Ratings vs Manu

[THFCSPURS19]

A hidden agenda from a lot of negative fans on this forum I am afraid mate. I did put up a post in the match thread. Suggesting we bought on Lamela as we needed a viable scapegoat (tongue in cheek of course). Perhaps that ignited a few in here that aspire to blame all things bad at the club on Erik.

I'm confused after reading your ratings

 

[mpickard2087]

On one hand I don't really want to comment on individuals. This is a young team. A number of the players are still quite inexperienced and finding their feet in the PL and are not the finished article. There will be games where they make mistakes. There will be games where they struggle to cope. There will be defeats that come with this, and possibly bad defeats at that. It wont be the last time. We have to be patient, believe in what we are doing re. greater emphasis on younger players and use of the academy, and not over-react when we hit a blip.

However having said all that, these players need the right tactical plan to give them the best structure possible to help them function and then hopefully shine. Whatever the state of the game, winning or losing. Today that just wasn't in place.

I think we all were possibly a bit carried away about taking the game to an unconvincing Utd team, but in these 'big games' I have consistently said that you have to be disciplined first and foremost, win the midfield and make sure you win the battle for possession of the ball. You can use it for whatever means, probe away and try to attack or use it as a defensive tool. You need to be solid and have 11 men who put in a real shift, and be tactically spot on and adjust to threats.

Unfortunately yet again we did things the Tottenham way. We put out the same team in the same shape as we usually do and didn't really pay any attention to the opposition or pay them much respect. Poch was his usual inflexible self... 4-2-3-1, try to press them, play with a bit of tempo... And that's about it as far as tactics went.

The results from the off were horrific. We flailed around as our tactics and gameplan unravelled, and it became apparent we didn't have any ideas about how to contain certain players that Utd have. Our passive front four didn't press very well, the CM2 were completely swamped, no one had any idea about how we went about containing Fellaini and we didn't have any ideas about how to counter-act their high-ish press and attempts to squeeze us up the pitch.

Some of it was very preventable as well. Not man marking Fellaini for example. If anyone needs to be marked very tightly and wrestled at a corner its him. Instead we stick with zonal marking and allow him a free run to attack the ball. For me it was a hole in our tactical set up and preparation for the game. The extra 1% that we didn't put in place. The things that separate the best managers and makes them stand out.

Very early on we needed someone to recognise this wasn't working. For me we had to drop back into two banks of four, have Eriksen stood on Carrick, dropped deeper and tried to play on the counter. It worked Away vs. Arsenal, we havent seen it employed again. Baffling. Instead we got half hearted pressing attempts, far too many passive players and continued chaos. Bringing Dembele on was just shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. The damage was done and he didn't even attempt to change anything tactically. We got individuals running around wherever they wanted and they waltzed through our shambolic and extremely open team.

Team selection was asking for trouble. Chadli + Townsend was wrong. I think Eriksen has been poor for ages now and also cannot be depended on to put a shift in and press well. 4-2-3-1 in these games is just wrong. I'm not Dembele's biggest fan, but he had to play for useful ball retention and to add to the midfield numbers and presence. I'm also not Fazio's biggest fan, but when we should be sitting deep and playing on the counter in this game, and they have Fellaini, I cannot think of a more suitable game for him.

In these games you have to go with a 4-3-3. As I said earlier you have to win midfield and win the battle for possession. Something like:

Walker Dier/Fazio Vertonghen Rose
Mason MIDFIELD ANCHOR Bentaleb
Dembele Kane Lamela​

I'd like us to sit a bit deeper too and soak up pressure at times. We are far too open and don't learn. Maybe one day...

I'm rambling now so all I will say is that this was a prime example of Poch's weaknesses today. I wish he would consider things a bit more and be more flexible at times. Both before and during games. He has to start learning. The truth is that Plan A isn't good enough to be able to stick with till the very end and employ every single game. I hope we get a change...




Lloris - I felt he sat down for the first goal and maybe could have done better. No real blame attached today though. In front of him is where things went very wrong.

Walker - Oh dear. Given something to think about, his brain just completely frazzled. Must improve sharpish.

Dier - Tough afternoon for him. Needs to use it as a learning experience.

Vertonghen - Not a lot of obvious errors, was hardly the rock in defence though.

Rose - The one possible decent enough game in a sea of absolute shite.

Mason - Completely over-run.

Bentaleb - Ditto. Plus gave the ball away for one of the goals.

Townsend - No impact. I thought he did a bit more off the ball than Chadli though and because of that he was less deserving of being subbed off.

Eriksen - Flimsy in the extreme.

Chadli - Pathetic contribution.

Kane - Should have put different boots on. Slipped over about 200 times.

Subs:
Dembele - Saw a fair amount of ball, did benefit from Utd 'managing' the second half and easing off.

Ade/Lamela - N/A.

 

[mpickard2087]

A hidden agenda from a lot of negative fans on this forum I am afraid mate. I did put up a post in the match thread. Suggesting we bought on Lamela as we needed a viable scapegoat (tongue in cheek of course). Perhaps that ignited a few in here that aspire to blame all things bad at the club on Erik.

It was meant both ways to be honest... People who don't like him said there bit bizarrely when he was a late sub, people who do bigged up the one pass he did make, which was nothing more than ok, in retaliation. Just unnecessary today as the game was over when he came on and his performance is about the least needed discussion today after all that went wrong.

Anyway...

 

[mrlilywhite]

I'm confused after reading your ratings

What are you confused about, in relation to my ratings?

 

[felmani26]

I'm not his biggest advocate but wouldn't playing Fazio to combat Fellaini aerially would have been preferable to Dier?

We just seem to have a default lineup and seemingly don't even look at our options to counter oppositions threats - it's an Achilles heel with Pochettino.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

What are you confused about, in relation to my ratings?

You said this:

Lamela: What can I say Erik? People are losing faith very quickly, and you ain't giving them cause to doubt their reasons. To be fair, there has to be question marks over all of our wide attacking players inability to perform on a consistent basis. Done much of the same today, and I fear Poch might just be looking at alternatives this summer. A shame, as in there is a player that has a lot of technical ability. Done as much as anyone else or as little 4.7

Then said this:

A hidden agenda from a lot of negative fans on this forum I am afraid mate. I did put up a post in the match thread. Suggesting we bought on Lamela as we needed a viable scapegoat (tongue in cheek of course). Perhaps that ignited a few in here that aspire to blame all things bad at the club on Erik.

I find your analysis of Lamela's performance strange. You've said he was as bad as Bentaleb, only slightly better than Chadli, and worse than Dier.

Considering your second comment, your ratings baffled me.

 

[Shea]

Lloris- 6 - Being harsh I think he could have possibly saved the first and third goals but neither were remotely his fault
Dier-4 - Shockingly poor today, positionally useless, weak and slow. Let Fellaini climb all over him for Carricks goal and was being bipassed at will by the Utd attack, he was worse than Ginger Pele today.
Verts- 5- Again very very poor, I look at him to be the leader of that back line with his experience, the man to make a group of talented individual players a functional unit. I have however long since realised this is not something he is capable of and he is just an individual defender. Today he was poor on an individual level also
Walker- 4- Just awful today. He was left exposed by Townsend and then Chadli but he constantly failed to anticipate the play and United focused on him as a weak link and exposed him time and time again. He was terrible, offered nothing going forward and looked like a school boy playing against men in defense


Mason- 5 - He was shown up today, Michael Carrick illustrated the difference in class and experience and gave Mason a schooling. Talented lad and clearly has the right attitude but today he was a chicken with his head cut off and lost the midfield battle. Neither protected the defence nor supported the attack and was all over the place while the Utd players dissected us with ease. Looked lost and showed that really he should still be a rotation player learning his trade from someone with Carrick's experience and class
Bentaleb- 4 - probably the worst game I have seen him play. Looked shell shocked first half after we fell so far behind so quickly. His wayward pass for their third was the nail in our already closed coffin but he looked nervous from the start, the game was beyond him and they ran him over like a deer in the headlights of a MAC truck. Better second half maybe, but largely because Utd seemed happy to contain us and hold what they had instead of trying to really stretch us

Townsend- 4- The fact he was brought off after half an hour says it all. Did nothing right. Not once did he make a good pass or run at them trying to make something happen and he failed to offer anything actual support to Walker when they attacked. On the odd occasion he was actually there to support Walker his positional sense was so stupid that he was taken out of the equation with a simple pass and might as well have just stayed up field
Chadli- 4 - Equally poor, in fact when Demebele came on I was expecting Chadli to be the man pulled off. Again he did nothing to offer an offensive threat or support the cause in defense. Like most the team he looked like an inexperienced boy getting schooled by a team of men
Eriksen- 5 - There where times when he made some nice touches and it looked like he was going to get beyond his man and start an attack but nothing ever materialised. He was basically a passenger. He had no movement of his own and his team mates offered nothing in terms of movement for an outlet when he had the ball

Kane- 6 - I felt a little sorry for him today because he was given no support and no service, at times he was being man marked by 3 defenders and easily contained whenever the ball was near him. He himself put the effort in and did what he could, tracked back and tried to get us going but the rest of the team were so poor and he was completely isolated. Unlucky not to score his only shot on target but nothing was going right for him today and he was slipping and falling, failing to beat his man and just looked poor compared to his recent form

Subs:
Dembele- 6 -It was the right move to bring him on, he played well but only compared to the shit around him. On a normal day he'd probably be considered to have played poorly but he was slightly better than the rest of the team and he did at least look like he stopped some of the rot - too little too late though of course
Lamela- 6 - At least showed some effort and work rate. Put some tackles in, tried to make a run or two. Nothing really worked but at least he wasn't as shit as the bulk of the team. Never going to be a star but at least he works hard I guess, just a shame we paid so much for him as he was clearly over valued.
Adebayor-6 - Did nothing but had no chance to do anything so I can't give him anything other than the 6 I see as the starting point value

All in all it was just a nightmare of a game and I am some what relieved we only lost 3-0 as we could just have easily taken a heavy beating on the day. One to dust ourselves off from and look for a strong response in our next outing
CL/Top 4 is now beyond us in my opinion but we have a lot of games still to play and I want to see signs of progression and development. I want to see the formation of a team and a cohesive unit, more important than results I want to start seeing some performances that make me think we're heading in the right direction and that next season will be better

Clearly we need to get things right in the transfer market this summer - will be interesting to see who steps up and stakes a claim for regular first team football and who fades away and starts having their mind on their summer holidays now

 

[double0]

What a disaster. We froze but also ManU played well.

I don't totally blame our midfield united had a clear tactic to hit Fellenini they bypassed the midfield and let's be honest Mason or anyone else bar Fazio can't compete in the air with him. I thought our CB again were atrocious, shameful not identifying what united were doing and not coming out to challenge.

Lloris 4 I thought the first goal was soft

Walker 3 got ripped to pieces not intirely his fault but wow was he taken to the cleaners united targeted him and he wasn't given any real help.

Dier 4 I swear he was the only one defender that was defending, but for Rooney goal where he got his feet mixed up was passable.
Vertonghen 2 disgraceful sorry but he is sh##. He ain't a defender he could see what was going on and imo hid he never once challenged in the air and was as slow as a snale...need to upgrade.

Rose 6 the best of a bad bunch.

Mason 4 united went diagonally long the midfield was bypassed and he was up against Fellenini in the air what a miss match.

Bentaleb 4 as Mason, second half redeemed creditabilty.

Chadli 3 poor did not track on the first goal also poor clearance for second. Wasn't happy with his performance

Townsend 3 did not defend well enough and was dragged off.

Eriksen 4 far to many wayward passes could not dictate or control the game for us

Kane 4 the lone ranger over crowded no service just tactically out done.

Pochettinho 3 tactically out mastered we could not come with the long ball.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Player ratings have all been done but I think a 1 or 2 for Poch is justified.

Incredibly naive team selection and made even more frustrating by the fact that he knew that Dembele was an option as he made the change.

I don't think Poch has the tools to make us consistently able to match teams like United at the moment but he has to do better than just 'keeping a winning team'.

 

[Mr Pink]

Player ratings have all been done but I think a 1 or 2 for Poch is justified.

Incredibly naive team selection and made even more frustrating by the fact that he knew that Dembele was an option as he made the change.

I don't think Poch has the tools to make us consistently able to match teams like United at the moment but he has to do better than just 'keeping a winning team'.

Even more importantly, its an option that has worked really well previously. That's what makes it so perplexing.

Even against QPR and Swansea the warning signs were there in terms of how many chances they were creating.

Chadli and Towsend both starting renders our pressing from the front ineffective. That's where the problem is stemming from IMO.

 

[mrlilywhite]

You said this:

Lamela: What can I say Erik? People are losing faith very quickly, and you ain't giving them cause to doubt their reasons. To be fair, there has to be question marks over all of our wide attacking players inability to perform on a consistent basis. Done much of the same today, and I fear Poch might just be looking at alternatives this summer. A shame, as in there is a player that has a lot of technical ability. Done as much as anyone else or as little 4.7

Then said this:



I find your analysis of Lamela's performance strange. You've said he was as bad as Bentaleb, only slightly better than Chadli, and worse than Dier.

Considering your second comment, your ratings baffled me.

Given that Erik was on the pitch for a lot less than the mentioned players, I felt his rating warranted the amount of time he had for the input he gave, though by that token then so should the poorer players mentioned be given a lower rating. Upon reflection, perhaps he should have had a higher rating than the one I gave.

I do worry though that we might be hitting a wall with Erik, and being one of his bigger advocates on here, I sincerely hope we have not. That said I do feel that none of our wide players have offered anything near what you would like to expect from them. I do wonder what the real influence is? Them, the system, the players around them? Surely all 3 of them can't be that poor!?

I do see a lot of what Lamela and Chadli can offer, and with former I see frailties in his game, that are correctly picked up on, but more importantly, I see a lot of positives that the many naysayers on here do not, as I know you do too. The question remains though, can he make it here?

 

[ohtottenham!]

Even more importantly, its an option that has worked really well previously. That's what makes it so perplexing.

Even against QPR and Swansea the warning signs were there in terms of how many chances they were creating.

Chadli and Towsend both starting renders our pressing from the front ineffective. That's where the problem is stemming from IMO.

Agree with this Pink, IMO, Dembele should've been there from the start at the expense of Andros, would have shored up our midfield and stopped Utd dissecting us centrally. Andros was no help to Walker on the right. Walker could have handled Young far more easily on the wing if he had the confidence that Young had fewer options to turn to inside the midfield.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Very early on we needed someone to recognise this wasn't working. For me we had to drop back into two banks of four, have Eriksen stood on Carrick, dropped deeper and tried to play on the counter. It worked Away vs. Arsenal, we havent seen it employed again. Baffling.


.[/QUOTE

Yep , however BC assures me this wasn't a plan , but rather an accident on the day . I'm not sure myself . THIS should be our alternative game plan vs the top teams . The Poch one-size-fits-all tactical plan is looking increasingly inept

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The Perfect Shitstorm

Here's the thing. I don't think ManU were that great today, despite the pundits all sucking each off about them. I think what we served up today was so bad it made them look good. Don't get me wrong, I think they have been playing better than some have been saying, and they should have been about 5-0 up at WHL before they run out of gas for the second half. So you'd think we'd have our card well and truly marked.

I don't understand why Pochettino can't ever consider a tactical change of shape, it doesn't mean the over arching philosophy has to change. Why couldn't go 433 away at OT. And why can't we be a bit better organised at set pieces etc. A bit more aware oif the dangers that particular opponents provide ?

We'd been handed the formula for success. Finally seen the fruition of the Pochettino's months on the training ground. We'd cracked it right ? It would appear not, that Arsenal/Liverpool torrent of tempo seems like a very distant memory now.

I don't mind a manager with a blinkered approach as long as those blinkers enable all efforts in that one direction to be concentrated, uncompromising and committed.

For some inexplicable reason, Pochettino has continually picked players that aren't symbiotic with how he wants us to play. This has had a knock-on effect. We have only won two of our last seven games since Townsend and/or Chadli have been re-introduced. Both were woeful at Wembley with Chadli's laziness costing us the first goal. Townsend's been poor in every game he's started, been subbed every time (73, 60, 61, 64, 65, and today 31) yet has continually been selected.

What happens is Kane and Eriksen will run around trying to press, but Townsend and Chadli just amble around, this means no pressure on the ball, the press fails and worse this exposes our 2 man CM and pulls them out of position which in turn leaves gaps between lines which exposes the defence. This was how we conceded the first goal today, Townsend ambles instead of pressing properly, this allows the defender to pick an easy pass to Carrick which means Mason has to dash out, leaving Fellani (who Walker also doesn't read the danger of) acres of space. Walker and Dier could have done better but the whole clusterfuck starts upfield with half arsed defending from the front by Townsend.

The pundits and people on here keep saying we don't make runs in behind, but I don't think that's true, I think people do make runs, maybe not as many as we'd like but they do make them, the bigger problem for me as that none of the players we have are very good at seeing and executing the ball to them. A great example of this came in the opening few minutes when Chadli had an opportunity to play a great through ball on the left to Kane (I think) and he just fucking shanks the fairly simple pass. This is a feature of every game I watch. In fact it is what inspired the "Tao of Eriksen" thread. Because he's as guilty as anyone. I expect Townsend to be a headless chicken but I really expect Eriksen's ability to play an incisive pass to better than it has been throughout this season. And this is the problem. Kane is very head down, tunnel vision. Chadli is erratic at best. Townsend wears his head in his arse, Mason is not delivering incisive final third passing and neither is Bentaleb. Walker hasn't done anything constructive in the final third for a couple of years, and Rose is only very marginally more adroit.

The problem for me is not people making (or not making) runs, it's who the fuck is going to find that run. Which is another reason I don't understand picking Townsend over Lamela. We all know Lamela's flawed, but once again he played the only incisive pass for us in this whole game.

So the selections aren't conducive, that fucks with the tactics that Pochettino wants us to impose, then added to that we have a bunch of individuals having fucking nightmares. Walker was once again at the hub of much of the fuctardial bollocks. Stupid flappy back passes, poor reading of danger, giving the ball away inanely, getting skanked by his man, just switching off completely at the corner for the second and leaving Carrick to score the easiest goal of his career, the list of stupid shit gets bigger every week.

Dier had his worst game in a Spurs shirt. Complicit in every goal in varying degrees. Slow to read the danger of Fellani for the first, too passive on the corner for the second and just makes a mess of tackling Rooney for the third.

Mason and Bentaleb were both pretty poor, but as with earlier in the season, some of their poorness was inflicted by the lazy shit going on ahead and around them. Not so the mistake that started the sequence for the third goal though, just a sloppy giveaway by Bentaleb who then failed to recover the situation as well.

Nobody had a good game. Rose and Vertonghen perhaps the least shit of a pretty shit bunch.

The second half was a non event with Utd just shelling it and us timidly fiddling about like lobotomised fuckwits in a rubics cube theme park.

Individual character assassinations:

Lloris - I though a bit flat footed for the first but maybe I'm being harsh.

Walker - He's a fucking cretin.

Dier - Very bad day at the office.

Vertonghen - OK.

Rose - OK.

Mason - Not helped by those around, but still not good.

Bentaleb - Bad error for the third. Like Mason not helped by those around but still a poor game.

Townsend - very poor but I blame Pochettino for the idiotic decision to keep picking him when he isn't compatible with his philosophy and produces next to fuck all game after game.

Eriksen - Created fuck all for anyone and bottled a few challenges. Poor game.

Chadli - He has his moments but a lot of what he does is very frustrating. Very poor game today.

Kane - Tried. But failed. Miserably.

Dembele - OK but uninspiring.

 

[thinktank]

T

Individual character assassinations:

Lloris - I though a bit flat footed for the first but maybe I'm being harsh.

Walker - He's a fucking cretin.

Dier - Very bad day at the office.

Vertonghen - OK.

Rose - OK.

Mason - Not helped by those around, but still not good.

Bentaleb - Bad error for the third. Like Mason not helped by those around but still a poor game.

Townsend - very poor but I blame Pochettino for the idiotic decision to keep picking him when he isn't compatible with his philosophy and produces next to fuck all game after game.

Eriksen - Created fuck all for anyone and bottled a few challenges. Poor game.

Chadli - He has his moments but a lot of what he does is very frustrating. Very poor game today.

Kane - Tried. But failed.

Dembele - OK but uninspiring.

Oh god, spat my fucking tea out.

 

[CrazyHeart]

Interesting how Kane gets a pass today. When the team doesn't produce, it's their fault but when it's Kane - Oh no... not his fault, lack of service. Let's get real - Kane didn't play well just like the others today. The sooner we accept that then maybe it might elevate our standards just a little. No player should be exempt from criticism.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

On one hand I don't really want to comment on individuals. This is a young team. A number of the players are still quite inexperienced and finding their feet in the PL and are not the finished article. There will be games where they make mistakes. There will be games where they struggle to cope. There will be defeats that come with this, and possibly bad defeats at that. It wont be the last time. We have to be patient, believe in what we are doing re. greater emphasis on younger players and use of the academy, and not over-react when we hit a blip.

However having said all that, these players need the right tactical plan to give them the best structure possible to help them function and then hopefully shine. Whatever the state of the game, winning or losing. Today that just wasn't in place.

I think we all were possibly a bit carried away about taking the game to an unconvincing Utd team, but in these 'big games' I have consistently said that you have to be disciplined first and foremost, win the midfield and make sure you win the battle for possession of the ball. You can use it for whatever means, probe away and try to attack or use it as a defensive tool. You need to be solid and have 11 men who put in a real shift, and be tactically spot on and adjust to threats.

Unfortunately yet again we did things the Tottenham way. We put out the same team in the same shape as we usually do and didn't really pay any attention to the opposition or pay them much respect. Poch was his usual inflexible self... 4-2-3-1, try to press them, play with a bit of tempo... And that's about it as far as tactics went.

The results from the off were horrific. We flailed around as our tactics and gameplan unravelled, and it became apparent we didn't have any ideas about how to contain certain players that Utd have. Our passive front four didn't press very well, the CM2 were completely swamped, no one had any idea about how we went about containing Fellaini and we didn't have any ideas about how to counter-act their high-ish press and attempts to squeeze us up the pitch.

Some of it was very preventable as well. Not man marking Fellaini for example. If anyone needs to be marked very tightly and wrestled at a corner its him. Instead we stick with zonal marking and allow him a free run to attack the ball. For me it was a hole in our tactical set up and preparation for the game. The extra 1% that we didn't put in place. The things that separate the best managers and makes them stand out.

Very early on we needed someone to recognise this wasn't working. For me we had to drop back into two banks of four, have Eriksen stood on Carrick, dropped deeper and tried to play on the counter. It worked Away vs. Arsenal, we havent seen it employed again. Baffling. Instead we got half hearted pressing attempts, far too many passive players and continued chaos. Bringing Dembele on was just shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. The damage was done and he didn't even attempt to change anything tactically. We got individuals running around wherever they wanted and they waltzed through our shambolic and extremely open team.

Team selection was asking for trouble. Chadli + Townsend was wrong. I think Eriksen has been poor for ages now and also cannot be depended on to put a shift in and press well. 4-2-3-1 in these games is just wrong. I'm not Dembele's biggest fan, but he had to play for useful ball retention and to add to the midfield numbers and presence. I'm also not Fazio's biggest fan, but when we should be sitting deep and playing on the counter in this game, and they have Fellaini, I cannot think of a more suitable game for him.

In these games you have to go with a 4-3-3. As I said earlier you have to win midfield and win the battle for possession. Something like:

Walker Dier/Fazio Vertonghen Rose
Mason MIDFIELD ANCHOR Bentaleb
Dembele Kane Lamela​

I'd like us to sit a bit deeper too and soak up pressure at times. We are far too open and don't learn. Maybe one day...

I'm rambling now so all I will say is that this was a prime example of Poch's weaknesses today. I wish he would consider things a bit more and be more flexible at times. Both before and during games. He has to start learning. The truth is that Plan A isn't good enough to be able to stick with till the very end and employ every single game. I hope we get a change...




Lloris - I felt he sat down for the first goal and maybe could have done better. No real blame attached today though. In front of him is where things went very wrong.

Walker - Oh dear. Given something to think about, his brain just completely frazzled. Must improve sharpish.

Dier - Tough afternoon for him. Needs to use it as a learning experience.

Vertonghen - Not a lot of obvious errors, was hardly the rock in defence though.

Rose - The one possible decent enough game in a sea of absolute shite.

Mason - Completely over-run.

Bentaleb - Ditto. Plus gave the ball away for one of the goals.

Townsend - No impact. I thought he did a bit more off the ball than Chadli though and because of that he was less deserving of being subbed off.

Eriksen - Flimsy in the extreme.

Chadli - Pathetic contribution.

Kane - Should have put different boots on. Slipped over about 200 times.

Subs:
Dembele - Saw a fair amount of ball, did benefit from Utd 'managing' the second half and easing off.

Ade/Lamela - N/A.

Good post. Particularly this bit.

 

[Borks]

Interesting how Kane gets a pass today. When the team doesn't produce, it's their fault but when it's Kane - Oh no... not his fault, lack of service. Let's get real - Kane didn't play well just like the others today. The sooner we accept that then maybe it might elevate our standards just a little. No player should be exempt from criticism.

I agree; if you're given the credit when you do well, you should be criticised when you play badly. Admittedly nobody is calling for Kane to be dropped but he was beyond shocking today. Still, he's young and will bounce back soon enough.

 

[orkneyspur]

Stopped posting on here a while ago, as I received so much abuse over my criticism of Walker. He still is a cretin!

 

[mpickard2087]

Good post. Particularly this bit.

I dunno about you BC, but every time I try to put full faith in Poch he comes up with silly stuff like today that leaves me a bit wary. I liked what he did at Southampton, I actually think I was one of the earliest posters to muse as to whether he would be a good Spurs manager and what he would bring to the table. I like some, maybe quite a lot, of what he has done with us so far. He's definitely put together a team and fostered a spirit that has got the fans back onside and supportive of, to his credit. I'm of course prepared to give him longer to put the finer touches to how he wants us to play and see it applied more consistently... Problem is that I don't think sticking rigidly to one approach or 'Plan A' every single game is ever going to push us from currently top 6 (just about...) to top four. If we have any chance of that we need someone who is tactically spot on and can read certain situations/matches.

I know we have discussed this quite recently and I don't want to delve back into that specifically, and as we also discussed a tactically astute manager isn't that easy to find. However I just don't see how Poch can push us into those upper echelons (which is surely what we all aim for, it isn't an absolute million miles off despite the gulf in finances) by sticking to 'his' approach every single game and not find some degree of flexibility and subtlety to his approach and considering what the opposition is doing. Its harsh on him, and its early days still so who knows what will happen, but unless he changes how he does things I'm not convinced we will bridge the gap.