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How long are you willing to give a manager before declaring they were the wrong choice

How long are you willing to give a manager before declaring they were the wrong choice


  • Total voters
    252

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,623
85,031
Any manager needs time, and we rarely give them that, and backing, and we seem to be inconsistent with that. The classic example of giving a manager time has to be Alex Ferguson. Took him five years to win the league: there was the famous FA cup victory along the way and a second place finish, but otherwise MU finished iith, 6th. 11th before their run of dominance. Would we have kept faith with and continued backing a manager with results like that ? Probably not.
Totally agree. Arsenal should have given Rioch more time and not bothered with Wenger. We should have given Sherwood time and not bothered with Poch.
 

SpursForever71

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
815
2,116
i think the poll should be, how long are you prepared to wait for a new manager, more than how long you give him 😂
 

Chris Flynn

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2012
1,459
3,988
Well i always say 18 months, no more, no less. In fact i dont even watch any games or look at results until then. So ive not seen a lot of games for a while. I assume we're doing ok?
 

Real_madyidd

The best username, unless you are a fucking idiot.
Oct 25, 2004
18,805
12,489
Personally I am already booing not the next manager but the one after that. Boooooooo
 

onthetwo

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2006
4,588
3,410
It’s a directional/momentum issue for me which makes it very subjective unfortunately.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,095
20,667
For me it's about strength of conviction and having a clear plan. The beauty of football is that there's no such thing as a 'perfect tactical approach' and every system has it's pros and cons (think Benitez said football is like having a blanket that's too small for a bed where you focus on covering your feet you leave your head exposed, pull it over your head and your feet pop out).

Nuno got off to a great start results wise but you could see as clear as day that he was never going to last as there was no joined up plan or identify. It looked like the players were just making it up as they went along. There was no point in continuing and giving him more time as it was just delaying the inevitable.

Conte on the other hand had a clear plan and identity. Strong sense of how he wanted to play and drilled the team. It was soul destroying and miserable to watch but it was a clear plan. Only when he started to unravel and the sense of everything being joined up started to fall apart that we could see there was no future.

So my view - Start with an expectation of giving 15 months (season and half) but you know in your gut after the first 10 games if you've got a truly bad manager (Nuno, Sherwood)

Take Mason - been in charge for 4 games and can already see that he's ok... made a few positive changes already and given time I believe he would see us playing slightly more progressively and see us comfortably finish between 6-10th. He's the managerial version of 'should we sign Clement Lenglet', will do a job and not disgrace himself but would show a wider lack of ambition by the club and desire to push on and achieve something.
 
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wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
It’s a directional/momentum issue for me which makes it very subjective unfortunately.

So what are the key things for you, I'm probably asking in two ways, what's the earliest thing that'll make you lose faith and what do you care about the most.

I think the earliest thing for me is the ability to adapt, I never took issue with Jose or Conte style for example because I felt that their systems when fully operational can be great to watch. I'm not too bothered on possession, I actually don't enjoy the Spanish method of boring the opposition to death with sideways passing in the hope the other team loses shape.

I felt Jose's Madrid was devastating on the counter and the speed of play was exciting to me and I thought that Conte's team at inter when they had the ball played out superbly with one touch football from the back. A lot possession % doesn't bother me if the effectiveness of when we have the ball is a high %. So I think what I care about the most is speed of play in the turnover of possession and the quality of it. So Klopp's Liverpool are the best example to me. If I see a slow build up play and I can't see those improvements after they've had two summers then I'm going to be disappointed.

However the earliest sign for me is probably around about 8 months. Once the manager has realised he's not going to have everything he feels he needs at Spurs, they've had two windows to realise this, if I see a manager whose unwilling to find solution and who can't adapt to what the situation is and is showing no signs of them even remotely attempting to and they're unwilling to give different players a chance or they're unwilling to try and find solution in the functionality of the team then I think that's when I know this person will not succeed at Spurs.
 

onthetwo

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2006
4,588
3,410
So what are the key things for you, I'm probably asking in two ways, what's the earliest thing that'll make you lose faith and what do you care about the most.

I think the earliest thing for me is the ability to adapt, I never took issue with Jose or Conte style for example because I felt that their systems when fully operational can be great to watch. I'm not too bothered on possession, I actually don't enjoy the Spanish method of boring the opposition to death with sideways passing in the hope the other team loses shape.

I felt Jose's Madrid was devastating on the counter and the speed of play was exciting to me and I thought that Conte's team at inter when they had the ball played out superbly with one touch football from the back. A lot possession % doesn't bother me if the effectiveness of when we have the ball is a high %. So I think what I care about the most is speed of play in the turnover of possession and the quality of it. So Klopp's Liverpool are the best example to me. If I see a slow build up play and I can't see those improvements after they've had two summers then I'm going to be disappointed.

However the earliest sign for me is probably around about 8 months. Once the manager has realised he's not going to have everything he feels he needs at Spurs, they've had two windows to realise this, if I see a manager whose unwilling to find solution and who can't adapt to what the situation is and is showing no signs of them even remotely attempting to and they're unwilling to give different players a chance or they're unwilling to try and find solution in the functionality of the team then I think that's when I know this person will not succeed at Spurs.
dont disagree with any of that but the more i look at the likes of City and possibly Newcastle and think about the last 5 years at Spurs, the more i think that even though the coach is the heart-beat of the football club, unless all parts (owner, Board, scouts, Academy etc) are in agreement on strategy changing coach wont make any medium to long term difference. United and Chelsea are in the same boat as us for now IMO.......probably Liverpool too so uncomfortably for Levy, he has a tough pier group against which his plan will be compared in the coming weeks and month.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,623
85,031
dont disagree with any of that but the more i look at the likes of City and possibly Newcastle and think about the last 5 years at Spurs, the more i think that even though the coach is the heart-beat of the football club, unless all parts (owner, Board, scouts, Academy etc) are in agreement on strategy changing coach wont make any medium to long term difference. United and Chelsea are in the same boat as us for now IMO.......probably Liverpool too so uncomfortably for Levy, he has a tough pier group against which his plan will be compared in the coming weeks and month.
Agree.

I actually don’t particularly rate Arteta. But Wenger instilled a playing style into the club and they’ve not massively changed it with Emery and Arteta.

If we had a playing style and formation with a buying strategy that supports it, I don’t think the manager choice would be that vital, as long as he is a fit.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
I’m willing to give the manager time, but I’ll need to see some green shoots of improvement as the season goes on. No-one is gonna turn this club around completely in one season, so people need to adjust their expectations.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
9,746
22,161
There is no ‘one size fits all’ amount of time that we need to give a new manager because it doesn’t work like that. It depends entirely on the context.

For example, it was clear pretty much straight away that Nuno wasn’t going to last here. On the other hand, Poch was in danger after a dodgy start to his first season and could’ve easily been sacked if that Villa game didn’t turn in our favour. That clearly would’ve been a big mistake.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,623
85,031
There is no ‘one size fits all’ amount of time that we need to give a new manager because it doesn’t work like that. It depends entirely on the context.

For example, it was clear pretty much straight away that Nuno wasn’t going to last here. On the other hand, Poch was in danger after a dodgy start to his first season and could’ve easily been sacked if that Villa game didn’t turn in our favour. That clearly would’ve been a big mistake.
I know Poch said the Villa game saved his job but I never believed he was on the line to get fired.

Nuno likely would have stayed a bit longer had Conte not suddenly become interested.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
9,746
22,161
I know Poch said the Villa game saved his job but I never believed he was on the line to get fired.

Nuno likely would have stayed a bit longer had Conte not suddenly become interested.
I think that’s probably right, but the fundamental point stands: we don’t operate in a vacuum and there’s no fixed number of games that a new manager should be given. You have to assess it game by game.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,623
85,031
I think that’s probably right, but the fundamental point stands: we don’t operate in a vacuum and there’s no fixed number of games that a new manager should be given. You have to assess it game by game.
Absolutely. Time alone isn’t the factor.

If it was then Arsenal keep Rioch and don’t bother with Wenger, we keep Sherwood and don’t bother with Poch. We keep Ramos and possibly get relegated.
 

Frozen_Waffles

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2005
3,794
9,667
There is no fixed answer to this, but more time than we have been giving them of late.

Both Conte and José were sacked too early. However it was more due to the style of football than how we were doing. Which in itself is a cock up.

But as long as we have a manager who is playing (or trying to play) attacking football and we are not in danger of relegation a season at least I would think.

One thing is certain if there are any players who complain about the manager, then they (the players) should be out the door, not the manager.
 

AllSeeingEye

YP Lee's Spiritual Guide
Apr 20, 2005
3,085
434
No fixed answer but you have to contract for two seasons, any shorter would be weird, and presuming the club do well (+50% win ratio, and knockout stages of any european comp) in the first there should be an extension option. If there is little to split us and the relegation strugglers at any time though then the axe would have to be wielded. This is because we spend a considerable amount on talent, so to have that talent not functioning would be the fault of the manager. For the record I don't believe Conte should have been sacked but there you go... It wasn't ever going to be easy with him.....but in his defence he turned us around from a very obvious decline under Mourinho and Nuno.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
9,746
22,161
There is no fixed answer to this, but more time than we have been giving them of late.

Both Conte and José were sacked too early. However it was more due to the style of football than how we were doing. Which in itself is a cock up.

But as long as we have a manager who is playing (or trying to play) attacking football and we are not in danger of relegation a season at least I would think.

One thing is certain if there are any players who complain about the manager, then they (the players) should be out the door, not the manager.
Jose was sacked too early if only for the fact that he obviously should’ve had the cup final. Conte wasn’t actually sacked, he effectively went on strike.
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,957
12,875
I feel like I have more patience than most. For me it comes down to whether or not I can see continuous signs of growth or the development of a plan.
 

MR_BEN

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2005
3,176
1,603
Why is half time of the first game the earliest option?

Some of us will make our mind up as soon as rumours of the appointment start. No need to wait for an actual game…
 
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