New manager needs at least 3 Years says Ginola

[beats1]

Newcastle did it in their second season back in the prem.

I said now, I know newcastle did it then but in the last two years the Top 7 have become alot stronger than it was then. The gap between the top 7 and the rest is bigger than its ever been.

Otherwise Southampton would of emulated them this season

 

[Mullers]

I said now, I know newcastle did it then but in the last two years the Top 7 have become alot stronger than it was then. The gap between the top 7 and the rest is bigger than its ever been.

Otherwise Southampton would of emulated them this season

Well I agree with that, I've said we will do well to finish 6th again

 

[SteveH]

The notion that managers need to be given time to be successful ie to improve the team has repeatedly been proven to be false. Almost no club in Europe keeps their manager for more than two years unless he is successful hence there is a silly confusion people have in terms of the way the causality works. Managers get long tenure because they are seen to be doing a good job, they don't do a good job because they are given a long contract/time. Pardew has an 8 year contract, Moyes was at Everton for a decade...meanwhile, Arsene won the double in his second season, Pelligrini won a double in his first, Ancelotti won the double in his first season as Chelsea, Rafa got Chelsea back in the top four and won a trophy in his first season, Simeone improved Atletico every year, culminating in this years title win, Ancelotti won the CL in his first year.

Basically if they do a good job and meet or exceed expectations they are doing a good enough job and deserve another season.

For us, par is a top six finish with a challenge for a CL place, less than that you are out, more than that you get an extension.

It really is as simple as that. If you are unable to achieve this, you either change the playing staff or the manager, one is considerably cheaper than the other.

Great post.
I think the fundamental point is its down to money. The game has changed over the last 10 years and managers are now cheaper than top players.
People still see managers as the iconic leaders that propels the clubs to new and greater heights, occasionally they do as with Pulis and Rodgers but they are the exception rather than the rule these days. You give Poch £250m to buy top top players and he will have a greater chance of accumulating points. But this is not "backing" 'the Spurs Poch' because with these amounts of money it would be backing the 'City Poch'.

Although we are still "backing the manager" its not what some see as support. They want "City money" amounts spent and it's at the root of fan unhappiness over the past few years.

If Poch gets in to a relegation fight with our squad he will be history it as simple as that.

 

[SpursManChris]

It is but that doesn't mean the chairman shouldn't get credit for sticking with him.

but it was quite normal to stick with managers back in those days wasn't it.

 

[SpursDave88]

but it was quite normal to stick with managers back in those days wasn't it.

In days of yore players didn't know their true value, they do now

 

[Monkey boy]

I'm tired of the chase for the top 4. I'm going to be controversial and say let's concentrate whole heartedly on the Europa league and particularly the FA cup.

I never thought I'd be the one championing the Europa league but seeing arse win the FA cup has really made me jealous of them and would love to win something next year.

 

[danielneeds]

I disagree with Daveed on this one. Good managers don't need three years to make their mark on a squad. It's just cliched football talk.

Poch isn't exactly walking into a club that needs its team totally rebuilt, more like a high end professional tune up, maybe a few key parts replaced too.

 

[Mullers]

but it was quite normal to stick with managers back in those days wasn't it.

I think managers got more time back then and there were less demands. Now we have got champions league football.

 

[Nocando]

The notion that managers need to be given time to be successful ie to improve the team has repeatedly been proven to be false. Almost no club in Europe keeps their manager for more than two years unless he is successful hence there is a silly confusion people have in terms of the way the causality works. Managers get long tenure because they are seen to be doing a good job, they don't do a good job because they are given a long contract/time. Pardew has an 8 year contract, Moyes was at Everton for a decade...meanwhile, Arsene won the double in his second season, Pelligrini won a double in his first, Ancelotti won the double in his first season as Chelsea, Rafa got Chelsea back in the top four and won a trophy in his first season, Simeone improved Atletico every year, culminating in this years title win, Ancelotti won the CL in his first year at Real Madrid.

Basically if they meet or exceed expectations they are doing a good enough job and deserve another season.

For us, par is a top six finish with a challenge for a CL place, less than that you are out, more than that you get an extension.

It really is as simple as that. If you are unable to achieve this, you either change the playing staff or the manager, one is considerably cheaper than the other.

Youre missing the point. Its about the fans supporting the manager regardless. Hence the poll scenario. Our fans can be poison and we need to face up to that and turn it around.

 

[SpurSince57]

Nearly 70% of members who voted say 'yes'? Does the affirmative remain if we finish outside the top six?

Sorry. Don't believe you.

 

[Nocando]

Nearly 70% of members who voted say 'yes'? Does the affirmative remain if we finish outside the top six?

Sorry. Don't believe you.

I think I agree. However it's remeasuring that at those are the intentions at least.

I know people will argue that we don't want to regress however anything above the criteria I specified are heavily influenced by subjectivity (one man's meat is another man's poison).

But we need to put that to one side and not always look at it through the eyes of a chairman's / owner. The fans shouldn't feel the need to constantly make either the manager's or the chairman's decisions at every stage of the season. Of course we are entitled to our opinion and good debate is always healthy. However this notion applies even more so because it helps debate flourish, rather than centering around being right.

Rather than using our voices to make up for our inadequacies we should accept our role as a supporter, and instead look to create an atmosphere that works to our advantage, rather than against it. As long as we are happy with the chairman, then we should place a bit more faith in him to make a decision at the correct time (whether that is correcting a mistake or making a new one).

So if we apply that here. We should concentrate on making the atmosphere as best as possible (its probably rated as a 3 or 4 at the moment) and let MP do his job without too much interference. No fucking Super Pav when hes on the bench, no fucking Jermain Defoe's he's a yiddo when hes on the bench, no fucking he plays on the left, no boo, no moan, no silence, just decent fucking loud, in your face, support.

If we go with the view that MP will get 3 years unconditional support then he will have one hell of a weapon working for him, rather than against him, and will have every chance of being successful, regardless of what that means to you.

But that wont happen. Fans will play chairman / manager / tactician and will sit in the ground in silence (or moan) blaming everyone else but themselves and will leave the game, none the wiser and will walk straight into the pub and slag off everything else but themselves. It's what we do best.

 

[SpurSince57]

What's left undefined is, 'Three years to achieve what?"

Minimum realistic expectation is that we achieve sixth and better last season's points total and win percentage under Sherwood, otherwise questions will be asked. Finishing behind Everton, never mind Newcastle, really isn't an option if Pochettino wants to be here this time next year.

For some people, that isn't ambitious enough. You can point out that five clubs heavily outgun us in financial terms until you're blue in the face, but it won't sink in. We got our fourth places under Redknapp because others underachieved, not because we overachieved. We probably did as well as could reasonably have been expected. Even if Pochettino is a truly exceptional manager, Levy's Magic Bullet—and he could for all we know turn out to be just that—it's unlikely that he will be able to jump that gap, because four of the five have exceptional managers and greater resources (Rodgers I'm still unconvinced by, but he's got Suarez—for now). It's certainly improbable that he will be able to jump that gap this season.

 

[Syn_13]

What's left undefined is, 'Three years to achieve what?"

Minimum realistic expectation is that we achieve sixth and better last season's points total and win percentage under Sherwood, otherwise questions will be asked. Finishing behind Everton, never mind Newcastle, really isn't an option if Pochettino wants to be here this time next year.

For some people, that isn't ambitious enough. You can point out that five clubs heavily outgun us in financial terms until you're blue in the face, but it won't sink in. We got our fourth places under Redknapp because others underachieved, not because we overachieved. We probably did as well as could reasonably have been expected. Even if Pochettino is a truly exceptional manager, Levy's Magic Bullet—and he could for all we know turn out to be just that—it's unlikely that he will be able to jump that gap, because four of the five have exceptional managers and greater resources (Rodgers I'm still unconvinced by, but he's got Suarez—for now). It's certainly improbable that he will be able to jump that gap this season.

We should be the "best of the rest" as far as I'm concerned. Liverpool will be an interesting one as Rodgers will have huge pressure on him to replicate their form next year, plus they'll have more games to deal with. Otherwise I fully expect us to finish 6th next year as an absolute minimum, and I think that's what the board will expect too. Everton have less financial clout than we do and, all things considered, aren't a larger name than us in this day and age.

Yes, we're looking to overachieve and push into that top 5 (if Liverpool stay there and United improve, which I have no doubt they will). However, we have to be realistic and accept that we are restricted both financially, and in terms of status. We can only afford and attract certain types of players. Nonetheless, we have to remain ambitious or else we'll never give ourselves the chance to improve.

The league isn't the only thing that's important though. I really do hope that Poch can bring some cup success our way, something we've not had a lot of in the past couple of decades. If he finishes 6th I'd be content and happy for him to keep building on that. 6th with an excellent cup run would be great, and of course a trophy would be brilliant. However, for me, 6th is the minimum.

The difficult thing is where to go after that. I'm not sure whether fans, or the board, would be content for him just to achieve the minimum expectation every year. Let's say the status quo remains the same and the top 5 remain as strong. If he achieves 6th in a row without a trophy, no matter how close he gets (even if it's a final), Levy will surely get an itchy trigger finger. The media will claim he's stagnating and the fans will become impatient. In the long run he's going to have to overachieve, or at least take advantage of teams that underachieve, otherwise he won't be around long, like every manager we seem to employ.

 

[SpurSince57]

The title—or at least top four—should be our ambition, but we've also got to be realistic.

As for the cups, I've argued in a couple of recent threads, it helps an awful lot if you're a member of the CL Cartel. They've absolutely dominated the FA Cup since we last won it, and even the League Cup has become more of a closed shop in the last decade (more a Top Six than a Top Four one). The Europa League may actually be a more realistic target than either—we went out to a formidable Benfica side last year, but our second leg performance suggested that with a full strength line-up and a better mentality (and better tactics) we might have beaten them.

 

[SpursManChris]

I think managers got more time back then and there were less demands. Now we have got champions league football.

well if you acknowledge that then it seems strange that you used the Burkinshaw example.

 

[Spurs 1961]

I disagree with Daveed on this one. Good managers don't need three years to make their mark on a squad. It's just cliched football talk.

Poch isn't exactly walking into a club that needs its team totally rebuilt, more like a high end professional tune up, maybe a few key parts replaced too.

Very valid comments. I remember how before Abramovich Chelsea improved their squad and position year after year for several seasons, through a number of managers. When the big money came they had already become a top four club so Mourinho had when he came not just money but a great squad and a team who could compete with his teaking

 

[Mullers]

well if you acknowledge that then it seems strange that you used the Burkinshaw example.

Just because managers got more time and there was less demands it doesn't mean the example is without merit. I can imagine at the time we went down, many supporters would have wanted him out but the chairman still stuck with him.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

If it took levy 3 years to figure out an employee wasn't very good at their job he'd probably be flipping burgers in McDonald's now.

 

[Mullers]

I'm tired of the chase for the top 4. I'm going to be controversial and say let's concentrate whole heartedly on the Europa league and particularly the FA cup.

I never thought I'd be the one championing the Europa league but seeing arse win the FA cup has really made me jealous of them and would love to win something next year.

Do you mean play weaken sides in the league games if they are close to Europa or cup games?

 

[Monkey boy]

Do you mean play weaken sides in the league games if they are close to Europa or cup games?

If needs be yes. I think even if we went full tilt at the league I can't see us finishing top 4 next season so let's go all out for the cups.