Mike Dean

LeSoupeKitchen

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Fully agree, anyone with half of a brain cell would think like you are suggesting. However, those of us who holds more than half a brain cell, will see that there is plausibility behind Mike Means proposed bias, given his background as an assumed Tottenham fan.

You talk about refs doing a bad job, and that's fine, most of them do. But a bad job sees bad decisions distributed proportionally. A bias leads to a disproportion in good and bad decisions.
Agree. Referees are human so of course they are bias. I don't think I've ever watched a game completely neutral. I could watch a Ghanaian League 3rd division match and after 20mins will be strongly supporting a side because the face of the oppositon striker pisses me off for no good reason.

It's unreasonable of us to expect complete impartiality the same way it is unreasonable for the FA to blindly say their refs are cleaner than clean. They need to spot the patterns of bias (likely unconcious bias) and allocate refs accordingly.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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But of course....

Fully agree, anyone with half of a brain cell would think like you are suggesting. However, those of us who holds more than half a brain cell, will see that there is plausibility behind Mike Means proposed bias, given his background as an assumed Tottenham fan.

You talk about refs doing a bad job, and that's fine, most of them do. But a bad job sees bad decisions distributed proportionally. A bias leads to a disproportion in good and bad decisions.
A bias so plausible and obvious that we waited until after 16 games and 9 losses to start discussing it.
 

Gb160

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But of course....

A bias so plausible and obvious that we waited until after 16 games and 9 losses to start discussing it.
Its been brought up for ages if you'd been paying attention, i remember talk of it when he reffed the NLD last season.
Do try to keep up.

And before you start with your 'deluded conspiracy' bollocks, thats not what's being suggested....the possibility of sub-conscious bias is.
Surely you have to admit that the numbers don't quite add up, they're disproportionate.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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Wow, thanks easley91, that is really clear. I wonder why the media aren’t trying to find out what dean said? You would have thought they would love to stir it up?
I know of all the possible explanations, this is probably the furthest beyond the realms of credibility, but stick with me for a second.....maybe, just maybe what he said wasn’t that egregious at all, and Poch just lost his cool after a terrible result and performance in a game that he had talked up beforehand as being critically important?

Would you consider this more plausible or less plausible than the idea that a referee would be so bothered by an accusation of being biased in favour of a team that he’d then spend not the next game or few games, but 3 or 4 years conspiring against that same team in order to prove he wasn’t?
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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Its been brought up for ages if you'd been paying attention, i remember talk of it when he reffed the NLD last season.
Do try to keep up.

And before you start with your 'deluded conspiracy' bollocks, thats not what's being suggested....the possibility of sub-conscious bias is.
Surely you have to admit that the numbers don't quite add up, they're disproportionate.
Mike Dean is the longest-serving active referee I believe. Over the course of his career, before and after the game we’re talking about, he will have been accused of bias toward and against pretty much every time at some point, and so it would then stand to reason that he’d have that same bias, whether conscious or unconscious, against them all, no? Why is it that one game and accusation the one that sticks out and negatively impacts him above all others?

The more critical thought one is able to apply here, the sillier this argument looks.
 

Shadydan

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I know of all the possible explanations, this is probably the furthest beyond the realms of credibility, but stick with me for a second.....maybe, just maybe what he said wasn’t that egregious at all, and Poch just lost his cool after a terrible result and performance in a game that he had talked up beforehand as being critically important?

Would you consider this more plausible or less plausible than the idea that a referee would be so bothered by an accusation of being biased in favour of a team that he’d then spend not the next game or few games, but 3 or 4 years conspiring against that same team in order to prove he wasn’t?
Whatch the video, Perez and Jiminez are also not happy, all 3 of them are having a go at the ref with Perez repeatedly saying don't say that.

Pretty obvious something was said...
 

Everlasting Seconds

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But of course....

A bias so plausible and obvious that we waited until after 16 games and 9 losses to start discussing it.
Mike Dean is the longest-serving active referee I believe. Over the course of his career, before and after the game we’re talking about, he will have been accused of bias toward and against pretty much every time at some point, and so it would then stand to reason that he’d have that same bias, whether conscious or unconscious, against them all, no? Why is it that one game and accusation the one that sticks out and negatively impacts him above all others?

The more critical thought one is able to apply here, the sillier this argument looks.
You are not displaying an ability for critical thinking, but for cavilling, which not at all are the same. You are acting as if this thread is about one match only, when indeed it isn't. It is about one person, over the scope of some time. I don't doubt the length of his experience, I doubt the scope of his ability.
 

Lighty64

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I know of all the possible explanations, this is probably the furthest beyond the realms of credibility, but stick with me for a second.....maybe, just maybe what he said wasn’t that egregious at all, and Poch just lost his cool after a terrible result and performance in a game that he had talked up beforehand as being critically important?

Would you consider this more plausible or less plausible than the idea that a referee would be so bothered by an accusation of being biased in favour of a team that he’d then spend not the next game or few games, but 3 or 4 years conspiring against that same team in order to prove he wasn’t?
So why was Jesus shouting at him “you can’t say that”?
 

Tucker

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I’d really love to know what Dean said, and I’m really surprised the press aren’t all over it.

Refs get far too easy a ride from the press, I understand that we don’t want to undermine officials authority, as the players and coaches do enough of that. But I don’t feel there’s anywhere near enough sensible scrutiny beyond pundits disagreeing with decisions from time to time.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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Whatch the video, Perez and Jiminez are also not happy, all 3 of them are having a go at the ref with Perez repeatedly saying don't say that.

Pretty obvious something was said...
I’ve not denied he said anything. I’m saying that, in all likelihood, whatever he did say probably didn’t warrant the reaction. If it did, then I’m guessing we’d be challenging the misconduct charge, rather than accepting it.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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You are not displaying an ability for critical thinking, but for cavilling, which not at all are the same. You are acting as if this thread is about one match only, when indeed it isn't. It is about one person, over the scope of some time. I don't doubt the length of his experience, I doubt the scope of his ability.
And yet you’ve still given no sensible reason why he’d be more biased, whether consciously or otherwise, against us than anyone else
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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I’ve not denied he said anything. I’m saying that, in all likelihood, whatever he did say probably didn’t warrant the reaction. If it did, then I’m guessing we’d be challenging the misconduct charge, rather than accepting it.
Does a totally out of character and disproportionate reaction from Poch not then indicate to you that Poch had serious issues with the ref being bias before going into the match?
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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So why was Jesus shouting at him “you can’t say that”?
I don’t know. Dean clearly said something, I’m not denying that, I just doubt that it was as bad as is being made out in here.

Why has Pochettino apologised?
 

Shadydan

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I’ve not denied he said anything. I’m saying that, in all likelihood, whatever he did say probably didn’t warrant the reaction. If it did, then I’m guessing we’d be challenging the misconduct charge, rather than accepting it.
In his interview Poch says that the misconduct charge is warranted and he'd happily accept whatever punishment comes his way as it didn't look good on reflection, and it doesn't which is why he has apologised, I think we can all agree that his reaction was wrong, however you'd be a fool to even try and deny that the ref hasn't said anything unjust, look at the reaction of all three of them, have you ever seem them react that way, I haven't?


Literally couldn't be more obvious...
 

theShiznit

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I don’t know. Dean clearly said something, I’m not denying that, I just doubt that it was as bad as is being made out in here.

Why has Pochettino apologised?
Bigger man?

Or maybe doesn't want more "sub conscious" bad decisions going against his team ;) :whistle:
 

easley91

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I’ve not denied he said anything. I’m saying that, in all likelihood, whatever he did say probably didn’t warrant the reaction. If it did, then I’m guessing we’d be challenging the misconduct charge, rather than accepting it.
It got a reaction and a response out of all 3, not just Poch. One says "say that again for the cameras". Another says "You can't say that!". On a normal day, after a bad performance and bad officiating the coaches would just go back disappointed. This was something else.
 
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