Takeover talk

[SpursDave88]

You do understand the concept of an investment company right?

Yes and there are two ways to run a business like this. One, you grow the asset, two, you sweat the asset.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Yes and there are two ways to run a business like this. One, you grow the asset, two, you sweat the asset.

And taking a club consistently into Europe from mid-table obscurity, building a new state of the art training ground and buying up the land for a new stadium is which one?

 

[Kendall]

Yes and there are two ways to run a business like this. One, you grow the asset, two, you sweat the asset.

It's called sustainable growth, mate.

 

[Dirty Ewok]

I'm all for it. I'd like to be on the same page as the "elites" for once.

Seriously though, I think one thing The Carlyle Group would ensure is success. Such consortia/groups are not in the habit of failing.

COYTCG. Get it done.

Well they did purchase Synagro in 2007 and have to sell it 7 years later at a $300m loss......so, they do have their misses.

Personally i really think that both Cain Hoy and Carlyle view Spurs as a vehicle to allow them into what they really want....controlling position in the redevelopment of a section of London.

That said, i think they would try to ensure that the club was positioned to be highly competitive so it could serve as the flagship as they work to redevelop the area.

 

[parklane1]

Run it into the ground? Cash Cow?

We've spent around £150m on our team in the last couple of years. The fact that Levy managed to get a world record fee for one of the players shouldn't take away from this fact. It was practically a nil net spend, but that was because Levy generated unbelievable cash for us to spend.

As mentioned, if it was truly a cash cow, they'd have spent half of the money and taken the rest as bonus. It's bollocks. Levy has helped make the club far more valuable than it was before and delivered consistent European football without running the club unsustainably.

I will accept criticism of Levy with regard to football-side decisions, but there's no evidence or your business-side claims.

Indeed, but why let the facts get in the way of a uninformed rant.

 

[SpursDave88]

Run it into the ground? Cash Cow?

We've spent around £150m on our team in the last couple of years. The fact that Levy managed to get a world record fee for one of the players shouldn't take away from this fact. It was practically a nil net spend, but that was because Levy generated unbelievable cash for us to spend.

As mentioned, if it was truly a cash cow, they'd have spent half of the money and taken the rest as bonus. It's bollocks. Levy has helped make the club far more valuable than it was before and delivered consistent European football without running the club unsustainably.

I will accept criticism of Levy with regard to football-side decisions, but there's no evidence or your business-side claims.

Levy is getting paid handsomely for this service, as the money in football has expanded exponentially, rather than growing the business at the right time the by investing in it, Levy has just churned the playing staff, the ever increasing value of our transfers is only a function of the nominal value of all professional footballers increasing, so the net spend is the only relevant metric. The club is currently run as a player trading scheme and a yield based asset. Is it any wonder we have fallen so far behind our rivals over the past decade?

 

[Kendall]

Levy is getting paid handsomely for this service, as the money in football has expanded exponentially, rather than growing the business at the right time the by investing in it, Levy has just churned the playing staff, the ever increasing value of our transfers is only a function of the nominal value of all professional footballers increase sing, so the net spend it the only relevant metric. The club is currently run as a player trading scheme and a yield based asset. Is it any wonder we have fallen so far behind our rivals over the past decade?

How much is levy getting paid and how have you determined that his salary would've had a negative effect on the growth of Spurs?

The reason we have fallen behind Chelsea and City isn't because Levy took a big salary, it's because they have had unsustainable cash injections and suffered massive losses, which were absorbed by their extremely wealthy owners. They got lucky, basically. I hate to break it to you, but Arsenal were already miles ahead of us when Levy got involved. As a club, Liverpool should be leagues ahead of us, they're not, because they don't have the same unsustainable cash model of Chelsea/City. They have such a rich history and huge fanbase, yet continue to struggle to find the right balance.

We have to make money from players as assets in order to remain competitive, which we have to a certain degree.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Levy is getting paid handsomely for this service, as the money in football has expanded exponentially, rather than growing the business at the right time the by investing in it, Levy has just churned the playing staff, the ever increasing value of our transfers is only a function of the nominal value of all professional footballers increasing, so the net spend is the only relevant metric. The club is currently run as a player trading scheme and a yield based asset. Is it any wonder we have fallen so far behind our rivals over the past decade?

In the past decade we've got closer to our rivals. Much closer.

The teams we are now behind operate on a completely different basis to us as a result of either having a gazillionaire in charge, being the biggest club in the world, or having a huge stadium. Levy has been working on the one of those things that he can (the stadium) so can't really see your point at all.

And as for him getting paid handsomely...do you really think that's the issue here?

As Kendall has said, some of the footballing decisions Levy has made have been poor, and the one time where we really should have invested more (after we got into the Champions League) was his one major financial screw up. But in terms of growth and in terms of investment, you won't get much more out of a new investment company and you probably won't get more out of anyone now that FFP has come in.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Fuck you Kendall with your faster typing.

 

[SteveH]

Groundhog day!

 

[SpursDave88]

How much is levy getting paid and how have you determined that his salary would've had a negative effect on the growth of Spurs?

The reason we have fallen behind Chelsea and City isn't because Levy took a big salary, it's because they have had unsustainable cash injections and suffered massive losses, which were absorbed by their extremely wealthy owners. They got lucky, basically. I hate to break it to you, but Arsenal were already miles ahead of us when Levy got involved. As a club, Liverpool should be leagues ahead of us, they're not, because they don't have the same unsustainable cash model of Chelsea/City. They have such a rich history and huge fanbase, yet continue to struggle to find the right balance.

We have to make money from players as assets in order to remain competitive, which we have to a certain degree.

Allegedly his salary is £2m, it doesn't have a negative effect on Spurs growth it just means that he doesn't NEED the business to grow to get a return, he is already getting that through his relatively large salary, which is apparently one of, if not the highest in the PL. You say that Chelsea and City are unsustainable, but that discounts the fact that they have generally been able to sell players for significantly more than they bought them and now, on the back of reasonable successes, haver far larger revenue streams than us. In the long run, the money splurged on players in the early years will seem so small it will be completely forgotten. When top players are now going for fees of 60m+ on their own and more average ones 30-40m, the few 100m that took Man City from lower league languishes and relegation to title challengers and perennial champions league entrants is small. As we speak they themselves have built a world class training facility and are setting up clubs in other countries to create a true global entity. Put it this way, all the money they "unsustainably" spent on players, would probably be doubled if they sold those same players today so actually it was a great investment.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Allegedly his salary is £2m, it doesn't have a negative effect on Spurs growth it just means that he doesn't NEED the business to grow to get a return, he is already getting that through his relatively large salary, which is apparently one of, if not the highest in the PL. You say that Chelsea and City are unsustainable, but that discounts the fact that they have generally been able to sell players for significantly more than they bought them and now, on the back of reasonable successes, haver far larger revenue streams than us. In the long run, the money splurged on players in the early years will seem so small it will be completely forgotten. When top players are now going for fees of 60m+ on their own and more average ones 30-40m, the few 100m that took Man City from lower league languishes and relegation to title challengers and perennial champions league entrants is small. As we speak they themselves have built a world class training facility and are setting up clubs in other countries to create a true global entity. Put it this way, all the money they "unsustainably" spent on players, would probably be doubled if they sold those same players today so actually it was a great investment.

So you're advocating buying players and then selling them at a higher price?

Because if so then I think you may be arguing against yourself in this thread.

 

[SpursDave88]

So you're advocating buying players and then selling them at a higher price?

Because if so then I think you may be arguing against yourself in this thread.

I said if...the key point is they actually ended up winning things...which we will never do under Levy's stewardship.

 

[Kendall]

Allegedly his salary is £2m, it doesn't have a negative effect on Spurs growth it just means that he doesn't NEED the business to grow to get a return, he is already getting that through his relatively large salary, which is apparently one of, if not the highest in the PL. You say that Chelsea and City are unsustainable, but that discounts the fact that they have generally been able to sell players for significantly more than they bought them and now, on the back of reasonable successes, haver far larger revenue streams than us. In the long run, the money splurged on players in the early years will seem so small it will be completely forgotten. When top players are now going for fees of 60m+ on their own and more average ones 30-40m, the few 100m that took Man City from lower league languishes and relegation to title challengers and perennial champions league entrants is small. As we speak they themselves have built a world class training facility and are setting up clubs in other countries to create a true global entity. Put it this way, all the money they "unsustainably" spent on players, would probably be doubled if they sold those same players today so actually it was a great investment.

It seems to be then, that you are pissed off that the owners of ENIC didn't put their own money in. To a certain extent, I can understand that. I think in hindsight, Lewis in particular missed an opportunity.

He's seen Chelsea be taken over and practically buy the league, he also saw Arsenal start to build a new stadium and I think he could/should have seen the opportunity to inject a loan to Spurs to at least allow us to compete on a stadium capacity/match day revenue basis.

Big cash injections from the super rich aside, can you name me a chairman that has managed organic growth in the Premier League as successfully as Levy?

 

[talkshowhost86]

I said if...the key point is they actually ended up winning things...which we will never do under Levy's stewardship.

Right so it's a football decision issue rather than a financing issue?

 

[SpursDave88]

It seems to be then, that you are pissed off that the owners of ENIC didn't put their own money in. To a certain extent, I can understand that. I think in hindsight, Lewis in particular missed an opportunity.

He's seen Chelsea be taken over and practically buy the league, he also saw Arsenal start to build a new stadium and I think he could/should have seen the opportunity to inject a loan to Spurs to at least allow us to compete on a stadium capacity/match day revenue basis.

Big cash injections from the super rich aside, can you name me a chairman that has managed organic growth in the Premier League as successfully as Levy?

I think we agree then. Thing is I'm not sure we have managed organic growth, at least on a relative basis we are pretty much exactly where we were 15 years ago...still trotting out stories about Bill Nic and Keith Burkinshaw. Have Arsenal had a massive cash injection from a super rich owner? No, they have just been far better run and organised. Sadly a club like ours will never compete unless a clutch of great players land in our lap, except that when that actually happened with Bale and Modric, we did not supplement the squad preferring to sign Louis Saha and Ryan Nelsen, when we could have gone for Gary Cahill and Suarez or Dzeko. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Kendall]

I think we agree then. Thing is I'm not sure we have managed organic growth, at least on a relative basis we are pretty much exactly where we were 15 years ago...still trotting out stories about Bill Nic and Keith Burkinshaw. Have Arsenal had a massive cash injection from a super rich owner? No, they have just been far better run and organised. Sadly a club like ours will never compete unless a clutch of great players land in our lap, except that when that actually happened with Bale and Modric, we did not supplement the squad preferring to sign Louis Saha and Ryan Nelsen, when we could have gone for Gary Cahill and Suarez or Dzeko. The rest, as they say, is history.

On Arsenal, unfortunately I think we're still feeling the effect of falling behind them under Sugar. They were already miles ahead by 2001 and since they bought the stadium and consolidated their place in the top 4/CL every year, we haven't been able to quite catch them up, but we made strides by finishing just below them, rather than 10 places. Like it or not, that's progress considering their superior financial muscle.

 

[sussexyid]

Arent the Carlyle group the one that owns the big weapons manufacturers in the USA, run by ex congressmen and presidents etc? Its the place the go to earn hideously large sums of money once they have finished with politics - See john Major for example.

Id hate the fact we were an asset of an investment fund. However, Id love that they got things done, spent money and invested heavily in us.

Anyway, was listening to TalkSport this morning and even Lord Sugar has poo poo'd the idea this is likely to happen.

Its all very impressive being financially sustainable but the footie is currently boring me too tears!

 

[Dirty Ewok]

Arent the Carlyle group the one that owns the big weapons manufacturers in the USA, run by ex congressmen and presidents etc? Its the place the go to earn hideously large sums of money once they have finished with politics - See john Major for example.

Id hate the fact we were an asset of an investment fund. However, Id love that they got things done, spent money and invested heavily in us.

Anyway, was listening to TalkSport this morning and even Lord Sugar has poo poo'd the idea this is likely to happen.

Its all very impressive being financially sustainable but the footie is currently boring me too tears!

Yup.....they made a fair chunk of cash off of weapons and weapons systems and currently own a couple companies that are tied very closely to the US government including one that is tasked with running customer service and automation of the IRS (the department responsible for taxing the American public).

So far we know that this group is supposedly "interested" in speaking with ENIC. Wanting to speak to a group (and not having done so thus far is important to note) and doing a takeover are VERY, VERY distant from each other.

So this could be nothing or this could be something......we genuinely have no idea at this point.

 

[Kendall]

@NinePoundHammer Care to join in the discussion? Any discussion?