Manager watch: Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 702 55.1%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 448 35.2%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 123 9.7%

  • Total voters
    1,273

Albertbarich

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Jul 4, 2020
Messages
308
Phew. For a minute there I assumed you might have been pulling figures out the air. At least there's some science involved! Does it only apply to Northerners? I ask because Allardyce isn't northern, he's from the midlands. It'd be interested to know where the 99% start getting diluted. Does it get worse the more northern you get? Is that why George Graham's football was so crap?

Or, have you considered that it's nothing to do with any of that stuff and it's the fact that Mourinho is one of the most successful managers of all time?

So, unsurprisingly enough, many 'supporters' are happy to have faith in a process because the bloke has been there, done that, and no doubt passes bowel movements with more experience in football than the majority of his critics. If Tony Pulis was stuck on the sidelines we'd be less optimistic because there would be little evidence that hoping would yield anything. He's from Welsh and from Newport though, so probably not Northern or English enough to cause discord.

Irony with this kind of opinion is in guys like Steve Bruce. Geordie lad (that's very north of England) managing his home team and, although there's Sunderland connotations there, was slated for not being Benitez right from the moment he was linked. Turns out he has then playing better than Benitez after all.
If sam allerdyce was our manager he would be getting nowhere near this level of support. You can go on about his past all you like, his unemployed because his football whilst somewhat successful turns his own fans against him in large numbers.

You may not be one of them.but large numbers of people defending mourinho would not be doing so if he wasn't jose mourinho and the Newcastle analogy proves my point so thanks for that. Big name manager does ok is worshipped , English manager of northern descent does ok, gets dogs abuse.

And yes it has occurred to me that the blind faith in mourinho is due to his ever more distant past and sure thats part of it. He's the sexy appointment I get it. You may not like my comparison to northern British managers like allerdyce who suffer from stereotyping that prevents them getting jobs but its a valid one. Hes playing that sort of football and it doesn't even look convincing.

Not sure why your response is so shitty when id conceded a difference of opinion, I guess you have watched too much of mourinhos football, I know it puts me in a bad mood everytime I watch it.
 

sausage

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May 17, 2018
Messages
4,689
If sam allerdyce was our manager he would be getting nowhere near this level of support. You can go on about his past all you like, his unemployed because his football whilst somewhat successful turns his own fans against him in large numbers.

You may not be one of them.but large numbers of people defending mourinho would not be doing so if he wasn't jose mourinho and the Newcastle analogy proves my point so thanks for that. Big name manager does ok is worshipped , English manager of northern descent does ok, gets dogs abuse.

And yes it has occurred to me that the blind faith in mourinho is due to his ever more distant past and sure thats part of it. He's the sexy appointment I get it.
You're missing the point so much it's going to need 14 days in quarantine.

People have faith in Mourinho because it's Jose bloody Mourinho. He has won almost everything there is to win.
There's no winning with a lot of people - one minute it's "We haven't won anything. Trophies are everything" then it's "This football is turgid". Mourinho is a guy who, by almost all evidence, knows how to win things. He has done it aesthetically when he's had the teams to do so, and he's done it ugly when he has. In either case, he knows how to win.
That is why plenty of people back him.

We've had a decade of "look at that lovely football" accompanied by winning nothing with it. Well, even before Mourinho we had turgid football for a season and a half with Pochettino, so we had neither for a lot of it if you include AVB and Sherwood as well.

You may not like my comparison to northern British managers like allerdyce
It's insular stereotyping and you're basically lumping all the managers you don't seem to like into a category of 'northern' whilst being too lazy to check if they are, even saying 'Take any Northern English man'. I think we get it - you don't like Northerners. (I assume you know Mourinho isn't from Barnsley, but I can't be certain by this point. Allardyce is still not Northern either, btw).

Not sure why your response is so shitty when id conceded a difference of opinion.
It isn't though is it? I think in almost every post I've seen of yours you are spinning opinion as fact. You are entitled to an opinion, but if you pull fake statistics and 'facts' out of the air, or try and certify tropes about 'Northern' people repeatedly then you can't complain about people getting annoyed by it.
 

BringBack_leGin

Audere est facere
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
23,854
If sam allerdyce was our manager he would be getting nowhere near this level of support. You can go on about his past all you like, his unemployed because his football whilst somewhat successful turns his own fans against him in large numbers.

You may not be one of them.but large numbers of people defending mourinho would not be doing so if he wasn't jose mourinho and the Newcastle analogy proves my point so thanks for that. Big name manager does ok is worshipped , English manager of northern descent does ok, gets dogs abuse.

And yes it has occurred to me that the blind faith in mourinho is due to his ever more distant past and sure thats part of it. He's the sexy appointment I get it. You may not like my comparison to northern British managers like allerdyce who suffer from stereotyping that prevents them getting jobs but its a valid one. Hes playing that sort of football and it doesn't even look convincing.

Not sure why your response is so shitty when id conceded a difference of opinion, I guess you have watched too much of mourinhos football, I know it puts me in a bad mood everytime I watch it.
  1. It’s Sam Allardyce
  2. You can’t dismiss Mourinho’s trophy haul as being a valid reason to have more faith in him than Allardyce, Bruce or Dyche. It’s a pretty obvious barometer by which to judge a manager.
  3. Mourinho’s last Trophies were only 3 seasons ago. He also finished 2nd in the league more recently than Spurs have in 2018, 2 seasons ago. Since then he’s only had the 1st half of one season and the final 66% of last season.
  4. If it puts you in a bad mood, why keep watching? Life’s too short to be voluntarily miserable.
 

Albertbarich

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Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
308
You're missing the point so much it's going to need 14 days in quarantine.
Are you always this charming?
People have faith in Mourinho because it's Jose bloody Mourinho. He has won almost everything there is to win.
There's no winning with a lot of people - one minute it's "We haven't won anything. Trophies are everything" then it's "This football is turgid". Mourinho is a guy who, by almost all evidence, knows how to win things. He has done it aesthetically when he's had the teams to do so, and he's done it ugly when he has. In either case, he knows how to win.
That is why plenty of people back him.
I'm not one of those people who ever demanded trophies. I backed the last manager to the hilt because he gave us great success. The football is turgid you may want a trophy at any cost but I want to be able to enjoy the football. The two best teams in the league play fantastic football by the way, its not like whatever it is his trying to achieve is being used across the top teams. They nearly all press high, all attack with intent and interchange off the ball. We do none of them.

We've had a decade of "look at that lovely football" accompanied by winning nothing with it. Well, even before Mourinho we had turgid football for a season and a half with Pochettino, so we had neither for a lot of it if you include AVB and Sherwood as well.
We might not have won trophies but poch got us to unseen heights whilst navigating moving stadium and having no money. The last 18 months were a struggle but he never set out a team like mourinhi does and due to the stadium move didnt get the squad refresh he and the players needed due to working for so long together.

Look at the other teams qere competing with. Every single one plays far better football and this is what it comes down to for me, I cant even see us getting top four let alone winning the league, were nowhere near a well oiled defensive machine and we look devoid of attacking patterns barring bits of genius from individuals.

[/quote]
It's insular stereotyping and you're basically lumping all the managers you don't seem to like into a category of 'northern' whilst being too lazy to check if they are, even saying 'Take any Northern English man'. I think we get it - you don't like Northerners. (I assume you know Mourinho isn't from Barnsley, but I can't be certain by this point. Allardyce is still not Northern either, btw).
[/quote]

I made a stereotype about football fans not Northern managers , one which you proved with your Newcastle example.


It isn't though is it? I think in almost every post I've seen of yours you are spinning opinion as fact. You are entitled to an opinion, but if you pull fake statistics and 'facts' out of the air, or try and certify tropes about 'Northern' people repeatedly then you can't complain about people getting annoyed by it.
Lol come on mate
 

Albertbarich

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Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
308
  1. It’s Sam Allardyce


  1. Thanks bringbeck_leGin

    [*]You can’t dismiss Mourinho’s trophy haul as being a valid reason to have more faith in him than Allardyce, Bruce or Dyche. It’s a pretty obvious barometer by which to judge a manager.
    [*]Mourinho’s last Trophies were only 3 seasons ago. He also finished 2nd in the league more recently than Spurs have in 2018, 2 seasons ago. Since then he’s only had the 1st half of one season and the final 66% of last season.
    Thats a fairpoint. I bring those managers up because he plays that sort of football that they get slaughtered for. That man utd season cost them a fortune and just like now he divided the fanbase . United fans aren't exactly clamouring for him to come back are they?

    *]If it puts you in a bad mood, why keep watching? Life’s too short to be voluntarily miserable.
Because I love spurs and will do well after his gone. With your username i would have thought you could appreciate a spurs fan wanting decent football.
[/QUOTE]
 

Phomesy

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Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
9,161
Just to add to my last post on this...

Here you can see the UCL Winners, Bayern, most recent match where they have steamrolled a very capable opponents. Look at the goals, most from quick transitions, direct vertical passing where they have condensed the pitch. By all media accounts, Bayern are playing swashbuckling, penetrative attacking attractive football -their style has been likened to a well oiled efficient machine.



Now look at our highlights from the match against Southampton. There is a distinct similarity between what both teams are trying to achieve in terms of style of effectiveness. Its the same quick vertical passing, deep block followed by an opportunistic press. Whilst Bayern are considerably more effective at this style, our team has been described as turgid, boring, relinquishing possession etc. I suspect if we get a few more highscoring victories the narrative may change.

I've said before and I'll say again - I'm praying for "turgid football" if it means we keep clean sheets and have the look of defensive solidity Mourinho built his success on. I would much rather have won this game 2-0.

Our problem - and what Mourinho needs to solve - isn't our attacking prowess; it's how easily Southampton were playing through our midfield and back 4.

If we can be tight at the back we have the attackers to go a very long way. But at the moment we are very very far from being a defensively sound unit. Hopefully Mourinho can sort it. (y)
 

Shadydan

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Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
31,708
I've said before and I'll say again - I'm praying for "turgid football" if it means we keep clean sheets and have the look of defensive solidity Mourinho built his success on. I would much rather have won this game 2-0.

Our problem - and what Mourinho needs to solve - isn't our attacking prowess; it's how easily Southampton were playing through our midfield and back 4.

If we can be tight at the back we have the attackers to go a very long way. But at the moment we are very very far from being a defensively sound unit. Hopefully Mourinho can sort it. (y)
I have you right, what bothers me is that we were looking like we were starting to get it last season post lockdown and in particular wins over Everton, Leicester, Arsenal and Newcastle, even against Man Utd we look much more organised - we were conceding chances due to individual errors (mainly by Serge which can't be helped until he is replaced) I was happy for us to end on that, work on it in the summer and build on it come this season, the problem is though it seems like we've gone backwards, our basic defending principles have just totally gone and in these last two matches there's no common sense logic at times. What I saw at Southampton scared the life out of me.

Could well be lack of fitness, intensity/sharpness, lack of confidence and integrating 2 new players in a new system, lack of discipline, maybe all of the above but something has dropped off and I don't like it.
 

Danny1

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Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
4,014
Allerdyce was just a name. Take any Northern English man producing this football and 99% of people wouldn't have this faith.

I guess the debate is a dead-end. You don't mind the football, I despise it. And I dont believe a lot of it is the masterplan many do.

I guess we will see. I hope I'm wrong but what prompted me to post was I cant see it right now.
Maybe it’s because there isn’t a single northern English man who has the trophy cabinet that Mourinho has. If there was a manager like that, who had the respect that Mourinho has then maybe he would be given the time?

Very weird to try and compare a no trophy Allardyce vs the manager who has won the most trophies in the top leagues out of all the managers currently in a job, and one that has won a trophy at every club he has been at. Like comparing a fiat punto to a Ferrari and wondering why the punto is slower, simple answer, it’s shit when compared to the Ferrari.
 

BringBack_leGin

Audere est facere
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Messages
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Because I love spurs and will do well after his gone. With your username i would have thought you could appreciate a spurs fan wanting decent football.
I fully appreciate wanting decent football, but it’s also a highly subjective issue. It’s not as if we’re scoring goals off of a hoof to Harry knocked down for whoever to run onto, like we did with Mido, Berbatov and Crouch up front. We’re attacking with pace, primarily out wide, and trying to take advantage of drawing a team out of formation before exploiting the space. We’re about mid table for high balls and balls on the ground respectively, but did you know that we’re top of the table for low balls? That doesn’t suggest a hoofing hit and hope side.

I personally think that once the side, particularly the midfield, is fully familiar both with Mourinho and eachother, assuming the correct personnel choices (less Sissoko, more Ndombele), everything will look more structured, crisper and more cohesive. V Southampton, even if it took 44 minutes to click, we were clearly trying to get the ball into the midfield quickly after soaking the attack and then let the midfield identify the best pass to release the attack, which is generally what we’ve done in our good performances since Mourinho took over. The ceding possession isn’t my ideal, but it does seem very much that the intent is to be tight and solid, but give the attackers the space and freedom to play exciting football that leads to goals. If Son Kane, Bale, Lo Celso, Ndombele etc are seeing lots of the ball, they’ll do aesthetically pleasing things with it.

I’m not saying it’s my ideal, my favourite ever side is Barcelona’s under Pep, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Mourinho’s intention is to have use replicate Joe Kinnear’s Wimbledon. Ultimately the quality of the football is dictated by the players on the pitch more than anything, so until I see Mourinho bring back Fellaini and seeing if Cattermole fancies joining him to help release Sissoko, I’m optimistic that the football will be ‘good enough’ and that the results will justify it.
 

Mark_147

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Messages
756
I have you right, what bothers me is that we were looking like we were starting to get it last season post lockdown and in particular wins over Everton, Leicester, Arsenal and Newcastle, even against Man Utd we look much more organised - we were conceding chances due to individual errors (mainly by Serge which can't be helped until he is replaced) I was happy for us to end on that, work on it in the summer and build on it come this season, the problem is though it seems like we've gone backwards, our basic defending principles have just totally gone and in these last two matches there's no common sense logic at times. What I saw at Southampton scared the life out of me.

Could well be lack of fitness, intensity/sharpness, lack of confidence and integrating 2 new players in a new system, lack of discipline, maybe all of the above but something has dropped off and I don't like it.
Maybe most of the individual errors weren't down to serge hence why now he's out of the team and our defence is still making individual errors.
 

Shadydan

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Maybe most of the individual errors weren't down to serge hence why now he's out of the team and our defence is still making individual errors.
Goal against Arsenal Serge took a heavy touch and Laazette scored
Goal against Newcastle Serge clearance to Matt Richie, he scored
2nd (non) pen against Man Utd Serge took a heavy touch and Rashford robbed him, resulted in a pen which Bruno dived to get it.

Sheffield Utd was a shambles and the only game in that period where we defended like amatuers collectively but that was an anomaly post lockdown.
 

LeParisien

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This half time post didn't age well... (y) (I joke)

You and others have commented about JM only being able to set up a team of warriors and relying on moments of brilliance to get goals - I have to disagree completely.

Anyone trying to understand what JM is trying to create need only look at Bayern and their current set up (who no one would call turgid), they use fast players, they transfer the ball forward fast and mostly direct, they press opportunistically. JM wants us to move the ball forward quickly into attacking positions where the defence does not have an opportunity to settle. The big problem we faced under Poch was that we built up slow and from the back into a slow squeeze of the opponent. That often means a well drilled defence can gladly sit deep and swat away the passes and crosses relatively easily and then you really do need a moment of magic to score.

Under JM he's creating a situation where the percentages are more in our favour, we move the ball faster and create a 2 v 2 or 3v4 rather than a 5v8 or 6v9 in favour of the defence. The fewer bodies they have back the better the chance we can create and that maximising our opportunity to score. He's not just creating a team that battles and telling them to run around a facking bit. It's specifically trained movements that get key players into key spaces.
He did this at Real with Cristiano, Benzema would take a position in the left or drift out left and take the marker with him where Cristiano would move in the opposite direction and pick up a through pass from ozil or Alonso. They did that move so many times and Cristiano created so many chances not because of his magic (though undoubted) but because the system put him in that position to do so.
Thanks for the post. If Mourinho has us playing like Bayern then I’ll be delighted. I’ll be on here saying I was wrong and that he has delivered big time.

I don’t see Mourinhos time at Real as being particularly successful. Good but not great. He had an incredible squad and the league at the time was much poorer and far less competitive than the EPL today. His champions league record was mediocre. He did well sure. But he met expectations, no more (whilst also falling out with the squad and the media ... he made a big play of the fact he was the “happy one” when he went back to Chelsea because he was so miserable in Madrid).

I’m not dogmatic about this though. I am BSODL but I said clearly 18 months ago I’d be critical if more spending wasn’t forthcoming once the stadium opened. It came. I then said I believed yet more spending was required or I’d be critical. It is coming (and indeed started with Bergwijn in January).

For Mou I believe his success is irrelevant because he hit par with the richest team in the world (Man Utd) and the biggest team in the world (Real). If he hits par with spurs then he won’t be winning anything substantial (carabao?). I think he’ll have us playing better than we have for the past 18 months (with the most talented squad we’ve ever had?). But the performances won’t be as good as the players available and the results are unlikely to be tremendous. He probably won’t win anything. And if he doesn’t win something and qualify for the CL this year, next season will be ugly.

As with my views on ENIC, I am fully transparent about this and I would happily be proven wrong. And I’ll be the first to admit it :)
 

Mark_147

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Messages
756
Goal against Arsenal Serge took a heavy touch and Laazette scored
Goal against Newcastle Serge clearance to Matt Richie, he scored
2nd (non) pen against Man Utd Serge took a heavy touch and Rashford robbed him, resulted in a pen which Bruno dived to get it.

Sheffield Utd was a shambles and the only game in that period where we defended like amatuers collectively but that was an anomaly post lockdown.
What about all of Diers mistakes.
 

Shadydan

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31,708
What about all of Diers mistakes.
Well either way - it's besides the point I'm making, I'm not trying to solely blame Serge for goals we conceded but he was the one that stood out the most who made individual errors leading to goals.
 

Albertbarich

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Messages
308
I fully appreciate wanting decent football, but it’s also a highly subjective issue. It’s not as if we’re scoring goals off of a hoof to Harry knocked down for whoever to run onto, like we did with Mido, Berbatov and Crouch up front. We’re attacking with pace, primarily out wide, and trying to take advantage of drawing a team out of formation before exploiting the space. We’re about mid table for high balls and balls on the ground respectively, but did you know that we’re top of the table for low balls? That doesn’t suggest a hoofing hit and hope side.

I personally think that once the side, particularly the midfield, is fully familiar both with Mourinho and eachother, assuming the correct personnel choices (less Sissoko, more Ndombele), everything will look more structured, crisper and more cohesive. V Southampton, even if it took 44 minutes to click, we were clearly trying to get the ball into the midfield quickly after soaking the attack and then let the midfield identify the best pass to release the attack, which is generally what we’ve done in our good performances since Mourinho took over. The ceding possession isn’t my ideal, but it does seem very much that the intent is to be tight and solid, but give the attackers the space and freedom to play exciting football that leads to goals. If Son Kane, Bale, Lo Celso, Ndombele etc are seeing lots of the ball, they’ll do aesthetically pleasing things with it.

I’m not saying it’s my ideal, my favourite ever side is Barcelona’s under Pep, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Mourinho’s intention is to have use replicate Joe Kinnear’s Wimbledon. Ultimately the quality of the football is dictated by the players on the pitch more than anything, so until I see Mourinho bring back Fellaini and seeing if Cattermole fancies joining him to help release Sissoko, I’m optimistic that the football will be ‘good enough’ and that the results will justify it.

I hope and pray im wrong. Id love a trophy, I have a lack of faith at the moment though.

If I am ill happily take the stick .
 

dondo

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Jan 4, 2006
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7,304
After watching the Amazon documentary you have to question how much is down to the players because he did repeatedly ask them to press, close down and move up the pitch quickly. It just didnt happen so whose fault is it?
I also commented previously about his negative team talks, focusing on the opposition and how they're going to play. After watching the last episode I noticed he never did that and his pre match, half time team talks were actually very impressive. Whether that was down to the editing or not I dont know.
Particularly liked how he turned Lloris/Son spat into a positive. And it worked.
Pressing was always Pochettino’s thing too and the players stopped doing it. Definitely the players take the majority of the blame for last season
 

chinaman

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17,088
Pressing was always Pochettino’s thing too and the players stopped doing it. Definitely the players take the majority of the blame for last season

The team was getting old and we didn't have fresh legs for over two years. Had Levy backed Poch fully, we could have achieved something.
 
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