The 1st Un-Official Spurs Community Best & Worst of the Decade Vote Shortlist

[Bus-Conductor]

Best Manager - Ramos - Gave us our best moments of ecstasy and started the revolutionary cull of dead wood that Jol had gathered and made the best pair of signings since Burkinshaw brought Ardiles over. Inroduced pressing football and possession football.

Best Player - Freddie Kanoute - as good as Berbatov for a third of the price

Worst Player - Gary Doherty

Biggest Wooley - Mido

Best Signing - Modric

Worst Signing - Darren Bent

Greatest Game - Chelsea League Cup Final (very closely followed by Chelsea 5-1/Arse 5-1/West Ham 4-3)

Worst Game - West Ham 1-2 05/06

Best NON Goal - There was a game (Wigan I think) when Jenas scored two goals. Then we put together this fantastic move of slick passing and flicks involving Berbatov, Keane, etc which sent Jenas clean through for the easiest of his chances that day. Of course he fluffed it but it was a beautiful move.

Best Shirt - The black or brown ones from a couple of years ago

Worst Shirt - Any sky blue one ever.

 

[tRiKS]

So, just so we can be clear - Wendy get's all the glory for 4 months work, which involved him mainly removing ketchup from the canteen, and Martin, who spent several years working on a team whilst having the rug pulled out from under him on several occasions, get's no respect at all.

It wasn't Wendy's team, it was a team that, of it's own accord, had pulled together in the wake of the man who did give them their pride back being fired from the proverbial cannon.

Wendy demotivated, de-ketchupped and de-goaled our side, so simply because he was standing in the right place at the right time to hold that cup it doesn't mean he did much towards winning it really. The 5 - 1 return leg against the Woolwich was on his watch, yeah, but i still don't see how any praise can be heaped on him for winning a cup that, technically, all he did was hold the steering wheel for the last few hundred yards of a long race, whilst the vehicle did all the work.

No i'm not saying that at all, in fact i chose Jol as the best manger in the last decade for us. I'm saying that we won the carling cup when Ramos was manager. Its a fact and that fact stops him being the worst manager of the last decade as many have put. I suspect it's becasue Santini was so bad most forgot about him. I urge those who forgot to go back and Edit thier posts.

I then went onto say that trophies are the single most important thing in professional football. am I wrong?.. Is it the fans and the passion and the day out that really matters? hummm for Waford it might be but not for a massive clubs it isn't.

i love how anti ramos fans use the carling cup run as some sort of ammo agsint him? can you read back your post without laughing at yourself a little bit?

 

[DC_Boy]

I'm guessing the 04/05 League Cup QF, where it was my impression that it was a moment of madness by Kanoute with a handball late on. We then lost on pens.

hi shelfside - jol tried to put the blame on kanoute - which was yet more poor management by him (and yes i was livid with kanoute too - but calling out your own players in public mmm) for it was Jol who picked a weakened side

liverpool put out more or less a reserve side - they were there for the taking - it was our best, probably only, hope of silverware

jol himself said he would put out a stong side - from memory he said ' our strongest side'

he acknowledged there was a full house and the importance of the occasion then what did he do?

well IIRC he benched defoe and mendes who both should have started - not only fatally weakening our team, (again IIRC, we finally scored within about 5 mins of Defoe coming on late as a sub)

not only did he fatally weaken our team - he sent completely the wrong message out to both sides and our fans about the importance of the competition to us - all IMHO of course but i'm getting mad just thinking about it again - just the same as when i think about Hod and the team he picked in the final v rovers

we should have beaten liverpool reserves that horrible night - i don't think ramos would have failed to do so - but of course i can't prove that

 

[ShelfSide18]

hi shelfside - jol tried to put the blame on kanoute - which was yet more poor management by him but it was he picked a weakened side

liverpool put out more or less a reserve side - they were there for the taking - it was our best probably only hope of silverware

jol himself said he would put out a stong side - from memory - our strongest side

he acknowledged there was a full house and the importance of the occasion then what did he do

well IIRC he benched defoe and mendes who both should have started - not only fatally weakening our team, again IIRC, we finally scored within about 5 mins of Defoe coming on late as a sub

not only did he fatally weaken our team - he sent completely the wrong message out to both sides and our fans about the importance of the competition to us - all IMHO of course but i'm getting mad just thinking about it again - just the same as when i think about Hod and the team he picked in the final v rovers

I can't remember Jol's comments tbh, although I have no reason to doubt you are correct.

I've looked at the team we sent out in that game and it is by and large a strong team we sent out, more than enough to win the game. As much as I loved Kanoute, it was a pretty phenomenal moment of rashness and a decision that had a direct effect on us going out of the cup. After the incident Kanoute really galvanised himself and was brilliant for us the rest of the season. I would love to have him back here now.

I think the biggest mistake that Jol made in his tenure was letting Kanoute go to be honest, I wasn't anti Mido, but Kanoute was on another level and was a shame we let him go for such a small amount of cash.

 

[DC_Boy]

No i'm not saying that at all, in fact i chose Jol as the best manger in the last decade for us. I'm saying that we won the carling cup when Ramos was manager. Its a fact and that fact stops him being the worst manager of the last decade as many have put. I suspect it's becasue Santini was so bad most forgot about him. I urge those who forgot to go back and Edit thier posts.

I then went onto say that trophies are the single most important thing in professional football. am I wrong?.. Is it the fans and the passion and the day out that really matters? hummm for Waford it might be but not for a massive clubs it isn't.

i love how anti ramos fans use the carling cup run as some sort of ammo agsint him? can you read back your post without laughing at yourself a little bit?

Hi Triks - good stuff

i agree that maybe i should replace hoddle with santini as worst manager - but i felt so utterly and completely betrayed by hodd who as our idol had everything going for him and threw it all away with his stubborness, tactical naviety (aka I'm right and i'll play 3-5-2 even when the oppo are running through our midfield like Moses splitting the Red sea) etc etc

as you indicated santini barely registers on the 'tottenham scale' - most non-spurs fans and probably quite a few spurs fans if they had to list our managers this decade would probably not even mention him

back to ramos - yep it's trophies that count and for some to suggest all jr had to do was coast home in jol's car is sooooooo wrong

jol is the man who couldn't beat liverpool reserves at home in a quarter final

the man who lost to arsenal in a semi-final from 2-0 up, the man who lost to chelsea in a quarter final from 3-1 up

yes he was unlucky in the latter two games

but i'm convinced that man city away in the quarters would have done for jol's team and i certainly don't think jol could have beaten city away, arsenal in the semis and chelsea in the final - everything about his record at spurs says to me he'd have blown it through either bad luck or bad judgement or both

 

[ShelfSide18]

I just can't see how George Graham and his negative, dour brand of football is escaping from so many of our memories.

 

[DC_Boy]

I can't remember Jol's comments tbh, although I have no reason to doubt you are correct.

I've looked at the team we sent out in that game and it is by and large a strong team we sent out, more than enough to win the game. As much as I loved Kanoute, it was a pretty phenomenal moment of rashness and a decision that had a direct effect on us going out of the cup. After the incident Kanoute really galvanised himself and was brilliant for us the rest of the season. I would love to have him back here now.

I think the biggest mistake that Jol made in his tenure was letting Kanoute go to be honest, I wasn't anti Mido, but Kanoute was on another level and was a shame we let him go for such a small amount of cash.

hi shelfside - well i think you'll find that one of the resaons Ramos gets BC's vote is jol's treatment of kanoute - but i'll leave him to confirm that

you say jol put out a strong enough team to beat a hugely weakened pool team - but they didn't did they - jol and his team blew a golden chance of silverware (to mix my metals) - had he put out his strongest team which at the time included defoe and mendes - he could turn round and claim to be unlucky re kanoute - if he wanted to -

but he left himself open to criticism - he let himself down, the full house of spurs fans down and the club down

and he set a pattern of losing big games which ultimately for me means he wasn't our best manager this decade

give me till dec 29th and i might even vote for harry in 2nd place behind JR

 

[DC_Boy]

I just can't see how George Graham and his negative, dour brand of football is escaping from so many of our memories.

george won us a trophy 18 got us to two semi-finals and was cruelly robbed of managing that second one after a fantastic victory at west ham in an absolute classic

to this day i am sure graham would have made a better fist of that semi final than hod did

of course graham's trophy came in the previous decade so i'm leaving him out as best or worst

 

[Cozzie]

Best Manager - BMJ

Best Player - Ginola Ginola Ginola!

Worst Player - Gregorzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Rasiak

Biggest Wooley - Sol

Best Signing - Berbatov

Worst Signing - Helda Postiga

Greatest Game - Spurs 2-1 Chel$ki (The WHL game) / Spurs 5-1 Scum

Worst Game - Spurs 3-4 (10 man) Man City

Best Goal - Pedro Mendes v Manure

Best Shirt -2000/01

Worst Shirt - That purple abomination from a couple of years ago

 

[ShelfSide18]

george won us a trophy 18 got us to two semi-finals and was cruelly robbed of managing that second one after a fantastic victory at west ham in an absolute classic

to this day i am sure graham would have made a better fist of that semi final than hod did

of course graham's trophy came in the previous decade so i'm leaving him out as best or worst

He did win us a trophy, of which I enjoyed very much as my first visit to Wembley to see the Spurs :grin:. But... we played dreadful football, there was no enjoyment for me apart from the shining light on the left wing, my schoolboy hero, David Ginola - and Graham mistreated him and sold him. It really isn't much to do with his ex Arsenal status, but his horrendously negative football that brought us 4 0-0s in a row at one stage where he was genuinely pleased with our performances. Dropping Ginola in the UEFA cup game against Kaiserslautern was criminal too, when we got knocked out.

I'm sorry DC, but GG was everything I don't want Tottenham to be and I'm glad we won the CC in 2008 because the way we won that competition was as important as the winning of it. The Man City, Arsenal then Chelsea games were a joy to be at, and mean so much more to me than 99.

hi shelfside - well i think you'll find that one of the resaons Ramos gets BC's vote is jol's treatment of kanoute - but i'll leave him to confirm that

you say jol put out a strong enough team to beat a hugely weakened pool team - but they didn't did they - jol and his team blew a golden chance of silverware (to mix my metals) - had he put out his strongest team which at the time included defoe and mendes - he could turn round and claim to be unlucky re kanoute - if he wanted to -

but he left himself open to criticism - he let himself down, the full house of spurs fans down and the club down

and he set a pattern of losing big games which ultimately for me means he wasn't our best manager this decade

give me till dec 29th and i might even vote for harry in 2nd place behind JR

Oh I have no problem with BC (and others) choice of Ramos, and I think his comments about possession and pressing football are fair and something that we are really starting to do well now. I do think Ramos had the right idea of how we should play and what it takes to be a top team but I think his execution was poor and he tried to change us too quickly before we were ready. It was like teaching A level maths to GCSE level pupils.

Ramos often did well against the top 4 teams (although I maintain Jol suffered some horrendous luck in these fixtures sometimes) and I think this is because they play in a far more continental style that Ramos was used to and knew how to set up against. It was when we lined up against the Boltons and Birminghams that I think he showed a misunderstanding of the English game. I'm far more objective now when it comes to judging Ramos, the dust has settled and I believe he did instill some good things within Spurs that are showing now, as did Jol in my opinion.

The reason I chose Jol was because for a young guy like myself, I'd only ever known midtable finishes, promising starts but fizzling out to 10th and managers that I really never felt a real connection with before. Then Jol took over and we nearly got into europe in his first 2/3s of a season, then of course the next 2 5th place finishes which was this whole new experience to me and others. I felt a sense of pride in Spurs that I'd never felt before and could see an upward progression and one I could really believe in and connect with. It is fair to suggest that Jols good nature papered over the cracks that we, and he had, but I sensed a togetherness within the club and that was as much a consideration when I chose Jol. I remember my first ever European tour going to Braga away and it was one big spurs love in, all the Spurs fans in Porto before the game singing and dancing, more than ever before I could see most people pulling in the same direction and realising that together we are much stronger. I just never felt that with Ramos, it was too cold and clinical despite him leading us to a fabulous CC win which I cherish highly and am hugely grateful for. It is simplistic to say it was mainly Jol that won the cup although he must be credited in some way for the win in my opinion.

 

[Michey]

In my time as a fan......and it's nearly impossible to do a list like this. But here's my answer.

Best Manager: Keith Burkinshaw (three cups)

Best Player: Gary Lineker

Worst Player:Ramon Vega

Biggest Wooley: David Pleat

Best Signing: Jürgen Klinsmann

Worst Signing: David Bentley

Greatest Game: 5-1 against L'arse Carling Cup Semi

Worst Game: Losing 4-1 against Everton in the FA Cup Semi 1995

Best Goal: Edman against Liverpool

Best Shirt: Adidas

Worst Shirt: Pony

 

[ShelfSide18]

In my time as a fan......and it's nearly impossible to do a list like this. But here's my answer.

Best Manager: Keith Burkinshaw (three cups)

Best Player: Gary Lineker

Worst Player:Ramon Vega

Biggest Wooley: David Pleat

Best Signing: Jürgen Klinsmann

Worst Signing: David Bentley

Greatest Game: 5-1 against L'arse Carling Cup Semi

Worst Game: Losing 4-1 against Evertonin the FA Cup Semi 1995

Best Goal: Edman against Liverpool

Best Shirt: Adidas

Worst Shirt: Pony

It's best and worst of the decade Michey :up:

 

[Michey]

It's best and worst of the decade Michey :up:

Doh!!!!!!

Oh well, i might do another one later then :up:

 

[Jody]

For some reason, in my mind, I had Sol leaving us a lot earlier than 2001 and I had Teddy leaving for Manure after that. Strange.

Best Manager - BMJ
Worst Manager - JS
Best Player - Berbatov
Worst Player - Micheal Brown
Best Buy - Berbatov
Worst Signing - Dean Richards
Numpty - Fun Time Franky (just to be different)
Best Goal - Daws header against Chelsea
Best Game - See above

 

[DC_Boy]

hi 18 - good stuff as usual - you're a credit to our club

 

[Bus-Conductor]

DC

No, you know it was a hell of a lot more than that (Kanoute), that was just one of the early signs that the bloke had serious limitations and man management problems.

By the way, technically Modric is the best player I've seen in a spurs shirt this decade, but Kanoute just gets the nod as Modric has only done one full season and it took him a couple of months of that to find his rhythm. Kanoute just got the nod as he was around a bit longer. Berbatov is possibly a better finisher than Kanoute inside the box but everywhere else Kanoute is slightly better, better in the air, better (marginally) at holding up the ball and equal technique.

 

[spurs_viola]

...

Oh I have no problem with BC (and others) choice of Ramos, and I think his comments about possession and pressing football are fair and something that we are really starting to do well now. I do think Ramos had the right idea of how we should play and what it takes to be a top team but I think his execution was poor and he tried to change us too quickly before we were ready. It was like teaching A level maths to GCSE level pupils.

Ramos often did well against the top 4 teams (although I maintain Jol suffered some horrendous luck in these fixtures sometimes) and I think this is because they play in a far more continental style that Ramos was used to and knew how to set up against. It was when we lined up against the Boltons and Birminghams that I think he showed a misunderstanding of the English game. I'm far more objective now when it comes to judging Ramos, the dust has settled and I believe he did instill some good things within Spurs that are showing now, as did Jol in my opinion.

....

Very good points there. I wish there were more people who could look at the Ramos time at the club with some objectivity now, even if they were vilifying him towards the end of his time at Spurs.

And, seeing that this poll is indeed for this decade only, I am joining the minority here and vote for Ramos as potentially the best manager/head coach Spurs had the chance to have. I still believe that given anything like the control over players (signings etc) that Harry has enjoyed so far, and given just a little more time in England, Ramos and Alvares could have taken Spurs to the heights in terms of standing and performance on a par with Sevilla FC. Not for just a season, but for years to come - as we see with Sevilla now. This was a huge chance wasted by the board and the players who preferred their boozy partying and relaxed training to the possibilities of real success.

 

[DC_Boy]

DC

No, you know it was a hell of a lot more than that (Kanoute), that was just one of the early signs that the bloke had serious limitations and man management problems.
.

Hi BC i said it was one reason - i know there are lots of beefs you had with Jol - some of which I share

I think you have reservations about the way Jol dealt with the norovirus event - so do I

yes it was cruel cruel bad luck - but could it have been handled better - the suspicion remains about our contingency planning on that day

anyway this isn't the place for rehashing the jol era

just to reassure you i know kanoute was only one of the issues you had with Jol and though we disagree on much we both agree that Jol was ridiculously overpraised by many spurs fan (we may both be horribly wrong of course

 

[llamafarmer]

Best Manager - MJ

Best Player - Ginola :bowdown: (Does he count? If not Berbatov)

Worst Player -

Biggest Wooley - Steven Carr (There's been soooo many!)

Best Signing - Berbatov

Worst Signing - Rasiak

Greatest Game - Carling Cup final vs Chelsea

Worst Game - FA Cup replay Spurs 3- 4 Man City

Best Goal - Edman vs Liverpool

Best Shirt - 04/05 Kappa home or 06/07 Puma brown 3rd

Worst Shirt - 03/04 purple Kappa away