put it on the front page but couldn't see how you do it these days. Fascinating insight from Delaney. Asks all the right questions about the current state of things and poses some intriguing potential answers. Staleness is definitely something I'm seeing right now in our play, and have for a while actually, which is why Ndombele & GLC starting ASAP is crucial IMO.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...window-eriksen-vs-arsenal-derby-a9082976.html

FYI - Delaney appeared to be the closest to the Dybala story when that was rumbling on during deadline day. He's chief football writer for the independent and appears to have solid info surrounding the club.

I think the article makes a very good point in that we’ve gone a bit stale and that is down to poor manage,ent from both Poch and Levy.

But I am quite hopeful that the introduction of our three new boys fully fit will freshen up and invigorate the squad.

Ndombele has already shown some class in that engine room, Lo Celso should give us added creativity so not solely reliant on a Eriksen (if he stays) and Sessegnon has pace to burn and brings some added youth to squad.

 

[Jody]

I actually think there's a dearth of really talented managers who are just below that breakthrough level should Poch go next summer. I think ideally you want someone who's experienced, had a little success, but is just below that superstar status. Those are the managers that tend to go on a run of trophies. I wouldn't really know where we should go should it come to pass.

Nuno?

 

[SpartanSpur]

Interesting article but not sure i'm in agreement with the argument. Last season you could certainly make an argument for things going stale. But there's been a significant change in personnel this season with the younger players in addition to the new signings. Things have been freshened up.

I think it's more likely a bit of burnout making Poch not quite the same motivator at the moment. People forget how hard being an elite level coach is. Of course Klopp has been speaking about taking a sabbatical too.

I'm just hoping he's not losing any grip of the dressing room as that is what is critical.

I think Poch has been unfortunate in that Lo Celso and Sessegnon are not ready yet and Foyth and Ndombele got injured. Rose is understandably unsettled but had to play as Davies was also injured. Suddenly the team vs Newcastle looked very samey, with the exclusion of Eriksen for contract reasons, a player whose absence is worsened by GLC, Ndombele and Dele being not ready/out injured. So whilst it shouldn't be a stale squad, there is real deja vu right now.

I do think you are right on Poch and his negative attitude and mixed messages of late rubbing off on the players (like it has with many fans), plus some tactical and personnel changes that don't seem to be working. Doesn't sound like a motivational environment right now. From AGs post it seems like the close of the window is pencilled in as the time everyone refocuses and gets back on the same page so fingers crossed a resolution can be found then. Where that leaves us for the NLD I'm not sure!

 

[WiganSpur]

I think Poch has been unfortunate in that Lo Celso and Sessegnon are not ready yet and Foyth and Ndombele got injured. Rose is understandably unsettled but had to play as Davies was also injured. Suddenly the team vs Newcastle looked very samey, with the exclusion of Eriksen for contract reasons, a player whose absence is worsened by GLC, Ndombele and Dele being not ready/out injured. So whilst it shouldn't be a stale squad, there is real deja vu right now.

I do think you are right on Poch and his negative attitude and mixed messages of late rubbing off on the players (like it has with many fans), plus some tactical and personnel changes that don't seem to be working. Doesn't sound like a motivational environment right now. From AGs post it seems like the close of the window is pencilled in as the time everyone refocuses and gets back on the same page so fingers crossed a resolution can be found then. Where that leaves us for the NLD I'm not sure!

The end of the window can only do us good at least. Then after internationals hopefully we will get a couple more players back.

But there will still be an uncertain future for Eriksen. It has to be all or nothing with him, we either play him as a regular first team member or we ostracise him from the team completely if he's not interested. The current half-half approach I think is damaging in terms of the atmosphere it creates and seems very atypical of something Poch would do.

 

[Primativ]

Obviously it doesn’t really matter how strong Levy and Pochs relationship is, because if Poch loses the backing of some players, or is unable to motivate them, etc etc Levy will be forced to act.

I’m not saying that’s the case, and Hertyids info about Poch and Levy being as tight as ever could well be true, but if the performances and results don’t turn around soon, it really won’t matter bar buying Poch a bit more time to turn it around.

Anyway I fully hope Poch is able to turn it around soon. We all want him to be successful here and win trophies. My only worry is, we seem as far as ever away from having a fluid attacking system, I just don’t understand how we can look so poor despite so much talent.

That to me is concerning because how often do you see coaches turn it around when a team is showing so many issues?

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

how do you work out Sanchez has been at fault for 3 goals? McGin wasn't his man and Sanchez wasn't tall enough to cut out the through ball. what did he do wrong for the City goals. yes he was out of position for a ball over the top for Newcastle's goal but had Rose not paused on his run back, might of got a block in.

I agree Rose hasn't been great, but how do you know it wasn't Rose's choice to stay behind to try and find another club?

Sanchez wasn’t out of position for the Newcastle goal. A back four is supposed to operate as a unit and not leave huge gaps between each other. Toby shifted over to cover danger on the right and therefore so does Sánchez to close the gaps. Rose should have did the same to get closer to Sánchez and therefore meaning he could mark Joelinton. Instead he was caught ahead of play leaving a huge gap between him and Sánchez which Joelinton fully exploited. Anyone who blames Sánchez has a fundamental misunderstanding of how a back four operates. The fault is all on Rose.

 

[Primativ]

Sanchez wasn’t out of position for the Newcastle goal. A back four is supposed to operate as a unit and not leave huge gaps between each other. Toby shifted over to cover danger on the right and therefore so does Sánchez to close the gaps. Rose should have did the same to get closer to Sánchez and therefore meaning he could mark Joelinton. Instead he was caught ahead of play leaving a huge gap between him and Sánchez which Joelinton fully exploited. Anyone who blames Sánchez has a fundamental misunderstanding of how a back four operates. The fault is all on Rose.

Agree on you that Rose has been diabolical so far this season and to be fair he was showing huge signs of decline last season. I think his time is well and truly up. I don’t have any confidence he will get his form back for a significant period of time. He needs to move on now. So do we.

 

[SpartanSpur]

The end of the window can only do us good at least. Then after internationals hopefully we will get a couple more players back.

But there will still be an uncertain future for Eriksen. It has to be all or nothing with him, we either play him as a regular first team member or we ostracise him from the team completely if he's not interested. The current half-half approach I think is damaging in terms of the atmosphere it creates and seems very atypical of something Poch would do.

Yeah I think the Eriksen situation becomes a problem if he stays and doesn't sign a new deal. I assume we play others ahead of him, but then it'll be low hanging fruit for fans and media after every poor result/performance.

What really confuses me with Poch is why he played Eriksen away at City, where we looked to counter, and then benched him for Newcastle who were always going to play deep. I guess that selection headache is part of the reason why he's grumpy.