Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[Wadec]

As much as I love Kane, I think you're taking 1 aspect of midfield which is passing and then deciding he could do that role better than Ndombele where there's so many more variables, it's a bit astounding to think Kane could do a better job to be honest.

A bit like those people who think Trent should move to midfield and completely miss what allows Trent to be so devastating from that position.

Agree with this, the reason Kane's passing is so resourceful is based on where he receives the ball in the final third and teams are frightened to give him a scoring opportunity so will show him away from goal. His ability to exploit that is phenomenal.

That wouldn't be the same playing deeper, teams would specifically try and block his passing lanes as the direct threat of goal from him would be less in the middle of the park.

I personally think Harry will get a run of scoring lots without assisting soon as teams will try and counter his passing threat and Harry will take full advantage of that.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

It's just that for the entire time Ndombele has been at the club, Kane has affected the midfield more than he has.

That is not to say that Ndombele when he's properly fit and firing won't be the better midfielder.

But if (hypothetically) Kane refused to play up front and you asked me who would be better in midfield, Kane or Ndombele, I would say on current form Kane. To be honest, that's because there aren't many midfielders who would be better than him.

I don't think that's "silly", and I'm just responding to a debate above. Kane is an amazing footballer. Ndombele is a potentially amazing footballer.

Kane is a striker though. He has been amazingly effective dropping deeper but that’s not the same as playing in midfield. I think some of his effectiveness would be lost if he wasn’t also getting into those attacking spaces because it makes him so hard to pick up. He is finding space because a centre back is never going to follow him out there and lose structure but the midfield also isn’t picking him up.

 

[wrd]

Agree with this, the reason Kane's passing is so resourceful is based on where he receives the ball in the final third and teams are frightened to give him a scoring opportunity so will show him away from goal. His ability to exploit that is phenomenal.

That wouldn't be the same playing deeper, teams would specifically try and block his passing lanes as the direct threat of goal from him would be less in the middle of the park.

I personally think Harry will get a run of scoring lots without assisting soon as teams will try and counter his passing threat and Harry will take full advantage of that.

Yeah people seem to completely ignore the circumstance in which the likes of Trent and Kane are able to play the passes. What got us all excited about Ndombele is he carries the same trait as Dembele which is that he seems to be very difficult to get off the ball, in terms of how he uses the body when on the ball and that he seems to press resistant and can get around players. What makes him different from Dembele is he also has the passing in his locker.

Kane with all due respect would get absolutely eaten alive in the middle of the pitch.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

As much as I love Kane, I think you're taking 1 aspect of midfield which is passing and then deciding he could do that role better than Ndombele where there's so many more variables, it's a bit astounding to think Kane could do a better job to be honest.

I completely agree. It wouldn't even be close IMO.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's just that for the entire time Ndombele has been at the club, Kane has affected the midfield more than he has.

That is not to say that Ndombele when he's properly fit and firing won't be the better midfielder.

But if (hypothetically) Kane refused to play up front and you asked me who would be better in midfield, Kane or Ndombele, I would say on current form Kane. To be honest, that's because there aren't many midfielders who would be better than him.

I don't think that's "silly", and I'm just responding to a debate above. Kane is an amazing footballer. Ndombele is a potentially amazing footballer.

I'm giving up on this. I think it's a semi-interesting debate, but it's one where I am so far away in agreeing that it could even be a close thing I really don't see the point in trying to affect someone's opinion.

Kane, to great effect, drops deep and affects play for those ahead of him. At his best, the ball goes into his feet and he thinks quickly and executes a perfect pass forward. But it's always as a striker - call it a false 9 if you like.

That is very different to being a midfielder. To the work rate required, the tackling, the decisions on when to increase the temp or not, the balls round the corner, the close control required - Tanguy is ahead of him on all those things. He is much more accomplished and skillful technician than Harry IMO, and he's got years of experience playing in midfield.

Harry affects the game brilliantly as a forward, who has license to drop deep or not. He might, in time, might a good central midfielder, but he'll never be as good as Tanguy there.

And 'affecting midfield' by dropping deep (with other players around you, by definition) is very different to being a good midfielder

 

[GLC10]

Tanguy in 2 years will win the Ballon d'Or, I hope he will still be here.

 

[Paraward]

It's just that for the entire time Ndombele has been at the club, Kane has affected the midfield more than he has.

That is not to say that Ndombele when he's properly fit and firing won't be the better midfielder.

But if (hypothetically) Kane refused to play up front and you asked me who would be better in midfield, Kane or Ndombele, I would say on current form Kane. To be honest, that's because there aren't many midfielders who would be better than him.

I don't think that's "silly", and I'm just responding to a debate above. Kane is an amazing footballer. Ndombele is a potentially amazing footballer.

When came all this bullshit of kAnE iS oUr BeSt mIdFiElDeR?, I think it started with the match against Southampton

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think it’s fair to say, regardless of position, that Kane is our best playmaker, and that’s hardly a new phenomenon. He went through a period where his link up play wasn’t as good, but was still scoring at an very good rate, but the Kane we have more and the Kane of his uber years was something to behold. Yes, Eriksen, Dele, even Son racked up more assists, but it helps that they had Kane finishing off the chances they made. To me a playmaker is the guy through win the attack goes through, even if his primary function is goals, and when in song that’s always been Kane, much as it was once Berbatov and before him Sheringham. They also were not midfielders.

 

[wrd]

I think it’s fair to say, regardless of position, that Kane is our best playmaker, and that’s hardly a new phenomenon. He went through a period where his link up play wasn’t as good, but was still scoring at an very good rate, but the Kane we have more and the Kane of his uber years was something to behold. Yes, Eriksen, Dele, even Son racked up more assists, but it helps that they had Kane finishing off the chances they made. To me a playmaker is the guy through win the attack goes through, even if his primary function is goals, and when in song that’s always been Kane, much as it was once Berbatov and before him Sheringham. They also were not midfielders.

I think the problem is there's different aspects and meanings to playmaker. I mean you look at our peak under Poch and everybody said that Eriksen is what made us tick and was our key playmaker but I'd argue and I think the whole Spurs squad would argue, what made us tick was Dembele and everything was flowing through him, be it because he could win the ball and recycle it better than anybody, whether it was his ability to steal 20-30 yards with a run or whether it was his presence creating space so Eriksen could be in space to pass. I'm not articulating it very well but I think the whole playmaker thing is such a broad brush stroke when discussed, so when you say Kane is our best playmaker, I know what you're saying in terms of, he has thus far with the players we have created the most chances for the rest of the team through passing but I anticipate that Ndombele will be the one that everything flows through but depending on his position he will be best our playmaker. Whether that's in a modric way of breaking lines and giving somebody a simple pass to make or whether it's him himself playing more Eriksen style passes remains to be seen.

What's nice is this is such a positive discussion, we're talking about two players, one who is in the top 2 of his position in the world (with Lewadowski) and one who has the potential to be world class and arguably his ceiling could go further and be in the best 1 or 2 in his position in the world like Kane.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Tanguy in 2 years will win the Ballon d'Or, I hope he will still be here.

I love the positivity GLC10 but this is the kind of extremism that then leads the extreme negative responses in this thread. One step at a time, he has shown a lot of improvement this year but he still has a lot to learn. I’d take him getting to the Dembele level (obviously a different player) first where he can consistently dominate and run a midfield.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think the problem is there's different aspects and meanings to playmaker. I mean you look at our peak under Poch and everybody said that Eriksen is what made us tick and was our key playmaker but I'd argue and I think the whole Spurs squad would argue, what made us tick was Dembele and everything was flowing through him, be it because he could win the ball and recycle it better than anybody, whether it was his ability to steal 20-30 yards with a run or whether it was his presence creating space so Eriksen could be in space to pass. I'm not articulating it very well but I think the whole playmaker thing is such a broad brush stroke when discussed, so when you say Kane is our best playmaker, I know what you're saying in terms of, he has thus far with the players we have created the most chances for the rest of the team through passing but I anticipate that Ndombele will be the one that everything flows through but depending on his position he will be best our playmaker. Whether that's in a modric way of breaking lines and giving somebody a simple pass to make or whether it's him himself playing more Eriksen style passes remains to be seen.

What's nice is this is such a positive discussion, we're talking about two players, one who is in the top 2 of his position in the world (with Lewadowski) and one who has the potential to be world class and arguably his ceiling could go further and be in the best 1 or 2 in his position in the world like Kane.

In guess it’s such a subjective thing. To my mind, a playmaker makes the magic happen, regardless of where he of on the pitch, and having several in one team is of course preferable to relying on the one. Ndombele and Lo Celso both have potential to do this but it’s still early? Eriksen certainly did do it, and sometimes Dele and Son, and Dembele in his own way kind of did though I’d say he was more the heartbeat who enable the playmaker. In current circumstances, and not just because of chance creation but also just generally how our part revolves around what he’s doing at any given time, Kane is out main proponent of this, which is fine because frankly there aren’t any players who’d do a better job of it.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I know it’s not a fair comparison, but I think Kane’s a better midfielder than Ndombs.

I love this new video of Kane showing his pure passing side. I reckon he's the 2nd best passer in the league behind KDB. The guy is awesome. I love that one of his strengths from his time in the academy continued to be a major part of his game and get even better. Watching these videos made me think about how many assists he should have if other people could finish. He is literally putting it on a plate for some people. A couple of my favourites are the one to Rose against Barca when he's not even looking and the one to Son at 2:30



Sadly that compilation doesn't have one of his best passes from his first season to Mason. I'm pretty sure most of our fans didn't realise he had that side to his game and I remember it was the first time I saw it in the first team. Fortunately someone caught it in the crowd.

I still don’t know how to quote messages from other threads properly, but my motivation for comparing Kane and Ndombs was coming from a thread with a video showcasing Kane’s midfield qualities and then seeing a video that apparently proved Ndombs’ preeminence in that role. I stand by my comment based on that evidence.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It's just that for the entire time Ndombele has been at the club, Kane has affected the midfield more than he has.

That is not to say that Ndombele when he's properly fit and firing won't be the better midfielder.

But if (hypothetically) Kane refused to play up front and you asked me who would be better in midfield, Kane or Ndombele, I would say on current form Kane. To be honest, that's because there aren't many midfielders who would be better than him.

I don't think that's "silly", and I'm just responding to a debate above. Kane is an amazing footballer. Ndombele is a potentially amazing footballer.

Lol what the fuck? You realise there is more to being a midfielder than passing right? Also have you ever thought that maybe Kane has space and time to make passes because he drops off from his position up front and is therefore unmarked? You don’t get that same space starting in midfield. There is so much more you are discounting in your reductive comparison but I can’t be bothered.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Tanguy is going to solve world hunger (*NOT A FAT JOKE*), reverse climate change and cure Covid-19 in the next year.

This guy is truly amazing.

 

[Bulletspur]

How the hell could the suggestion that Kane is a better midfielder than Tanguy manage to gather roots? At first I humoured those who started the debate as I did not take them seriously, but obviously they were. To say Kane is a better midfielder than Tangay is just plain ludicrous and those who believe that are stupid, their opinion that is. You might a well say Tanguy makes a better striker than Kane!

 

[HodisGawd]

Lol what the fuck? You realise there is more to being a midfielder than passing right? Also have you ever thought that maybe Kane has space and time to make passes because he drops off from his position up front and is therefore unmarked? You don’t get that same space starting in midfield. There is so much more you are discounting in your reductive comparison but I can’t be bothered.

Yes, I do realise playing in midfield is more than passing. And your incredulous reaction highlights the very point I'm making: that we haven't seen Ndombele do much more than some nice passes and a few fancy turns yet.

Until Ndombele does the gritty stuff (which I think he will eventually), Kane has been more effective in those areas. His passing has been better. That is exactly my point.

 

[rsmith]

I've just watched a couple of Newdembele compilations and the thing that stands out for me is how well he completely suckers the opponents around him. Whether it's a 50:50, a dribble, an escape or timing a pass, TN seems able to draw the opponent into committing to the wrong decision. There was a clip v. Chelsea where he managed to draw 3 blue shirts into him before releasing the pass. It's almost like the deception in a magician's act. I literally cannot remember any other player who was so effective at this. imho this not only makes him an exceptional player, but he also makes the players around him look better because he's created space for them.

btw,why is TN's thread in Transfer Rumours. Did I miss something?

 

[McFlash]

I've just watched a couple of Newdembele compilations and the thing that stands out for me is how well he completely suckers the opponents around him. Whether it's a 50:50, a dribble, an escape or timing a pass, TN seems able to draw the opponent into committing to the wrong decision. There was a clip v. Chelsea where he managed to draw 3 blue shirts into him before releasing the pass. It's almost like the deception in a magician's act. I literally cannot remember any other player who was so effective at this. imho this not only makes him an exceptional player, but he also makes the players around him look better because he's created space for them.

btw,why is TN's thread in Transfer Rumours. Did I miss something?

Yes, all the rumours that he wanted to leave and Jose was happy to see him go.
Did you sleep through the transfer window? ?

 

[cozzo]

I've just watched a couple of Newdembele compilations and the thing that stands out for me is how well he completely suckers the opponents around him. Whether it's a 50:50, a dribble, an escape or timing a pass, TN seems able to draw the opponent into committing to the wrong decision. There was a clip v. Chelsea where he managed to draw 3 blue shirts into him before releasing the pass. It's almost like the deception in a magician's act. I literally cannot remember any other player who was so effective at this. imho this not only makes him an exceptional player, but he also makes the players around him look better because he's created space for them.

btw,why is TN's thread in Transfer Rumours. Did I miss something?

we used to want him to leave now we have changed our minds

 

[ohtottenham!]

we used to want him to leave now we have changed our minds

Yes. Early, Bale parallels come to mind.