Spurs and VAR

SE Spurs

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I can't get too upset about the VAR decision. Its obviously hugely floored, but we've had plenty go our way before this.

I'm far more upset with the teams reaction after it. And the feeling of inevitability, when we didn't get the 2nd.
 

muppetman

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For the disallowed goal yesterday, the issue isn't VAR - that worked as intended. The issue is that the off-side law is no longer fit for purpose. As I understand it the rule was brought in to stop goal hanging and associated problems. The decision yesterday shows that it is now outdated and needs looking at.
 

buckley

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I have just wrote what I am going to say on the "Poch" tab .
We call the game football not "headball " and not " where the arm meets the torso ball" or " what part of the body is nearest the goal ball " no we call it football and what is galling is the Leicester goal if the foot was used as a guide then the goal would have stood .
I am not grousing because it us that suffered its just that its so confusing this drawing lines from somewhere on the body to the ground to decide offside but for me instead of making it confusing lets make it simple. The game we watch is called football so lets use the foot position to judge offside to me this is easy and simple and not confusing as it is judged now and as say its called football.
 

Darth Vega

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VAR is causing as much controversy as it's solving issues. It correctly ruled out Leicester's goal yesterday, but were there no VAR for Son's goal, not a single pundit or fan would've taken issue with it. 99% would have looked at it and gone "he's level" and moved on. Instead, we're here 24 hours later still talking about it. You could argue that we'd be doing the same if there was no VAR as Leicester's goal wouldn't have been correctly ruled out, but at least we didn't have to sit through 2 minutes for every tight call and ruin the beauty of celebrating. I barely celebrated Aurier's goal yesterday watching at home because it looked tight in the build-up. Pre-VAR, the lino would've flagged within 5 seconds and we'd have moved on.

When you also take into account how rubbish the refs in the Premier League still are - Gray's non-red card yesterday and Bournemouth's non-penalty as two examples of major fuck-ups this weekend alone - it's doing more harm than good.

This isn't even to mention the so called delay in frames; getting the accurate millisecond of when the ball is released in relation to an offside/onside player's positioning; and issues like where the shoulder/arm starts, it's a flawed system that isn't yet capable of giving definitive decisions nearly as often as it should be.

Send it to the bin where it belongs until a more capable alternative is found.
 

Yiddo100

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I’d prefer to Just get rid of it, would prefer to concede a 99th minute goal a yard offside to lose a match than this shit show
 

JayB

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Now The Chavs know how we feel.
Not sure the two are really analogous. The Chelsea player was offside to the naked eye, no need for some bloke in a TV production van to make arbitrary guesses as to where his shoulder merges into his arm underneath his shirt to find that he was off by 13 millimeters.
 

stevenurse

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Has a penalty been given by VAR for a foul that wasn't seen or judged correctly yet? I can't remember one, but can remember easily 5 or 6 at least that should have been overturned but haven't been. Yesterday when Barnes was tripped. How can that not be a penalty?

The fact that by that measure, the FA and the ref group whatever its called (POML or something) see as every penalty call to be correct is absolute nonsense and stubborn arrogance, or cowardess from the VAR teams
 

stevenurse

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Not sure the two are really analogous. The Chelsea player was offside to the naked eye, no need for some bloke in a TV production van to make arbitrary guesses as to where his shoulder merges into his arm underneath his shirt to find that he was off by 13 millimeters.
That's one thing that boiled my piss as much as anything yesterday. Son's shirt merged with Evans' shorts so even a 100% accurate measurement would have been impossible to make. The fact their goal that was firstly allowed when he was 2 yards offside is a joke. I hate it all
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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The worst thing about this is that people can't distinguish between good VAR decisions and bad ones. It seems if VAR ever goes against you then youve been screwed over.

So many Man City fans calling us hypocrites for complaining about it.
To follow this up - this article sums up people's inability to distinguish between VAR working very well and failing miserably:


"It's what happens with VAR, you have to get your head round it. It works for you and against you," said Foxes boss Brendan Rodgers on BT Sport. "It worked both ways for us today".

No Brendan, it just worked one way not both.

The Premier League told BBC Sport: "The VAR has to judge offside based on the evidence provided. Once the line is drawn it becomes objective as the player is either onside or offside".

Why doesn't it surprise me that they're sticking to their guns that the technology is 100% accurate. So they're saying "once the subjective line is drawn it becomes objective". So depressing that they're not learning from these horrible failures.
 

JayB

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To follow this up - this article sums up people's inability to distinguish between VAR working very well and failing miserably:


"It's what happens with VAR, you have to get your head round it. It works for you and against you," said Foxes boss Brendan Rodgers on BT Sport. "It worked both ways for us today".

No Brendan, it just worked one way not both.

The Premier League told BBC Sport: "The VAR has to judge offside based on the evidence provided. Once the line is drawn it becomes objective as the player is either onside or offside".

Why doesn't it surprise me that they're sticking to their guns that the technology is 100% accurate. So they're saying "once the subjective line is drawn it becomes objective". So depressing that they're not learning from these horrible failures.
That's a disgrace. The notion that an arbitrarily drawn line, based on guesswork, is somehow "objective" in nature is fucking farcical. If you'd given the image of Son and Evans to a hundred referees to choose which pixel represents the point at which Son's arm merges with his shoulder underneath his shirt, you'd get back dozens of different answers. It's a subjective matter of opinion and everyone who witnessed what took place yesterday knows it.

The league should have the integrity to put their hands up, admit that this is new and that their initial construal of the offside decision technology has been proven wrong by events, and that they're going to sort it out. Carrying on with the pretense that the human operator of the software can make opinion-driven decisions that nevertheless somehow stand as "objective proof" is weak and dishonest.
 

markdadude

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Socrates saves an aston villa equaliser with his arm just now. The ref doesn't call it and VAR doesn't intervene. Maybe the point is to make such a pigs ear of VAR that it's scrapped altogether?
 

SargeantMeatCurtains

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So VAR can make a decision on a MARGINAL offside but it can’t give this regulation hand ball?

I think that’s just over 60 decisions now they have been referred to VAR and not a single decision has been overturned.

The PL are a fucking disgrace. It is no wonder they were certain VAR would not slow down the game because they do not fucking use it. It’s an absolute cluster fuck when a man who has been deemed the BEST of the BEST when it comes to refereeing in the UK can’t spot that in real time on the field. It’s pure dangerous negligence by the PL and it’s starting to make me believe that VAR operators are being told not to go against any on field decisions.
 

spud

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Then whoever rationalized that is clearly a very ignorant person, simple as that. Anyone who has ever measured anything with any device invented by mankind knows there's not such thing as an exact measurement, so it's impossible for offside decisions to always be black or white. This is one of the most fundamental concepts in experimental physics ffs!
If you expect the people who run football to have even a small percentage of the intelligence (and integrity) of those practising experimental physics then you, sir, are the world's supreme optimist.
 

stevenurse

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Exactly
View attachment 55606

So VAR can make a decision on a MARGINAL offside but it can’t give this regulation hand ball?

I think that’s just over 60 decisions now they have been referred to VAR and not a single decision has been overturned.

The PL are a fucking disgrace. It is no wonder they were certain VAR would not slow down the game because they do not fucking use it. It’s an absolute cluster fuck when a man who has been deemed the BEST of the BEST when it comes to refereeing in the UK can’t spot that in real time on the field. It’s pure dangerous negligence by the PL and it’s starting to make me believe that VAR operators are being told not to go against any on field decisions.
Exactly my point previously. Not once has VAR been used to go against a referees decision in terms of a penalty. A few offsides where it can't be argued, then our one... But aside from that it seems you have to almost murder someone for VAR to intervene. I can't decide if it's arrogance of the FA to pretend the officials don't get decisions wrong, or ineptitude of the VAR teams. Either way, the technology brought in to eradicate contentious decisions has cocked things up royally.
 

theShiznit

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It seems the refs have all got together and decided they don't want to be bottom (or top depending how you see it) of the overturned shit decisions table, so we'll spout some bullshit to the public about a "threshold" and change nothing.

Making VAR effectively a glorified offside machine flawed by frame rates and starting points.

If it is to survive it needs to be outsourced and not done by Premier League referees. And they need to add second yellow cards (removal or addition) as they can be massive game changers.
 

shelfmonkey

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There's a very pungent fishy smell emanating from the PL in regard to VAR!
 

panoma

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The way VAR is being used in the PL is very dangerous for the league imo.

I watch way to much football, but notice that I often no longer cheer straight after a goal due to the chance VAR will disallow it. This is not just when watching Spurs, but also when watching other teams.

Im addition they never seem to bother with even the most obvious penalties. Comical stuff.

Point is my enthusiasm is dwindling and I'm sure others feel the same and THAT is bad for the league.
 

allatsea

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The way VAR is being used in the PL is very dangerous for the league imo.

I watch way to much football, but notice that I often no longer cheer straight after a goal due to the chance VAR will disallow it. This is not just when watching Spurs, but also when watching other teams.

Im addition they never seem to bother with even the most obvious penalties. Comical stuff.

Point is my enthusiasm is dwindling and I'm sure others feel the same and THAT is bad for the league.
Drip drip drip. Add your comments onto the ever increasing cost of getting too and then watching games, or cost of Sky etc., and gradually people will fall out of love with the game. All this is made worse by the PL title being a two team affair with everyone else as also rans. Dangerous times for the game IMO.
 

SpartanSpur

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I was pro-VAR mainly for the obvious errors such as Leicester's goal Saturday or the penalties not given for Villa yesterday and City at Bournemouth, plus in my opinion Kane vs Newcastle. The way VAR is being implemented in the PL is an absolute farce and it making a mockery of the PGMOL in my opinion. If they think they are backing their own by refusing to overturn penalty decisions then they are grossly mistaken.

I've noticed the pro-refs guy from earlier in the thread has been quiet this weekend. It getting to the point where it's becoming indefensible really. It should be assisting the game but it is genuinely taking away from it in it's current application.

I think a good place to start is to have ref's using the monitors for penalty shouts, I'm certain a few would have been given rather than the big fat zero given by VAR.
 
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