Ratings vs Man City

[StartingPrice]

OK , its just that vs Arse we saw what looked like a viable defensive/counter setup . It looked like a Plan B and it worked .

I think taking the opposition into account and setting up accordingly is the way to go .The Jose example of course . Also it makes us less predictable to the opposition . Good footie at City yes, but the result was grim .

TBH, I hate to take the role of blame the ref for everything comedy villain, but...well, it's just that the ref put a huge amount of pressure on us with that ridiculous 1st penalty decision. It was, obviously, to our benefit to keep the game tight and restrict space. The very last thing we want when that happens is to have to chase the game. We had to do it once thanks to Aguero's individual brilliance. We reacted to that pressure brilliantly, with Eriksen's equaliser. The very last thing we want to do, especially against a team as good as Citeh, who smacked us silly last season, away, is put pressure right back on ourselves. We don't. They don't. The ref does it...out of absolutely nothing. The ref doesn't give that and the whole course of the game could and would have been totally different. We would have held far better cards and there is no way of knowing if Aguero could have worked his magic again. Instead, we have the pressure of chasing the game for the rest of the ninety. Even then we didn't crumble. We very nearly got back in it, first with Soldado's penalty which was never a penalty, either (watching Stoke game now...WTF with these nothing penalties), and then with his snap-shot that Hart did brilliantly to keep out. It was only the sucker punch pen/Fazio sending off that did for us - definitely a pen, not sure about the red. Aguero's late goal just rubbed salt into the wounds.

So, really, it was just an atrocious decision that prevented us from following the same game plan as against the Goons. Even that sparked a spirited fight-back with some quality. Only the pen/sending off, and late Ageuro strike against ten tired, because chasing game for long time, players makes the result look much worse than the performance. And that was primarily down to not being able to pursue a game plan due to an atrocious refereeing decision. AGAIN! Really, it wasn't that bad...apart from the final result, and there were some very positive signs. Unlike last season against the Scousers at the Lane, which seemed to finish us in some indefinable way, like the hear twas ripped out of the club, I honestly think this loss could be the making of us.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I think we disagree on "a viable defensive/counter set up". Having 36% of your team effectively take no part in a game is never viable to me.

I don't mind a bit of pragmatism, but what we saw at Arsenal was dire. They walked through our front line of players, pulling our CM2 all over the place (picking mason for this task was naive IMO) and it was only Wenger's poor choice of players and their abysmal application and execution that saw us get away with it.

A good counter attacking policy should involve way more counter attacking than we did that day as well, IMO.

OK we'll forget the Arse match we don't agree on it .

Do we have the ability to do defensive . Can we get ahead in a match and shut it down for the last 30 ? I'm rather hoping we have that in our locker . Simply pursuing one pressing ideal and one philosophy surely will make us predictable .

And yes SP the ref wasn't kind , but we weren't going to win the match imo .

 

[Bus-Conductor]

OK we'll forget the Arse match we don't agree on it .

Do we have the ability to do defensive . Can we get ahead in a match and shut it down for the last 30 ? I'm rather hoping we have that in our locker . Simply pursuing one pressing ideal and one philosophy surely will make us predictable

Agreed. I voiced reservations about Pochettino's methods before he arrived.

I actually don't mind a fairly narrow philosophy as long as it's a good one. A philosophy, no matter how singular, is better than no philosophy IMO. And I think there are very few managers who can operate tactical variety very well. It requires fantastic communication and ability to teach and players who are intellectually malleable.

I think at Southampton it was good, but their were flaws. I hope he can learn to operate a more 90 minute centric policy with us. As I have said, I don't mind pragmatism, but abstain-ism is not an option for me.

 

[StartingPrice]

And yes SP the ref wasn't kind , but we weren't going to win the match imo .

Yes, but I'm not just saying that the referee was unkind to us. I specifically saying that by awarding that pathetically soft pen he put us under the pressure of having to come out and try to get an equaliser. And that, moments after we had just reacted to that same pressure by getting an equaliser from their perfectly fair and excellently executed strike by Aguero. And we played under that pressure for the rest of the game. That one decision altered any tactical predilections we may have had. It was no longer possible for us to invite them on to us and then look to hit them on the break. We had to come out. The onus was on us. And so any tactical plan we may have had had to be jettisoned, too. I am not just bleating about a bad refereeing decision, I am responding to your comment about the way we were set up tactically.

We may not have won that match - but, there again, worse teams us have gone to the Etihad and won this season. Afaiac a draw, or even a narrow loss with a good performance, would have been acceptable in our current stage. But hardly got the chance to find out...because once again we were on the shitty end of a pointy shitty stick decision by a referee.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I get what you mean in as much as Arsenal seemed a more deliberate strategy effected (badly IMO) but I think we disagree on "a viable defensive/counter set up". Having 36% of your team effectively take no part in a game is never viable to me.

I don't mind a bit of pragmatism, but what we saw at Arsenal was dire. They walked through our front line of players, pulling our CM2 all over the place (picking mason for this task was naive IMO) and it was only Wenger's poor choice of players and their abysmal application and execution that saw us get away with it.

A good counter attacking policy should involve way more counter attacking than we did that day as well, IMO.

OK we'll forget the Arse match we don't agree on it .

Do we have the ability to do defensive . Can we get ahead in a match and shut it down for the last 30 ? I'm rather hoping we have that in our locker . Simply pursuing one pressing ideal and one philosophy surely will make us predictable .

And yes SP the ref wasn't kind , but we weren't going to win the match imo .

Just for the record GK, I had added/edited in an initial line to the post you quoted - acknowledging part of your earlier point about the tactics employed - but must have been added in whilst you were in the process of typing an answer.

 

[jonnyp]

How do you explain our performance at arsenal then? They are just as much if not more attacking.

Don't know what you want me to explain. I think we played OK at Arsenal too actually, and we almost won there. I wouldn't say they are more attacking either though.

 

[jonnyp]

MOM Lloris
2nd Mason
3rd Eriksen

We lost the match before it started when Poch selected Fazio at CB. Playing him against Aguerro was a poor tactical decision as he was always going to lack the pace to cope. Fazio isn't to blame for that, he was on to a hiding to nothing and this experience will do nothing for his confidence. We should have waited for the upcoming match against Stoke to give him his premiership debut. Horses for courses.

Don't know why you single out Fazio, all our centrebacks struggled with Aguerro. Kaboul and Verthongen both stood still like statues for two of the goals.

 

[punkisback]

I can't be proud of Spurs after this game. City are a yoyo club who have won the lottery, not giants with a Rich History. We are not plucky little spurs losing graciously to a bigger team, our heritage and history dwarfs there's and I will not have Sky tell me otherwise.

 

[HoltbiusMac]

I can't be proud of Spurs after this game. City are a yoyo club who have won the lottery, not giants with a Rich History. We are not plucky little spurs losing graciously to a bigger team, our heritage and history dwarfs there's and I will not have Sky tell me otherwise.

Unfortunately history is no good defending against Sergio Aguero. You can argue the importance of history but on a match by match basis it makes no real odds. You wouldn't expect Nottingham Forest or Leeds to beat Southampton right now and they've both got more historic success.

 

[punkisback]

I

Unfortunately history is no good defending against Sergio Aguero. You can argue the importance of history but on a match by match basis it makes no real odds. You wouldn't expect Nottingham Forest or Leeds to beat Southampton right now and they've both got more historic success.

I agree. Whilst I certainly respect the effort the players put in, I do not respect City's achievements.

 

[CheeseGromit]

TBH, I hate to take the role of blame the ref for everything comedy villain, but...well, it's just that the ref put a huge amount of pressure on us with that ridiculous 1st penalty decision. It was, obviously, to our benefit to keep the game tight and restrict space. The very last thing we want when that happens is to have to chase the game. We had to do it once thanks to Aguero's individual brilliance. We reacted to that pressure brilliantly, with Eriksen's equaliser. The very last thing we want to do, especially against a team as good as Citeh, who smacked us silly last season, away, is put pressure right back on ourselves. We don't. They don't. The ref does it...out of absolutely nothing. The ref doesn't give that and the whole course of the game could and would have been totally different. We would have held far better cards and there is no way of knowing if Aguero could have worked his magic again. Instead, we have the pressure of chasing the game for the rest of the ninety. Even then we didn't crumble. We very nearly got back in it, first with Soldado's penalty which was never a penalty, either (watching Stoke game now...WTF with these nothing penalties), and then with his snap-shot that Hart did brilliantly to keep out. It was only the sucker punch pen/Fazio sending off that did for us - definitely a pen, not sure about the red. Aguero's late goal just rubbed salt into the wounds.

So, really, it was just an atrocious decision that prevented us from following the same game plan as against the Goons. Even that sparked a spirited fight-back with some quality. Only the pen/sending off, and late Ageuro strike against ten tired, because chasing game for long time, players makes the result look much worse than the performance. And that was primarily down to not being able to pursue a game plan due to an atrocious refereeing decision. AGAIN! Really, it wasn't that bad...apart from the final result, and there were some very positive signs. Unlike last season against the Scousers at the Lane, which seemed to finish us in some indefinable way, like the hear twas ripped out of the club, I honestly think this loss could be the making of us.

The referee's influence on the game has become too critical

Although it is another debate really and one that has been had before but

The standard of refereeing over the week end was very poor. So very little seems to be done about it, at least publicly. The ref's are falling behind the development of the game. Certainly in England the ref's lack leadership and direction. It is an extremely hard job but they are going more and more for soft options.

Just on out game alone how can Moss be a Prem ref but the same can be said of Oliver. Web , retired, was not a good ref really as he was involved in too much controversy which is wrong for the officials.

Some of the vast amounts of the money ( along with Youth development) poured into the game should go on supporting the supporting cast. Refs need to be better supported with the use of technology in the actual play time and in their development.

 

[SlunkSoma]

Just an observation, Capoue seemed to be so far forward at time that meant City broke into space. Not sure if that was a tactic or a maverick player.

Soldados penalty kick was weak, not sure what he was trying. Looked left, rolled it left. Weird.

Mason looked really effective again.

Lamela had a nightmare, seems although he and Eriksen are similar, they haven't worked out how to read each other.

Ref had a stinker, but Fazio made it easy for him. Professional fouls in the box usually equal red cards.

 

[SlunkSoma]

Just an observation, Capoue seemed to be so far forward at time that meant City broke into space. Not sure if that was a tactic or a maverick player.

Soldados penalty kick was weak, not sure what he was trying. Looked left, rolled it left. Weird.

Mason looked really effective again.

Lamela had a nightmare, seems although he and Eriksen are similar, they haven't worked out how to read each other.

Ref had a stinker, but Fazio made it easy for him. Professional fouls in the box usually equal red cards.

 

[fatpiranha]

Don't know why you single out Fazio, all our centrebacks struggled with Aguerro. Kaboul and Verthongen both stood still like statues for two of the goals.

I singled out Fazio because he was so obviously ill designed to play against Aguerro. He may not have made any more mistakes than Kaboul or Verts but that was because he was rarely even in a position to make them. A bit like the striker who misses 5 good chances in a match looks worse than a striker who never even got in the position to miss. Fazio's lack of pace was horribly exposed. Vertonghen should have started but even Chiriches would have been a better choice against Aguerro and that's saying something . Kaboul looked bad because he was doing 2 men's work.

Man City weren't going to be an aerial threat so playing Fazio was just a bad tactical decision by Poch. Our attack looked the best it has all season but Verts and Eunice are our 1st choice CB partnership and to not play them together away at the current champions was baffling.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Mason's passing went to the dogs in the second half. Completed 11/18.

I think Lamela needs to sharpen up his first touch. It's irritating me.

Seems Michael Dawson is still with us and was wearing a Younes Kaboul costume. What a stinker he had.

 

[Shea]

TBH, I hate to take the role of blame the ref for everything comedy villain, but...well, it's just that the ref put a huge amount of pressure on us with that ridiculous 1st penalty decision. It was, obviously, to our benefit to keep the game tight and restrict space. The very last thing we want when that happens is to have to chase the game. We had to do it once thanks to Aguero's individual brilliance. We reacted to that pressure brilliantly, with Eriksen's equaliser. The very last thing we want to do, especially against a team as good as Citeh, who smacked us silly last season, away, is put pressure right back on ourselves. We don't. They don't. The ref does it...out of absolutely nothing. The ref doesn't give that and the whole course of the game could and would have been totally different. We would have held far better cards and there is no way of knowing if Aguero could have worked his magic again. Instead, we have the pressure of chasing the game for the rest of the ninety. Even then we didn't crumble. We very nearly got back in it, first with Soldado's penalty which was never a penalty, either (watching Stoke game now...WTF with these nothing penalties), and then with his snap-shot that Hart did brilliantly to keep out. It was only the sucker punch pen/Fazio sending off that did for us - definitely a pen, not sure about the red. Aguero's late goal just rubbed salt into the wounds.

So, really, it was just an atrocious decision that prevented us from following the same game plan as against the Goons. Even that sparked a spirited fight-back with some quality. Only the pen/sending off, and late Ageuro strike against ten tired, because chasing game for long time, players makes the result look much worse than the performance. And that was primarily down to not being able to pursue a game plan due to an atrocious refereeing decision. AGAIN! Really, it wasn't that bad...apart from the final result, and there were some very positive signs. Unlike last season against the Scousers at the Lane, which seemed to finish us in some indefinable way, like the hear twas ripped out of the club, I honestly think this loss could be the making of us.

I actually agree with every word of this

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Just an observation, Capoue seemed to be so far forward at time that meant City broke into space. Not sure if that was a tactic or a maverick player.

Soldados penalty kick was weak, not sure what he was trying. Looked left, rolled it left. Weird.

Mason looked really effective again.

Lamela had a nightmare, seems although he and Eriksen are similar, they haven't worked out how to read each other.

Ref had a stinker, but Fazio made it easy for him. Professional fouls in the box usually equal red cards.

Maybe he was trying to see which way Hart was going to go. Either way I agree that it was a very limp effort.

 

[SlunkSoma]

Maybe he was trying to see which way Hart was going to go. Either way I agree that it was a very limp effort.

Usually it's eyes one way, ball the other. Or, I'm looking this way and then hammer it that same way. Just spoke of a complete lack of instinct, from low confidence.

 

[StartingPrice]

The referee's influence on the game has become too critical

Although it is another debate really and one that has been had before but

The standard of refereeing over the week end was very poor. So very little seems to be done about it, at least publicly. The ref's are falling behind the development of the game. Certainly in England the ref's lack leadership and direction. It is an extremely hard job but they are going more and more for soft options.

Just on out game alone how can Moss be a Prem ref but the same can be said of Oliver. Web , retired, was not a good ref really as he was involved in too much controversy which is wrong for the officials.

Some of the vast amounts of the money ( along with Youth development) poured into the game should go on supporting the supporting cast. Refs need to be better supported with the use of technology in the actual play time and in their development.

The match officials do have a difficult job. I agree. And maybe more could be done to help them.

But they are making decisions that are gifting some clubs and costing others fortunes. And I do not believe it evens out. That's a cop out. I could enter a large list of truly dreadful decisions that have benefited the Sky 4 and Citeh over the last decade. The best anyone could do in reply is say that Lloris was a bit lucky at OT once...and Jaysus there was enough wringing of hands and soul searching among Spurs fans over that (and United fans having the bare-faced cheek to whinge about it)! But if we just take recent games against Citeh:

Lescott gives Kaboul a forearm smash in the face - a clear red-card offence. Balotelli deliberately kicks a prone Scotty Parker in the head, right in front of the referee - a clear red card offence. So, they should have been down to nine men, but not only are they not penalised but one of the players who should have been off is at hand to get a slightly soft penalty at the death. This game had an impact on whether we attained CL football and the wealth associated with it.

Last season at the Lane: we are a goal down. The ref gives us a free-kick - it wasn't a free-kick in the first place IMHO. But, he gives it and reaches for a yellow card as he deems it a bookable offence. He then realises that he has already booked the Citeh player and decides not to book him. Yeah, I know it wasn't a free-kick, but he thinks it is a bookable offence and makes a conscious decision to be lenient with a Citeh player. From the resulting free-kick Dawson scores - but it is given offside. Now, I know some folk felt it was offside, but I never agreed with that. For a start, these free-kicks, now, are like buzz-saws with attackers and defenders jumping forward and behind an imagined line, making it virtually impossible to judge with the naked eye in real time. Secondly, with the benefit of freeze-frame we can see that there is a Citeh defender sandwiched between Dawson and another Spurs player, a bit (an arm) of one of the two Spurs players looks in that particular frame to be ahead of the Citeh player - but I don't think it is Dawson's, bringing the whole interfering with play thing to bear. Thirdly, the officials are under specific stated instruction to favour the attackers. So, from a situation where it is virtually impossible to tell who is offside or not, in a general sense, and virtually impossible in a specific sense even using freeze-frame, where they are under instruction to favour the attackers, the officials make a conscious decision to give Citeh the advantage of going in at half-time a goal up. They then come out for the second half, and from a terrific Danny Rose challenge, that looked good in real time, and looks superb using reverse angle slow-mo, they somehow see a foul and the ref decides to not only give a penalty but also sees it as a straight red despite the fact that they weren't directly in on goal...oh, and just for good measure, the ref decides it is somehow imperative that he allows virtually the whole Citeh team to crowd him and jostle him, a yellow card offence, and also to wave imaginary cards calling for Danny Rose to be further penalised, another yellow card offence. And what does the ref do? Nothing! So, in the short period before and after half time, we should be facing ten men or less at 1 - 1, but instead we are 2 goals down and reduced to 10 ourselves. Citeh were fantastic on the night, in a footballing sense, but the ref bent over backwards to give them an advantage and it rankles. What rankles even more is the number of our fans who aren't in the least bit angry about this but instead focus all their anger on the team.

And then we have this shite at the weekend. As said above, the ref piled pressure on us to come out, ruining our game-plan, with one ludicrous decision.

The gutless FA make it worse. If they decided to retrospectively punish where it is clear that the ref has been conned it might help - but they are a shower of gutless, cowardly w*nk*rs who choose to ignore Rooney giving a blatant forearm smash or Van Persie raking another players face.

 

[StartingPrice]

I actually agree with every word of this

Don't sound so surprised