PPV Brighton Poll - Did you pay £15

[BringBack_leGin]

The thing is though it's not really about whether we get to watch the games. It's about the fact that they're taking advantage of this awful situation we find ourselves in to test the waters to see how much more they can get away with.

They're banking on the fact that enough people like you will find ways to justify it to themselves and cough up anyway and then before you know it in 5 years time all the headline fixtures like the NLD will be charged at 25 quid PPV on top of your Sky subscription. For the time being it's just the games that wouldn't be on TV otherwise but this is very much the thin end of the wedge and people need to wake the fuck up and realise that.

People need to stop paying this now. Is missing out Spurs Vs fucking Brighton really such a price to pay to nip this in the bud before it's too late?

I don’t need to find a way to justify myself, and wouldn’t have posted in this thread to justify to either if a couple of posters hadn’t gone beyond ‘I don’t like it being ppv’ and actively insulted/ judged people for their mindset.

My only justification to myself in reality is ‘I like watching Spurs, I am able to pay to watch it legally, therefore I will’.

At the end of the day, I hope the pl bring back the free showings, and if they don’t but cancel ppv then I’ll stream again, but it’s not for you nor anyone else to judge how I should value watching Spurs with comments like ‘is missing Spurs v Brighton such a small price to pay’. Maybe I’m a bed ridden hermit living in a remote part of the Lake District with no friends or family and watching Spurs live is the one thing that gives my life meaning.

There are many very valid reasons as to why ppv should be boycotted en masse and they’ve been put across very well by a number of posters. I agree with most of the points made. However, the sanctimony towards those of us who are making a choice we are entitled to make is uncalled for and it’s just a form of cancel culture. This isn’t a freedom fight against a fascist dictator. This is a consumer feeling upset at a product’s pricing. Frankly, I’m more outraged that I can’t get a chomp for 5p these days.

 

[rez9000]

Thanks for the reply, though you didn't address either of the questions i raised, a appreciate the effort made.

Your Ciniworld analogy is not particularly accurate in my view. It would be more like having a Ciniworld card which allowed you to watch 2 movies a day and you turning up to a 3rd and getting upset that you had to pay for it even though you knew all along that only 2 movies were included. I suppose if you really wanted to see that film but didn't want to pay, you could find it online somewhere, but the experience wouldn't be as good. That's exactly what's going on here with PPV. You can still watch it online if that's what you want, and for matches not involving Spurs I certainly wouldn't pay extra for them. But for my team I'm happy to pay for a better experience.

You're absolutely right, I didn't answer the questions and I should have, so I will now:

For me, it doesn't matter if the PPV matches were already picked for TV or not. And that's why my Cineworld analogy (I feel) is actually bang on the money. Your critique of the analogy is what is happening now. Now, yes it's a case of turning up and they saying that they have extra movies available for extra money. That, in itself, I feel is disingenuous anyway, but I suppose the argument is that extra services justify extra cost (but I'll cover that later too). But the future will be precisely as I've described it - with your Cineworld card you can watch as many low-budget independent movies as you like, but the summer blockbusters will all be extra.

The choice for the TV companies should have been: don't show the extra matches at all or don't charge for them. And what really grinds my teeth, what fucks me off the most about it is the fact that they're using the Covid situation to try and justify it, when the situation should actually be used as justification for not trying to get more money out of people. So while the population is affected by economic difficulties, they feel it's acceptable to find a way of getting more money out of people, rather than thinking, "y'know, people's wallets are going to be hurting. Maybe we don't act like unutterable ****s and try and scalp them during times of plenty instead."

I will only start worrying about PPV getting out of control when they start putting headline matches on PPV rather than the subscription channels. Who knows what the future holds, but whilst the biggest football clubs may want to continue with PPV after COVID I think the rest of the league will want to get fans back into stadiums and PPV would severely hinder that process so I can't see it continuing.

Matt, when clubs like Spurs have waiting lists for season tickets in the tens of thousands, there is absolutely no way on Earth that the return of fans will reduce PPV income for a club like us. More widely, with stadia holding at most 75,000 (in the case of Old Trafford), there will always be more people who want to watch as can actually attend. It's naïve to think that this will be temporary - an easement for the fans - it's being done to lay the groundwork for a permanent set up, in which we pay more. Boxing, and UFC (thanks @BringBack_leGin - I'd forgotten about UFC) used to be free but is now firmly PPV. In what way would football be different?

As to not be hypocritical I'll answer your question of "why do we suddenly have access to matches we didn't used to and are being asked to pay extra for them?" The reason is that stadiums are currently closed due to COVID-19 so the clubs don't have the usual problem of "if the games are on TV fans won't come to the stadium" the reason we are being asked to pay "extra" for them is because you've never paid for them in the first place. These games were never due to be televised and do not form part of any of the packages the PL sold to broadcasters. No one had the rights to show these games. You have not paid one single penny to see a second of live football in any of these matches. Do you expect to watch the games for free?

I didn't ask that question. I said that question should be asked instead of asking why we shouldn't pay extra to watch matches that weren't on TV previously.

And the answer to that question is a very simple one: it doesn't cost the PL or the TV companies any extra to broadcast those matches. They will already have access to the coverage (else how could they produce highlight programs?). The coverage is already available and all they need do to provide it is arrange the necessary timeslots for it.

And you need to get around the idea that these matches have a different value to those picked for TV. They don't. The justification for charging someone for something is that it involves cost to the person producing it and therefore we charge the user. This involves virtually zero extra cost to the broadcasters or the PL or the clubs. What this shade of PPV is is akin to is them finding something on the street and then charging you for it.

And it cuts to the heart of your second question. And again, instead of asking that, ask (again) why is it that those matches are suddenly available but weren't before? The excuse that the clubs need money doesn't cut much ice with me. The PL, and football in general, has been recklessly profligate in the last few years, fuelled by the bloated amounts that TV coverage has been pumping into the ecosystem. Why should we now be burdened with the responsibility of helping them navigate their way through difficult times? When we lose our jobs because the businesses we own or work for go bust because of Covid, and we struggle to put food on the table, do the PL or Sky or BT have a whip-round to keep our families from starving? No, they were quite happy shoving staff onto furlough where they lost 20% of their pay packets, or even sacking them outright. And now they want to pull more money out of already depleted pay-packets?

But even then, the main thrust isn't the minutiae of the current situation but the bigger picture - it isn't about what is happening now. It is about what will be done with this in the future. There is no way in Hell that the PL and the TV companies will not continue pushing PPV if we allow it to catch on now. I will wager anyone, in all seriousness, £1,000 in real money that if PPV catches on now, if the minority becomes the majority, then it will become a permanent fixture of TV football matches within the next five years and all the headline matches will be "brought to you on Pay-Per-View. Book your experience NOW by pressing the red button!"

In regards to PPV, I think the PL made a massive marketing mistake in allowing all the matches to be shown on TV after the restart of the COVID break because essentially they gave their product away for free. Now people just expect it to continue and begrudge having to pay for something they got for free for a short time, rather than thinking how great it was that the PL gave them free football.

The reaction to PPV would have been identical. In fact, I think it may even have been worse, because people would have seen it more clearly for what it is - a naked, unabashed long-term money-grab.

 

[Nayim60yards]

There used to be Prem Plus which was a PPV service for additional Premier League games. I'm pretty sure people back then had similar concerns about PPV taking over but instead of that it was Prem Plus that got ousted. Why do people feel it will be massively different this time around?

 

[Deathrod]

Yes I paid.

 

[ILS]

I'm slightly baffled by the OTT response this is getting.

The average attendance for PPV matches have been 39,000. The average attendance of a premiership match is not going to be far off that.

They would be expecting the hardcore fans, the ones that attend matches to pay for it. Which if you look at the numbers, look pretty much spot on. Therefore there is no additional demand from casual fans to pay for the PPV and once fans are allowed back , the numbers do not stack up to continue with it.

Due to my circumstances, I have said that I would love an opportunity to purchase a TV season ticket for Spurs and maybe we will be there one day but at the moment we are still some time away from it.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

The amount they have got from ppv is just peanuts.

They should do the analytics on October's take and then the Government should just give them that much to put it on the BBC in the name of keeping people entertained in lockdown.

Surprised a millionaire or a load of footballers haven't tried to subsidise it.

 

[waresy]

It's actually mental that since they broke Sky's monopoly on game coverage (in order to ensure cheaper prices for people) that we're now paying something like double for the same coverage and that's before we factor in PPV games.

It was a strange thing to rule that it should be split to prevent a monopoly and ensure competition, probably done on the basis that competition would drive down prices. As you say, it just means that we pay twice, or if you factor in Amazon as well their is the third cost which is stupid. All it has meant is that the consumer is screwed over.

There used to be Prem Plus which was a PPV service for additional Premier League games. I'm pretty sure people back then had similar concerns about PPV taking over but instead of that it was Prem Plus that got ousted. Why do people feel it will be massively different this time around?

Prem Plus was the first games I was allowed to have as a teenager thanks to Virgin offering the channel for £1 month instead of £6 a game!

 

[SpursTillIDie1882]

Nope, id never pay and i had a perfect amazing stream.... so many about too, so no need to pay at all

 

[vegassd]

But let me pose an analogy: anyone here ever taken out a Cineworld Card - you know, you pay x amount a month and you can go to the movies as many times as you want?

How would you feel if you rocked up at your local Cineworld, flashed your card for which you've been paying a subscription every month and wanted to see Captain Guardians of the Endgame and they told you, "yeah, sorry, that particular summer blockbuster isn't included in your card anymore, you have to pay extra for that one."?

Now, that's not the situation with football PPV right now... but it inevitably will be.

Thing is, this already happens. You can pay extra for the nice seats, or for the 4DX screenings, or pre-release screenings etc. Like you say, PPV is already a happily accepted part of our lives, as is subscription + PPV. With both those things they live and die based on consumer demand.

I am a Cineworld member myself. If Cineworld were to suddenly make the big movies all PPV I would cancel my membership - it's as simple as that. To Cineworld that means they would get my money for the big films, but not for the small films or for times I can't go to the cinema. Under the subscription model they get my money regardless of how many films I watch, and this is why the subs are so valuable to companies like Cineworld or Sky.

Think of it this way... Sky have been the powerhouse in terms of PL broadcasting for 30 years. They clearly want to make money, but if they were so ruthless and money-grabbing as some are making out they could have doubled their subscription price at any point. The reason they haven't done that is because protecting their subscription base is the best way for them to make money long term.

So I don't think that football will inevitably become a subscription+ model at all. I for one hope that all games went PPV without subs, but that's based on my own circumstances. The bottom line is that football "consumers" have a limit and whilst the TV companies will try and find that limit they aren't going to get ridiculous and risk their prime income source; subscriptions.

You only have to look to boxing to see that. Whereas previously a boxing match may have set you back say a tenner, now it's around the £50 mark, and that's ignoring the habit of charging to watch it on TV anyway. Now, who are the main purveyors of PPV boxing matches in the UK? Sky and BT, right?. Who have the rights to Premier League football?

If you have examples of when those fights were £10 and could then compare that with the CPI you might find there's some inflation going on there. But it's mainly going to be supply and demand.

The TV companies are not working out how much it costs to broadcast a fight and then working out the lowest price to cover those costs. They will sell the fight at the point they think is most profitable and then market the hell out of it within whatever budget they have. If they know a Joshua or McGregor fight is going to be popular they will set the price higher because they know the demand is there.

Comparing boxing or UFC to football is not particularly relevant in my view. They are very different sports that play out in very different ways. I would suggest that the nature of boxing - with big fights happening infrequently - is more suited to having a few mates round and making a night of it. If 5 of you are chipping in a tenner each it's all quite affordable and Sky know this.

If they were to charge £50 for the NLD for example they wouldn't make any money from it. The "big" games in football come so frequently that you can't keep getting the lads together and all chip in a tenner each time. People wouldn't pay big bucks for big games on top of their subscriptions, so they would cancel their subscriptions and find other ways to watch the big games.

I've got a lot of respect for you on this board so I hope you don't find any of the above to be deliberately picking a fight! But I feel there is a lot of unfounded worry about this "inevitable" drift towards TV football costing more than your food bill. Whilst the clubs have us by the balls in terms of matchday, the TV companies exist in a competitive industry with an increasing number of avenues to watch. They will have one eye on maximising profits now and one eye on adapting for the future and not becoming the next Blockbuster.

So whilst they are testing the waters of PPV right now, I would say they are doing so because the current situation makes it less risky, not because they are in some kind of money-lust. Believing that it's all doom and gloom is often not the reality and I think looking at the bigger picture and not just "they are greedy ****s, end of" is a better way to evaluating it.

 

[daveduvet]

Watched on an iPhone app via peacock

 

[Riandor]

I live in Germany so pay monthly for DAZN, with a VPN I can watch DAZN Canada which streams the EPL.

 

[wrd]

Well in what should be a shock to nobody, they're scrapping PPV, apparently too late this weekend as 6 people paid for it already and the concept of refunds does not exist.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Well in what should be a shock to nobody, they're scrapping PPV, apparently too late this weekend as 6 people paid for it already and the concept of refunds does not exist.

Good. Shame it’s being scrapped after I’ll be in for £30 but better later than never I suppose.

 

[JCRD]

I want my money back... Either that or credit to like adult works or something.

 

[nailsy]

So people want us to spend £100m a transfer window and complain when we don't but also want the club to give away the games for free when they aren't getting any gate receipts the Maths definitely adds up.

Who wants us to pay £100m when there are no fans?

Sky Sports subscription is around £30 a month. You get at least thirty games of football. You get all the other sport. They want us to pay £15 a game for PPV. The maths definitely doesn't add up.

Surely they should realise the industry is in a similar position to music 15 years ago. If they cant sort out an affordable and simple solution for high quality content people will take the illegal option. Its a massive risk to the league.

The question is, if the majority are opting to stream illegally, what is the price point for them to actually pay and put some money back into the club? £7.50?

Yep. They're pushing their own customers on to illegal streaming which will cost them more money in the long run.

 

[Mr Pink]

I make huge amount of money.

I'd of paid double tbh

 

[browndchl]

Nope listened to the radio. Just realized I can watch it (Brighton) on Sky demand so downloading it now. Sunday’s match against West Brom is being shown for free from 0130 on Monday morning, so got it set up to record ?

 

[sammyj]

Yes madness I know but had to watch the lillywhite

 

[WePlayWednesday]

I’m not in the U.K. so frequent the streaming match options multiple times per week. Never paid a penny for any of them. If it’s a big game, I would usually go to a bar and put some cash into the local economy here. Or if it’s a Bundesliga game, we would gather as a group of friends, watch together and buy a ton of beer and schnapps for the occasion. Why anyone would pay £15 for a single game is beyond my comprehension.