The beginning of the end...

[Trix]

Really?

To me it sounds like there’s no problem at all and people are being overly dramatic.

A few of the senior players are not happy ATM with tactics and individual roles/responsibilities within those tactics,.

How that's seen from the club's pov may well be different to how the players themselves see it!

Remember nearly all my stuff comes from agents not from the club.

 

[Japhet]

As I said, I have no opinion one way or the other, but...no smoke without fire. If rumours are true, it doesn't look good. I don't think I can recall a manager who has turned around such a dark patch since Fergie, 28 years ago.

Smoke without fire is the very life blood of tabloid journalism and social media.

 

[E17yid]

Don’t get me wrong our performances and results this calendar year is a concern and Poch 100% has to take a large part of the responsibility, but I think to much is being made of this 15 points from our last 15 games.

We had a fuck load of injuries last season and a hundred other factors going against us. This season should be separated from that. We’re 3 games in a have 4 points. Now, obviously, if we only get 11 points from our next 12 games then yeah, obviously the Poch out stuff might be more legitimate but I can’t see us folding that badly.

I appreciate performances are poor but we’ll know where we are over the next 10 games and I’d suggest holding out til then.

I actually think the Arsenal game is perfect. I’m shitting it, don’t get me wrong, but I’d much rather be written off unlike last season when people thought we were going to cruise past Arsenal in both games.

A good performance and a win going into the international break and the window closing will sort us out imo. Having said that I’ll take another shit performance and a 1-0 win. Admittedly I will worry if we’re not at it and get done. But a win against Arsenal gives 7 points from our opening 4 games which include City and Arsenal away which ain’t bad at all, all things considered.

 

[dagraham]

A few of the senior players are not happy ATM with tactics and individual roles/responsibilities within those tactics,.

How that's seen from the club's pov may well be different to how the players themselves see it!

Remember nearly all my stuff comes from agents not from the club.

Don’t blame them. Neither am I.

I know I shouldn’t be speculating, but fuck it. I wonder if Kane is unhappy with spending the last 12 months playing more as a number 10 ( and sometimes last season more or less playing midfield)? Because it’s doing my bloody head in watching it.

 

[dagraham]

I actually think the Arsenal game is perfect. I’m shitting it, don’t get me wrong, but I’d much rather be written off unlike last season when people thought we were going to cruise past Arsenal in both games.

Yeah I agree we don’t tend to do well when we are being talked up as favourites. Can’t seem to handle the expectation.

 

[wrd]

A few of the senior players are not happy ATM with tactics and individual roles/responsibilities within those tactics,.

How that's seen from the club's pov may well be different to how the players themselves see it!

Remember nearly all my stuff comes from agents not from the club.

Really would not be shocked at all if a few players are fed up of Kanes Preferential treatment.

 

[Primativ]

A few of the senior players are not happy ATM with tactics and individual roles/responsibilities within those tactics,.

How that's seen from the club's pov may well be different to how the players themselves see it!

Remember nearly all my stuff comes from agents not from the club.

I have to agree with the players here. The tactics are a mess. I'm also convinced, that a big problem some senior players have is with Winks being selected at the base of midfield.

I might be way off. I just have a feeling that the likes of Vertonghen don't agree with the set up we are using in midfield. They are probably asking for better protection and Winks does not provide it. They probably don't think he's good enough to be in the side. Verts has probably made a comment and Poch hasn't liked it. Delaney hints at something like that in his article which adds further fuel to it.

Players aren't stupid, if they see a player being picked by the manager who they don't feel is up to the job, or is being used incorrectly, they are going to get pissed, especially the senior pros.

If I look around the side, I don't see another obvious glaring issue around individual's / tactics apart form the Winks problem, and seeing as he is responsible for protecting the CBs, it would make sense why Vertonghen has been vocal.

The only other one would be Kane playing as a no 10 and dropping deeper, but I think Winks is the more likely.

 

[Dougal]

Really would not be shocked at all if a few players are fed up of Kanes Preferential treatment.

Sounds like somewhere you’d go to exfoliate.

 

[bceej]

Thing that annoys me is the way the current system completely stifles Kane, what happened to the set up for 16-17 season, where Kane would get actual service and we would play free flowing attacking football, instead of the current ponderous stuff etc where we would flatten mediocre teams like today with ease. Between 15-18 season he got an amazing 84 league goals, no it feels like he gets virtually no service and a shadow.

We havent played like that in a while, the win against villa, the late wins against newcastle, fulham, burnley, brighton and watford last season have papered over the cracks, that against mediocre teams we are so poor and labored now.

Feels like long gone are the days of thrashing Leicester, Hull, Stoke etc with ease, the current system is predictable and far to slow and today we ran out of that luck, manager has got to take responsibility for that.

I feel the style of play has been adapted to increase the longevity of the players so we can compete as a consistent unit in Europe. It's just a bit rubbish. We have good squad depth now (bar injuries) and should be able to increase our tempo accordingly.

 

[Primativ]

Really would not be shocked at all if a few players are fed up of Kanes Preferential treatment.

I find that incredibly unlikely, Kane is a star goalscorer. Who would the players prefer instead? Moura? The guy that when he starts often does nothing. Moura is a good player but he isn't a consistent goalscorer.

 

[bceej]

Another interesting point about Fergie. He didn't just change playing staff but he'd bring in new assistant coaches every few years to give the team a new voice and new methods. Something Poch may want to consider.

We need to bring in a movement coach.

 

[Dougal]

I have to agree with the players here. The tactics are a mess. I'm also convinced, that a big problem some senior players have is with Winks being selected at the base of midfield.

I might be way off. I just have a feeling that the likes of Vertonghen don't agree with the set up we are using in midfield. They are probably asking for better protection and Winks does not provide it. They probably don't think he's good enough to be in the side. Verts has probably made a comment and Poch hasn't liked it. Delaney hints at something like that in his article which adds further fuel to it.

Players aren't stupid, if they see a player being picked by the manager who they don't feel is up to the job, or is being used incorrectly, they are going to get pissed, especially the senior pros.

If I look around the side, I don't see another obvious glaring issue around individual's / tactics apart form the Winks problem, and seeing as he is responsible for protecting the CBs, it would make sense why Vertonghen has been vocal.

The only other one would be Kane playing as a no 10 and dropping deeper, but I think Winks is the more likely.

You don’t sound like you like Winks. For a while last season it was him and Sissoko as the only options in what would have been a 5th or 6th choice pairing at the start of that season. He’s grabbed his chance and has the manager’s backing. The other players should not be bitching about that.

 

[E17yid]

Yeah I agree we don’t tend to do well when we are being talked up as favourites. Can’t seem to handle the expectation.

Agreed. This is a must not lose game for us.

If we do manage to take all 3 points it could really kick start our season and reinvigorate Poch. After all, he’s not exactly got a great winning record away from home against the top 6 sides. It’s a big ask given our performances but, and I hate using cliches, form goes out the window in derbies and the players should be bang up for it. Obviously if they aren’t I’ll start to brick it. There’s no excuse for that, I’ll even take a loss but a really good performance, we can recover from that and build on it, but a half arsed effort in a derby and you can’t help but think it really could be the beginning of the end. Huge game.

 

[wrd]

I have to agree with the players here. The tactics are a mess. I'm also convinced, that a big problem some senior players have is with Winks being selected at the base of midfield.

I might be way off. I just have a feeling that the likes of Vertonghen don't agree with the set up we are using in midfield. They are probably asking for better protection and Winks does not provide it. They probably don't think he's good enough to be in the side. Verts has probably made a comment and Poch hasn't liked it. Delaney hints at something like that in his article which adds further fuel to it.

Players aren't stupid, if they see a player being picked by the manager who they don't feel is up to the job, or is being used incorrectly, they are going to get pissed, especially the senior pros.

If I look around the side, I don't see another obvious glaring issue around individual's / tactics apart form the Winks problem, and seeing as he is responsible for protecting the CBs, it would make sense why Vertonghen has been vocal.

The only other one would be Kane playing as a no 10 and dropping deeper, but I think Winks is the more likely.

Not like you to single Winks out

It's not like we are using tactics to accommodate Winks is it, it's a means to an end because Wanyama is done and Dier has been injured. Also There's no real evidence of Vert being vocal and I very much doubt that he's been on the training pitch calling out Winks. The Vert situations seems to be down to fitness.

The most likely scenario is the players being played out of position, Dele has been moved from 2nd striker now he's not even behind the striker in the diamond, Eriksen has had to drop deeper.

 

[Hakkz]

Not like you to single Winks out

It's not like we are using tactics to accommodate Winks is it, it's a means to an end because Wanyama is done and Dier has been injured. Also There's no real evidence of Vert being vocal and I very much doubt that he's been on the training pitch calling out Winks. The Vert situations seems to be down to fitness.

The most likely scenario is the players being played out of position, Dele has been moved from 2nd striker now he's not even behind the striker in the diamond, Eriksen has had to drop deeper.

Yup. Smells like bullshit.

It was fine having Mason and Bentaleb in front of you but Winks? Nah he's clearly not good enough.

 

[wrd]

I find that incredibly unlikely, Kane is a star goalscorer. Who would the players prefer instead? Moura? The guy that when he starts often does nothing. Moura is a good player but he isn't a consistent goalscorer.

I don't think its about him playing but more that we can be on a winning run and he can be injured and will automatically be put back in, vs Burnley and Liv for example and he can also have bad games but will never be subbed, I'm not saying Kane is at fault but I wouldn't be shocked if that bent a few noses out of shape.

 

[Primativ]

You don’t sound like you like Winks. For a while last season it was him and Sissoko as the only options in what would have been a 5th or 6th choice pairing at the start of that season. He’s grabbed his chance and has the manager’s backing. The other players should not be bitching about that.

I don't feel he justifies his place in the side at all. It's just my opinion, but if I feel like that watching games, I wonder if some of the players do.

Winks feels like Poch's pet. We will have to agree to disagree that he has grabbed his chance. Our CM last season was weak as hell, Sissoko carried us, Winks didn't.

All I'm saying is Trix mentioned that some senior players are unhappy with an or some individuals role in the team. To me Winks is the obvious candidate. We have been setting up with Winks as our DM and he doesn't protect the defence, so I can see why it could very well be linked to Verts making a comment. Based on the first 3 games, our defence has been exposed far too easily, even in the Villa game, when they broke on us they looked like scoring every opportunity. Same with Newcastle. We have zero protection, yet Poch sets up the same way. If we set up like that again on Sunday we will get a mauling.

 

[Primativ]

Not like you to single Winks out

It's not like we are using tactics to accommodate Winks is it, it's a means to an end because Wanyama is done and Dier has been injured. Also There's no real evidence of Vert being vocal and I very much doubt that he's been on the training pitch calling out Winks. The Vert situations seems to be down to fitness.

The most likely scenario is the players being played out of position, Dele has been moved from 2nd striker now he's not even behind the striker in the diamond, Eriksen has had to drop deeper.

It's just an opinion, as I see it as the biggest issue in the side right now, I may be wrong who knows.

The Verts issue is definitely not down to fitness come on mate

 

[Primativ]

I don't think its about him playing but more that we can be on a winning run and he can be injured and will automatically be put back in, vs Burnley and Liv for example and he can also have bad games but will never be subbed, I'm not saying Kane is at fault but I wouldn't be shocked if that bent a few noses out of shape.

You think this yet you think Verts is dropped because of fitness issues? Odd!! Kane plays because he is clearly superior to Moura or Son as a striker. Let's not forget Kane scored v Burnley as soon as he came back!!!

 

[Dougal]

I don't feel he justifies his place in the side at all. It's just my opinion, but if I feel like that watching games, I wonder if some of the players do.

Winks feels like Poch's pet. We will have to agree to disagree that he has grabbed his chance. Our CM last season was weak as hell, Sissoko carried us, Winks didn't.

All I'm saying is Trix mentioned that some senior players are unhappy with an or some individuals role in the team. To me Winks is the obvious candidate. We have been setting up with Winks as our DM and he doesn't protect the defence, so I can see why it could very well be linked to Verts making a comment. Based on the first 3 games, our defence has been exposed far too easily, even in the Villa game, when they broke on us they looked like scoring every opportunity. Same with Newcastle. We have zero protection, yet Poch sets up the same way. If we set up like that again on Sunday we will get a mauling.

I’m not saying you’re wrong. NDombele has come in now and I think we’ll see less of Winks as players return to the side. I just think he’s done all that has been asked of him and it’d be unlikely he would be the cause of a split in the camp. More high-profile candidates would be those thinking about jumping ship.