Jose Mourinho

[mpickard2087]

You do realise that Norwich dropped deeper at the end of the game which enabled us to push on, thats the simple fact. Ossie, you were a big advocate of Poch so when we only got 24 points from 25 games and playing the most horrendous football, was that totally on Poch, because people back then were blaming Levy instead?

It's just the mood swings in here that can give you whiplash. Poch was a likeable character so it was all Levys fault we were playing badly, Mourinho isn't so likeable so now its suddenly all his fault. Can people make up their mind? I even remember post after post after post saying that Levy is at fault for getting rid of our best manager since Bill Nic! We seem to have a number of posters who tailor their points to suit their own agenda. If you look at our squad simplistically its like this:

Goalkeepers:
- Lloris - Injured most of the season.
- Gazza - An ok number 2.
- Vorm - No more needs to be said.

Full Backs:
- Rose - Out of form, ageing, has left the club.
- Davies - Injured most of the season.
- Sessegnon - A young kid still learning his trade. Injured.
- KWP - Ultimately not good enough, has left the club.
- Aurier - Erratic at best.
- Tanganga - A young kid still learning his trade.

Centre Backs:
- Vertonghen - Has aged very fast and appears a shadow of his former self.
- Alderweireld - Struggling a bit this season, not the player we had a few years back.
- Sanchez - A good player but he needs a strong partner.
- Foyth - Injured most of the season.

Centre Mids:
- Sissoko - Been out for most of the time Mourinho has been here.
- Ndombele - Has struggled in the new league with fitness issues.
- Lo Celso - Been injured a lot, is starting to show his class.
- Winks - A tidy little player but not a world beater.
- Dier - Has been injured for the best part of a year.
- Skipp - A young kid still learning his trade.
- Gedson - Only just joined us.
- Wanyama - Injured constantly, left the club.

Attacking Mids:
- Lamela - Injury prone, plays one game & is out for 2.
- Alli - A shadow of his former self for 18 months now.
- Lucas - Tries hard but ultimately not good enough.
- Bergwijn - Only just joined us.
- Son - Injured for the rest of the season.
- Eriksen - Out of form, eventually left the club.

Strikers:
- Kane - Out for the rest of the season.
- Parrott - A young kid learning his trade.

So basically, if you take the emotion out of it you can see that we have had Lloris, Davies, Sessegnon, Dier, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Lamela, Son & Kane injured for large parts of the season and these are all of our key players. Add that to generally a poor defence with zero defensive midfielder and some young players, then it paints a clear picture that this squad needs to be reinforced heavily and no manager would truly be able to get essentially 13 players to play 2 games a week constantly with no focal point to our attacks.

That's 11 players we have had out for large parts of this season aswell as losing Rose, KWP, Wanyama & Eriksen.

We need to stop the hyperbole that is constantly trotted out in here & just accept that this is the way its going to be till the end of the season. If people feel as strongly as their posts suggest (with some people making outlandish statements) then they should be camping outside of Hotspur Way with banners. I guess that won't happen as it's really easy to be a keyboard warrior, but less so to actually make a stand.

Final bit, I loved Poch and in my lifetime he is my favourite manager and he was let down by the players ultimately, and once again these same players are blameless in making yet another manager look average. Our anger, disappointment, sadness shouldn't be aimed at the guy who took over 13 weeks ago (thats all it is), it should be at the players who can't even do the very basic thing of passing to eachother successfully.

Sorry the long rant, Ossie I kind of used your post to write this

Good post, but I'm just going to re-post my earlier effort:

Aurier - First second and 700th instinct is to bomb forward, positioning and concentration suspect at the best of times. Likes to charge out and engage the opposition.

Sanchez - Getting there, but still not quite the finished article. Probably the best pure defender we have at this point, another whose inclination is to get tight and step out and engage the opposition.

Alderweireld - Is physically declining and this is being shown up more and more with ultra tentative defending. Can still do the job on a good day, but this really isn't a given anymore.

Vertonghen - Even more on the decline and getting shown up.

Dier - Cant do the job in midfield anymore. Currently remembering how to play centre back.

Tanganga - Rookie. Another who likes to step out and engage the opposition.

Foyth - Still a rookie. Ball playing defender bought in for high possession team playing high up the pitch. Yet another who likes to charge out and get stuck into his man.

Davies - Ok but not top class defender. Can do a job though.

Sessegnon - At left back and attack minded option. A rookie who is learning the defensive aspects of the game.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball player. Weak at sitting and screening. Can press and is quite tenacious and mobile though.

Skipp - Rookie. Basically a bit more of a tenacious version of Winks.

Sissoko - Cant be trusted to sit and screen, doesn't have the nous or game intelligence or positional ability, best deployed running about all over the place / Good player for transitions when we get the ball.

Lo Celso - More advanced ball player. Tenacious and will scrap, not a sitter / With ball likes it to feet and lot of touches, can pick a pass.

Ndombele - Clearly not someone who can sit and screen the defence at this point / Likes ball to feet and lots of touches and give and go's

Gedson - Versatile, will run lots, but a rookie attack minded midfielder. Unsure what type of player he really is currently.

Lamela - Charges around giving 200%, presses and hassles well, cant be trusted to defend a flank though / Likes ball to feet, lots of touches, lots of passes etc.

Moura - Tries his heart out when the ball is in his immediate vicinity, but not a great defensive player and cant be trusted to defend a flank consistently / With ball likes it to feet, and considering his skillset isn't actually great in transitions and exploiting quick counter attacks.

Bergwijn - Not lazy, but doesn't look that diligent either in his defensive duties / With ball seems to like it to feet also, not rapid and not brilliant in transitions

Alli - Will do a job whether he is stationed but not the most tenacious presser / Likes the ball to feet, lots of touches, at his own pace, best work done picking his moments to get into the penalty area and sniffing opportunities. Not great at rapid transitions.


Now with those you have, and what they offer and can/cant do, why would you choose the current approach?

When he has had a few transfer windows it might be a different prospect, but he currently has a load of attack minded players at fullback, midfield and in attack, who like the ball to feet and aren't that direct. No sitting midfielders at all. Cant sit and soak with a solid base made of outstanding pure defenders who have low error counts, and without Son (and Sissoko) no real outstanding players in transition/counter. Despite all of this Mourinho is, lets be honest, choosing to railroad the current squad in the direction he wants it. When he first came in he talked of recognising he was coming in mid-season and not really changing much, that didn't last long did it......

I'm not saying playing in any other way would be a magic bullet, we saw against Wolves it wouldn't be, but what he has is totally incapable of his ideals and will fail at sit and soak and counter football the vast majority of times, especially against half decent teams. Maybe it is right for him to plough on regardless, but then he has to take responsibility. The season might have been a write off anyway, I was preaching that in November and ever since, but we may as well be asking the FA if our season can finish now and gamble 40 points is enough, because it's an utter waste of time to try and employ these tactics without four or five (minimum) signings and two or three back from injury. Until May we may as well use the squad to it's on paper strengths and try to attack teams, get up the pitch, and play proactively. The revisit his ideal game plan in the summer. To keep playing this way is pointless and a waste of everyone's time, we may as well strive to do something and entertain rather than sit it out in footballing purgatory until May.

 

[rez9000]

To answer one of your points, I'd say he has had time to implement his 'system and style' which is why we surrender possession and territory for long spells of most of our games. Mourinho set us up to play Norwich at home as if it was Barcelona away.

Sorry Japhet, I have to pull you up on this as it's being treated by some as fact, when it is self-evidently not.

Four months, playing two games a week is nowhere near enough time to implement anything. This is a common, and expected, phenomenon throughout football - midseason, a new manager cannot implement very much at all. In the congested fixture schedule, training focus is on recovery and preparation for the next game. There is very little time to fundamentally change tactics and implement new ways of working because players simply can't learn new approaches in the space of a few spare training sessions when all their work is on getting over the last game and getting ready for the next one. That's what pre-season is for - to learn new styles, systems, tactics and shapes.

And the outcomes of that impediment are known too. When a new manager comes in midseason, you get a bounce and then it tails off again. The reason for the bounce is that players are keen to impress and so they put in a lot more effort - plus the unpredictability of how they're going to play can also throw opponents off who may not know the tactical tweaks (and note I said tweaks, not wholesale changes) a new manager may use - this can then benefit the new manager's team.

Once the tail-off from the bounce occurs, any problems that existed before the new manager arrived come back to the fore. As we're currently seeing and which has been seen time and time and time again. Look at OGS. He arrived, results picked up and then they tailed off and the same problems Mourinho had occurred again. Look at Arteta. He arrived, results blipped (I wouldn't even call it a bounce) and then things started to tail off again and the same problems Emery had are rearing their heads again.

Four months is not enough time. Expecting fundamental changes is completely unfeasible.

 

[PLTuck]

Sorry Japhet, I have to pull you up on this as it's being treated by some as fact, when it is self-evidently not.

Four months, playing two games a week is nowhere near enough time to implement anything. This is a common, and expected, phenomenon throughout football - midseason, a new manager cannot implement very much at all. In the congested fixture schedule, training focus is on recovery and preparation for the next game. There is very little time to fundamentally change tactics and implement new ways of working because players simply can't learn new approaches in the space of a few spare training sessions when all their work is on getting over the last game and getting ready for the next one. That's what pre-season is for - to learn new styles, systems, tactics and shapes.

And the outcomes of that impediment are known too. When a new manager comes in midseason, you get a bounce and then it tails off again. The reason for the bounce is that players are keen to impress and so they put in a lot more effort - plus the unpredictability of how they're going to play can also throw opponents off who may not know the tactical tweaks (and note I said tweaks, not wholesale changes) a new manager may use - this can then benefit the new manager's team.

Once the tail-off from the bounce occurs, any problems that existed before the new manager arrived come back to the fore. As we're currently seeing and which has been seen time and time and time again. Look at OGS. He arrived, results picked up and then they tailed off and the same problems Mourinho had occurred again. Look at Arteta. He arrived, results blipped (I wouldn't even call it a bounce) and then things started to tail off again and the same problems Emery had are rearing their heads again.

Four months is not enough time. Expecting fundamental changes is completely unfeasible.

Case in point, look at what happened to AVB when he went to Chelsea and tried to change too much too soon, and that wasn't mid season either.

 

[spursfan77]

Oh, and to bloody top it off.....we've 2 boys aged 8 and 6. Both have the spurs kits, names on the back etc. Daddy here has been filling their poor little heads with Spurs since day 1, our best players from the past, the best games I've been to blah blah blah.

So this morning I tell them that Spurs lost last night on penalties. The eldest said "how did man city get on"?
"Why" I asked
"I think I support them now"

A bit taken a back, I was then getting the 6 year old dressed for school. His birthday is in May so i was asking him what he wants....
"A Wolves strip". He said it fucking deadpan. No smile or cheeky grin to show me he's kidding. He's absolutely serious.

Don’t worry. Last week my eldest (he’s just turned 6) kept on banging on about Liverpool being the best team in the world and that he wished he supported them. I just ignored it, obviously inside I was raging. On Sunday because I was going to the game he had his kit on all day.

Anyway on Tuesday night he couldn’t sleep and came downstairs to see me watching Chelsea Liverpool. He asked me the score and I said Chelsea were winning, to which he did a fist pump and said yes. I asked him why he did that and he said Liverpool may be the best team but they also have the biggest boasters. Suddenly it all became clear. Kids at school who’s dads are the same age as me support them, so their kids do. It’s just an unlucky situation. I said don’t worry, they might be good this year but maybe not next year.

First thing he asked me when he woke me up this morning was, did spurs win. I broke it to him and he was disappointed. Basically, all I’m saying is that with any luck they’ll come back and if you’ve been indoctrinating them since day one, then I think you’ll be ok!

 

[spursfan77]

cant remember the last time we lost 4 straight. even when we sucked.

This time last year although not 4 straight defeats. It went LLDLL. Played 5 games between 23/2 and 31/3 and lost 4 of them drawing once against arsenal.

 

[adamsky]

Without having to scroll through hundreds of posts, has anyone actually questioned José about why he played Vorm? I would have thought a journalist would have asked the question. It really was a baffling decision

 

[sunnydelight786]

He's a winner you know.....

 

[Deleted member 27995]

He's a winner you know.....

You weren't in here giving the same bollocks four games ago.

 

[JonnySpurs]

You do realise that Norwich dropped deeper at the end of the game which enabled us to push on, thats the simple fact. Ossie, you were a big advocate of Poch so when we only got 24 points from 25 games and playing the most horrendous football, was that totally on Poch, because people back then were blaming Levy instead?

It's just the mood swings in here that can give you whiplash. Poch was a likeable character so it was all Levys fault we were playing badly, Mourinho isn't so likeable so now its suddenly all his fault. Can people make up their mind? I even remember post after post after post saying that Levy is at fault for getting rid of our best manager since Bill Nic! We seem to have a number of posters who tailor their points to suit their own agenda. If you look at our squad simplistically its like this:

Goalkeepers:
- Lloris - Injured most of the season.
- Gazza - An ok number 2.
- Vorm - No more needs to be said.

Full Backs:
- Rose - Out of form, ageing, has left the club.
- Davies - Injured most of the season.
- Sessegnon - A young kid still learning his trade. Injured.
- KWP - Ultimately not good enough, has left the club.
- Aurier - Erratic at best.
- Tanganga - A young kid still learning his trade.

Centre Backs:
- Vertonghen - Has aged very fast and appears a shadow of his former self.
- Alderweireld - Struggling a bit this season, not the player we had a few years back.
- Sanchez - A good player but he needs a strong partner.
- Foyth - Injured most of the season.

Centre Mids:
- Sissoko - Been out for most of the time Mourinho has been here.
- Ndombele - Has struggled in the new league with fitness issues.
- Lo Celso - Been injured a lot, is starting to show his class.
- Winks - A tidy little player but not a world beater.
- Dier - Has been injured for the best part of a year.
- Skipp - A young kid still learning his trade.
- Gedson - Only just joined us.
- Wanyama - Injured constantly, left the club.

Attacking Mids:
- Lamela - Injury prone, plays one game & is out for 2.
- Alli - A shadow of his former self for 18 months now.
- Lucas - Tries hard but ultimately not good enough.
- Bergwijn - Only just joined us.
- Son - Injured for the rest of the season.
- Eriksen - Out of form, eventually left the club.

Strikers:
- Kane - Out for the rest of the season.
- Parrott - A young kid learning his trade.

So basically, if you take the emotion out of it you can see that we have had Lloris, Davies, Sessegnon, Dier, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Lamela, Son & Kane injured for large parts of the season and these are all of our key players. Add that to generally a poor defence with zero defensive midfielder and some young players, then it paints a clear picture that this squad needs to be reinforced heavily and no manager would truly be able to get essentially 13 players to play 2 games a week constantly with no focal point to our attacks.

That's 11 players we have had out for large parts of this season aswell as losing Rose, KWP, Wanyama & Eriksen.

We need to stop the hyperbole that is constantly trotted out in here & just accept that this is the way its going to be till the end of the season. If people feel as strongly as their posts suggest (with some people making outlandish statements) then they should be camping outside of Hotspur Way with banners. I guess that won't happen as it's really easy to be a keyboard warrior, but less so to actually make a stand.

Final bit, I loved Poch and in my lifetime he is my favourite manager and he was let down by the players ultimately, and once again these same players are blameless in making yet another manager look average. Our anger, disappointment, sadness shouldn't be aimed at the guy who took over 13 weeks ago (thats all it is), it should be at the players who can't even do the very basic thing of passing to eachother successfully.

Sorry the long rant, Ossie I kind of used your post to write this

I fully disagree. OK, I have to be precise. I don't disagree that the style has been poor for a few matches in a row. I disagree that what we are seeing is Mouriho's primary choice for style of football the way he wants Spurs to play long term. Many fans are arguing that we are now seeing the brand of footie and that it is bad. We are seeing a type of football deployed due to a manager's insecurities in/response to an extreme period of fitness/injury issues. The best Mourinho footie we've seen at Spurs has already been very, very good. But the worst luck in injuries and fitness brings out the worst in the players and the worst in tactics. We need to support the team, finish this season, take a log holiday, sign a couple of players and win a trophy next season.

Harry joined at a time when we had an imbalanced squad suffering from both confidence and form. He was a divisive character too. He muddled through to the end of that season with a few decent results, a few decent performances, but mainly just holding it together till he had a summer to properly do surgery. That summer he brought in a badly needed, serviceable target man, a centre back who could take the pressure off King, and a playmaker he knew to give us another dimension in attack, as well as the usual assorted youth. The also cleared the deadwood, Zokora, Bent, Boateng etc. That following season was great, finishing fourth for the first time, battering Wigan (and a few other teams) those games v Arsenal and Chelsea, Bale emerging and Modric blooming.

If we get this summer right, I’m confident history will repeat.

I am so pissed off after yesterday but I am going to try and put a positive spin on this.

At this level and especially with premier league clubs the margins are extremely narrow between success and failure. Our squad isn't bad but we do need some very important additions. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we need another good striker, we need better full backs and we need a defensive midfielder. We are going to do something about this in the summer. There is no hiding the completely shambolic embarrassment that is not having a fit striker.

The players have also been completely run to the ground, a combination of not being able to rest key players right now and Poch's very high intensity approach to the game, which was always going to be more effective with the much younger squad he had a few years back, versus the burnt out and older squad of these last seasons. Mourinho needs fresher players and some new players, but he isn't going to burn them out at the same rate as Poch did once things settle down and he can rotate more.

Mourninho's approach is clear, it always has been, but it is also clear that it can't work right now. Every approach has strengths and weaknesses, and the current circumstances are massively exacerbating the inherent weaknesses of Mourinho's tactics. Kane might not be fast, but his vision and finishing make him very effective at counter attacks, while this system also plays to Son's strengths. Without a striker at all and without an effective DM, or at least having to carry players like Ndombele when he decides he isn't going to be a part of the defensive process, then we are really in trouble. Which right now we really are.

However, there were still some very promising signs from the last few games in particular. I think Skipp was very good yesterday, and Dier is slowly proving himself a capable defender. If playing him there was a route to Skipp getting into the team then great. Lo Celso continues to excel, and both Gedson and Bergwijn look like good additions. We have many good players, they just need resting which they can't right now. But we are not a million miles away, and when our circumstances improve slightly, and things actually favour Mourinho's approach, then results could improve exponentially.

All things considered, I think that the crappy luck and poor squad management we currently face is giving us a glimpse of how bad - and plain ugly - things can get on the pitch under Mourinho, when every factor is working against his approach, but we can't possible gauge how good things could get once our luck changes and things start going in his favour.

Really pleased I came into this thread. I was expecting a lot of negativity and overreactions but this has restored my faith that our fanbase isn't completely losing it.

There is no doubt that last night was the low point of the season but we have to have some perspective and be able to see the bigger picture here.

Frankly we need this season to end. If that means we end up in 9th or 10th as a result then so be it. I don't believe it will have a massive impact on our transfer targets to not be in the CL next season and actually, with the squad like it is, I think a year out of Europe could do us a favour.

Those saying this current style of football is what Mourinho wants can't seriously believe that and are likely only saying that because they are probably anti-Jose anyway. Lower your expectations and accept that this will be a poor season. Hopefully we'll make some good signings in the summer, clear the dead wood and see progress again next season without the distraction of Europa League football.

 

[mpickard2087]

Four months is not enough time. Expecting fundamental changes is completely unfeasible.

Case in point, look at what happened to AVB when he went to Chelsea and tried to change too much too soon, and that wasn't mid season either.

See again, I don't get this.

In attack we've gone from primarily a heavily possession based and work our way into goal scoring opportunities team, to one looking to play with fast transitions, combinations, and catch teams on counter attacks. In defence we have gone from a team that for years now has by and large tried to squeeze up the pitch as much as possible and try to win the ball quickly, to one that is now sitting much deeper and getting in behind the ball and trying to draw teams forward.

How much more change can you get? As I keep saying personally I'd argue that quite a lot of the problems are in fact due to trying to change too much to soon with a group of players ill-suited to the direction of travel.

 

[Gb160]

Without having to scroll through hundreds of posts, has anyone actually questioned José about why he played Vorm? I would have thought a journalist would have asked the question. It really was a baffling decision

Not really, he's obviously seen enough of Gazza to come to the conclusion he's flawed.
IMO we have 1 decent goalkeeper, and 2 who just aren't good enough.

 

[PLTuck]

See again, I don't get this.

In attack we've gone from primarily a heavily possession based and work our way into goal scoring opportunities team, to one looking to play with fast transitions, combinations, and catch teams on counter attacks. In defence we have gone from a team that for years now has by and large tried to squeeze up the pitch as much as possible and try to win the ball quickly, to one that is now sitting much deeper and getting in behind the ball and trying to draw teams forward.

How much more change can you get? As I keep saying personally I'd argue that quite a lot of the problems are in fact due to trying to change too much to soon with a group of players ill-suited to the direction of travel.

I do have a caveat in that I don't get to see every game. Can't afford Sky, so rely on MotD and the odd cup game on terrestrial. I can see your point, but I think it's just that, right now, Mourihno is firefighting until the end of the season.

One of the things I did notice yesterday was the almost complete lack of pressing in their half for a good hour. Yes that concerns me as much as anyone, and if we are seeing the same come November, then questions need to be answered or a change will need to inevitably be made.

I also think it's partly that the players are knackered (dont see how with some of them only playing 90 mins a handful of times all season), and so the plan is to try and conserve as much energy as possible, and perhaps the fear of further imjuries plays a part in that dynamic also. I'm not saying it's right, it's just why I think we may be playing like we are at the moment.

Lets remember that one Vorm clusterfuck aside, the plan works and we win.

 

[shelfboy68]

Not really, he's obviously seen enough of Gazza to come to the conclusion he's flawed.
IMO we have 1 decent goalkeeper, and 2 who just aren't good enough.

Mate vorm last night was wow sums us up right now sloppy and lethargic.

 

[CowInAComa]

Honestly this season is such a write off it's almost irrelevant if Jose is adding to it or making it worse. Are the players shit because of the shit tactics or are the shit tactics because of the shit players. We put in a good half then just stop. Then go mental for 10 far too late golden minutes then have a pile-on in the stands.

It's just all an avalanche of shit. Who fucking knows anymore. He'll get a pass until next season just because of the injuries and bullshit are a justifiable excuse to hide behind for now. So lets just hope he can really find a new string to his bow with that time and come out firing next time around.

If anything good has come of it , it has certainly helped to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[shelfboy68]

I do have a caveat in that I don't get to see every game. Can't afford Sky, so rely on MotD and the odd cup game on terrestrial. I can see your point, but I think it's just that, right now, Mourihno is firefighting until the end of the season.

One of the things I did notice yesterday was the almost complete lack of pressing in their half for a good hour. Yes that concerns me as much as anyone, and if we are seeing the same come November, then questions need to be answered or a change will need to inevitably be made.

I also think it's partly that the players are knackered (dont see how with some of them only playing 90 mins a handful of times all season), and so the plan is to try and conserve as much energy as possible, and perhaps the fear of further imjuries plays a part in that dynamic also. I'm not saying it's right, it's just why I think we may be playing like we are at the moment.

Lets remember that one Vorm clusterfuck aside, the plan works and we win.

The players are knackered from the burnout the previous year.

 

[mpickard2087]

I also think it's partly that the players are knackered (dont see how with some of them only playing 90 mins a handful of times all season), and so the plan is to try and conserve as much energy as possible, and perhaps the fear of further imjuries plays a part in that dynamic also. I'm not saying it's right, it's just why I think we may be playing like we are at the moment.

Lets remember that one Vorm clusterfuck aside, the plan works and we win.

a) The thing is though this way of playing doesn't conserve energy, I also don't think it's any less intense than Poch's. Everyone is expected to get in behind the ball, have to keep shuffling about and tracking and staying organised, so physically are using energy, mentally this is tiring too, and then certain players like Moura, Alli, Bergwijn etc. are then expected as soon as we win the ball to hurtle forward length of the pitch, then when we lose it get back in behind the ball again. Trust me, that is really fucking tiring to be doing that over and over and over.

b) That's kind of the point though. When you choose to sit and soak up pressure for such large spells of the game it only takes one moment or error to undo that. It's just not realistic to not have errors, someone switching off, a goalkeeper flapping, a set piece, etc. And especially not with this personnel, as I've kept saying you need and Mourinho has previously had very good pure defenders in your two banks of four who make minimal mistakes. With this lot - rookies, declining forces, no sitting midfielders, attack minded technical players - it's a different kettle of fish entirely. And so we're back to trying to change too much too quickly again.....

 

[Hakkz]

Honestly this season is such a write off it's almost irrelevant if Jose is adding to it or making it worse. Are the players shit because of the shit tactics or are the shit tactics because of the shit players. We put in a good half then just stop. Then go mental for 10 far too late golden minutes then have a pile-on in the stands.

It's just all an avalanche of shit. Who fucking knows anymore. He'll get a pass until next season just because of the injuries and bullshit are a justifiable excuse to hide behind for now. So lets just hope he can really find a new string to his bow with that time and come out firing next time around.

If anything good has come of it , it has certainly helped to separate the wheat from the chaff.

And this is what I expected to happen, whatever other outcomes we get in the end.

 

[TorontoYid]

I may be wrong but it is starting to look to me like the decline in our form was not down to Poch and his tactics but rather due to Levy not spending and our lack of depth. A couple of injuries and suddenly having only 2 actual forwards causing us to lose games we should win comfortably. Yes, I am sure fatigue has a huge part of things but that is also down to lack of depth and not strengthening the team so we can rotate our players as they get tired.

 

[shelfboy68]

Sorry Japhet, I have to pull you up on this as it's being treated by some as fact, when it is self-evidently not.

Four months, playing two games a week is nowhere near enough time to implement anything. This is a common, and expected, phenomenon throughout football - midseason, a new manager cannot implement very much at all. In the congested fixture schedule, training focus is on recovery and preparation for the next game. There is very little time to fundamentally change tactics and implement new ways of working because players simply can't learn new approaches in the space of a few spare training sessions when all their work is on getting over the last game and getting ready for the next one. That's what pre-season is for - to learn new styles, systems, tactics and shapes.

And the outcomes of that impediment are known too. When a new manager comes in midseason, you get a bounce and then it tails off again. The reason for the bounce is that players are keen to impress and so they put in a lot more effort - plus the unpredictability of how they're going to play can also throw opponents off who may not know the tactical tweaks (and note I said tweaks, not wholesale changes) a new manager may use - this can then benefit the new manager's team.

Once the tail-off from the bounce occurs, any problems that existed before the new manager arrived come back to the fore. As we're currently seeing and which has been seen time and time and time again. Look at OGS. He arrived, results picked up and then they tailed off and the same problems Mourinho had occurred again. Look at Arteta. He arrived, results blipped (I wouldn't even call it a bounce) and then things started to tail off again and the same problems Emery had are rearing their heads again.

Four months is not enough time. Expecting fundamental changes is completely unfeasible.

Hold on there is a difference between fundamental changes and not being able to keep the fucking ball for a duration of more than 1/2 passes and school boy defending, that simply doesn't wash mate no one is in tune with anyone on the pitch not even a fraction, surely it's not asking too much to see some changes developing even small but we are getting worse.

 

[WiganSpur]

Harry joined at a time when we had an imbalanced squad suffering from both confidence and form. He was a divisive character too. He muddled through to the end of that season with a few decent results, a few decent performances, but mainly just holding it together till he had a summer to properly do surgery. That summer he brought in a badly needed, serviceable target man, a centre back who could take the pressure off King, and a playmaker he knew to give us another dimension in attack, as well as the usual assorted youth. The also cleared the deadwood, Zokora, Bent, Boateng etc. That following season was great, finishing fourth for the first time, battering Wigan (and a few other teams) those games v Arsenal and Chelsea, Bale emerging and Modric blooming.

If we get this summer right, I’m confident history will repeat.

Find myself agreeing with this tbh. Hopefully the extremely low fan expectations might help too. With time, luck and hard work on the transfers front we will see significant improvement.