Standing At Games

nailsy

SC Supporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
22,417
There's a lot of debate over in the stadium thread about whether people should stand at matches rather than use the seats that are provided. Rather than clog up that thread I thought it might be an idea to continue the discussion in a dedicated thread. So where do you stand on the issue? :cautious:
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
22,196
I like to stand but not at the expense of those around me as i appreciate not everyone can stand for 90 mins. You feel more involved in the game when you stand certainly.

I just think safe standing needs to be a thing that would solve the issue.
 

Dougal

Staff
Staff
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
52,767
1. The club need to ask fans not to do it, that’s the part they must play to appease the governing bodies.

2. If you got your season ticket in the Park Lane and expected to sit without problems you didn’t do your research.

3. If you got your season ticket anywhere else in the ground and expected to stand without problems you didn’t do your research.

4. Some newer stewards need to chill the fuck out until they get more experience or more training.

5. This will die down. We’re at the end of the season, the stadium and everything associated with it are major talking points right now. There will be issues again at the start of next season but eventually things will fall into place and anyone who doesn’t like it should absolutely move to a place in the ground which is more suited to them once the opportunity arises.
 

cjbyid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
904
I like to stand too, 100% expected to stand in the new place as I had my seat in the old parklane and knew that wouldn't change.

Mind you I'm in block 258 and most people sat on Tuesday.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
5,391
They will never get rid of it so the only logical solution is to bring in safe standing IMO. Bring in safe standing, then really clamp down on standing in other areas.
 

spursphil

Tottenham To The Bone
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
517
The best atmosphere generated at football grounds is is always in sections where people stand. And I have 50 years experience of going to games from non league to champions league.
I was at hillsborough in 81 and it's astonishing people are still uninformed about what happened in the leppings lane end to this very day. They still use the same propaganda used by the authorities in the lies and tricks used to get rid of terraces.
The government hid all the paperwork for 27 years exposed by the Hillsborough enquiry.
The ground didn't have a safety certificate from 1979 to 1989, the club knew this so did the local authorities and the police. The FA must have known this also!
But the most damaging piece of evidence to come out of the enquiry was the fact that the terrace was only designed to hold 7,000. Yet they were cramming 14,000 people into that terrace for years.
It was never a fact that standing was unsafe, overcrowding is unsafe and that's what happened in that end for many years. The video put up on the other thread of the 81 semifinal proves beyond doubt the overcrowding conditions were ignored for years.
After the disaster the cover ups start and the public must be brainwashed into believing it's the fans fault and terraces are unsafe. Most buy that line hook line and sinker.
 

Tucker

The Goggles, they do not work...
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
7,816
I like to stand but not at the expense of those around me as i appreciate not everyone can stand for 90 mins. You feel more involved in the game when you stand certainly.

I just think safe standing needs to be a thing that would solve the issue.
This. I’ll stand up like everyone else when things get going etc. But if I’m getting in someone’s way I feel awkward so I’m happy to sit down and be considerate.

It’s high time there are designated safe standing areas. After the myths around Hillsborough have been debunked, the whole Taylor report needs reviewing, from standing to not being allowed a drink in view of the pitch.
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
3,721
I like to stand but not at the expense of those around me as i appreciate not everyone can stand for 90 mins. You feel more involved in the game when you stand certainly.

I just think safe standing needs to be a thing that would solve the issue.
This.

Love standing when a chant/the game gets going but i wouldn't stay standing to the detriment of those behind me.

Oddly on the shelf (and i'm sure in a few other areas) i'd regularly encounter some fellas who would just stand and chat throughout the game. Not saying anything positive, not singing, just standing. Literally couldn't get them to sit down - bizarre. It was like being at a live football game, in which their favourite team was playing, was just a massive infringement to their usual Saturday of standing at a bar or moaning in a pub.

So for people like that, give them somewhere to stand, others stand when you're having a sing and cheering the team on but then let others watch the game and if you're in the park lane end/super stand, don't expect to sit much. It's not that hard.
 

Dougal

Staff
Staff
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
52,767
If something happens in a game I’m sitting at it’s my natural reaction to stand. You’re involving yourself more. But I do understand that some can’t get up and down. As much as there is a need for standing areas there is a need for affordable seating too. If you still get some wally standing there then he’s easier to steward than half a block.
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
3,721
I think the problems stem from those people who lack general awareness completely in life. The zombies you see driving badly/walking aimlessly in supermarkets. They lack basic awareness and courtesy.

So when you have a kid behind you, or someone who can't stand up and down constantly, most decent people will bear that in mind but you get a few who don't/can't because their brains aren't capable of breathing and considering their surroundings at the same time.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
3,148
The best atmosphere generated at football grounds is is always in sections where people stand. And I have 50 years experience of going to games from non league to champions league.
I was at hillsborough in 81 and it's astonishing people are still uninformed about what happened in the leppings lane end to this very day. They still use the same propaganda used by the authorities in the lies and tricks used to get rid of terraces.
The government hid all the paperwork for 27 years exposed by the Hillsborough enquiry.
The ground didn't have a safety certificate from 1979 to 1989, the club knew this so did the local authorities and the police. The FA must have known this also!
But the most damaging piece of evidence to come out of the enquiry was the fact that the terrace was only designed to hold 7,000. Yet they were cramming 14,000 people into that terrace for years.
It was never a fact that standing was unsafe, overcrowding is unsafe and that's what happened in that end for many years. The video put up on the other thread of the 81 semifinal proves beyond doubt the overcrowding conditions were ignored for years.
After the disaster the cover ups start and the public must be brainwashed into believing it's the fans fault and terraces are unsafe. Most buy that line hook line and sinker.
There's another thing I think is really crucial to the debate but is very rarely mentioned. The Taylor Report never reccommended seating just because it was inherently safer. It was about changing football. The idea was that with all-seater you could kill the traditional matchday experience, make the fans lose interest, upgrade facilities, and bring in a new type of fan instead who'd never cause them this much bother. It was the gentrification of our national game eagerly supported by the Thatcher Government, and already at the point on its way globally thanks to FIFA and UEFA who similarly benefitted from these changes. Meanwhile, the concerned raised were justified with many predictions that seemed ludicrous at the time and turned out to be verifiably false. You can read it for yourself here, particularly from page 12 onwards, but here's some highlights:

"It is not enough to aim only at the minimum measures necessary for safety... Attitudes should be more welcoming... an improvement in behaviour, making crowd control easier."

"if spectators are offered civilised conditions they come to respect them."

"There is no panacea which will achieve total safety and cure all problems of behaviour and crowdcontrol. But I am satisfied that seating does more to achieve those objectives than any other single measure."

" I am not convinced that the cherished culture of the terraces is wholly lost when fans are seated.Watching the more boisterous and demonstrative sections at all-seater grounds, I have noted no absence ofconcerted singing, chanting, clapping or gesticulating in unison. The communal spirit is still there and finds ready expression."

"clubs may well wish to charge somewhat more for seats than for standing but it should bepossible to plan a price structure which suits the cheapest seats to the pockets of those presently paying to stand."



Thankfully, this has only partially succeeded, in large part because all-seating has been resisted and nearly all grounds have sections where persistent standing is still known to take place. I for one do not think that ruining the pasttime of millions is a good response to hooliganism, and find it disgusting that the official report into a disaster that had nothing to do with such behaviour was used as an excuse to justify this. So I'll continue to stand whenever I can, and push for this nasty, anti-working-class nonsense to be erradicated from the books like it should've been decades back.
 

Roynie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
2,947
One of the aspects of the terracing years ago was that the railings along ther terrace were not continuous and were not every step, or even every two or three steps. The system varied from ground to ground and it was normal to see fans in some stadia swaying some considerable distance as a shot on goal just missed, for example. The safe standing areas now have railing on virtually every step and such dangerous swaying would not be possible.

I do agree that there are many who can't stand all of the game. or who don't want to, it doesn't matter which applies they should be forced to stand to see the game. That said there should now be a review of the Taylor Report and stafe standing should be permitted within certain sections of the ground and ST holders should be allowed to swop their seats accord to their preference to sit or stand during the game, accepting that it many take some time to accomodate everyone.
 

Rob

The Boss
Admin
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24,644
If something happens in a game I’m sitting at it’s my natural reaction to stand. You’re involving yourself more. But I do understand that some can’t get up and down. As much as there is a need for standing areas there is a need for affordable seating too. If you still get some wally standing there then he’s easier to steward than half a block.
You can't market anywhere as a "no standing" area though as that's giving tacit approval to the (still) illegal standing elsewhere.

Bottom line is that it needs the law changing to allow what happens anyway.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
22,417
1. The club need to ask fans not to do it, that’s the part they must play to appease the governing bodies.

2. If you got your season ticket in the Park Lane and expected to sit without problems you didn’t do your research.

3. If you got your season ticket anywhere else in the ground and expected to stand without problems you didn’t do your research.

4. Some newer stewards need to chill the fuck out until they get more experience or more training.

5. This will die down. We’re at the end of the season, the stadium and everything associated with it are major talking points right now. There will be issues again at the start of next season but eventually things will fall into place and anyone who doesn’t like it should absolutely move to a place in the ground which is more suited to them once the opportunity arises.
It's hard to argue with any of that. The comment that kicked off this whole discussion was from a member who said that when they eventually made it through the ticketing system they were allocated a seat in the Park lane and they didn't have an option of changing the seat. If you go in that stand you should know that everyone is going to stand, but there should be the option to choose another part of the ground to sit in. Maybe he was just unlucky/lucky and got the last ticket available. Hopefully they'll introduce safe standing in the future and people can have more choice over where to they want to be.

Not sure how true this is, but someone on here said that the stewards who were being most forceful were the ones in the family stand. Obviously people standing up in that stand is going to be a big problem for the kids who are trying to watch the game.
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
8,796
I had a result today, got my tickets sent via email, and they had this on it

View attachment 48226

as I can't enjoy a game without a cigarette then surely I should just ignore that sign, and sod everyone else(y)
 

spursphil

Tottenham To The Bone
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
517
The old Park lane lower was where the singers would congregate and everyone stood for the entire match. Every Spurs fan knew this, and if you wanted to sit, this wasn't the best spot to pick a seat. The away fans also spent the game on their feet.
Now I remember the club asking fans what they wanted from this new "home end" the feedback was an end for our most passionate fans, those that would create an atmosphere 2nd to none. Flags to be waved in an end modelled on Dortmunds yellow wall.
This is what we all want surely!
 

Yid-ol

Just-in-Edinburgh
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
25,846
It's entrapment... The name of it is "stands" maybe we should call them "sittings" :cautious::whistle:

When I am at a game I will stand when there is something happening to stand and look at, but sit the other time. I know I can stand the full 90 minutes but know others can't or are unable to see over everyone else. The law needs to be changed first before we can stand all game.
 

Dougal

Staff
Staff
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
52,767
You can't market anywhere as a "no standing" area though as that's giving tacit approval to the (still) illegal standing elsewhere.

Bottom line is that it needs the law changing to allow what happens anyway.
While officially it’s all seater my point about doing research stands (pardon pun). If you’re spending at least a grand on something take 10 minutes to find out what you’re buying. And if you do happen to land upon a ticket for the Park Lane, do your best to embrace it instead of being ‘that guy’.
 
Top