Manager watch: Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 644 54.5%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 428 36.2%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 109 9.2%

  • Total voters
    1,181

Metalhead

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Trophies =/= Results on the pitch

We’ve had good results and no one was upset with the results on the pitch for any of Pochs full seasons. It was great!
Poch has gone though. We are where we are - that isn't to say that people can't discuss it or wish that Poch came back but he isn't.
 

Japhet

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I get that some people value good football over everything. I get that although I'm with you and see trophies as the priority. Thing is that it's not really possible to expect people to change their way of thinking either way but what I would say is that DL knew what he was getting with Jose and providing that he doesn't lose the team and he gets results then people will have to accept that he ain't going anywhere for a while.
Bigger nightmare for me would be having to pay Mourinho a compensation package.
 

LeParisien

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That isn't a counter argument to my point because my point is that beggars cannot be choosers and since we've won a paltry 1 trophy in 20 odd years I'm not going to be complaining about the style if it brings home a trophy.

Because the style of play you've been so desperate to see over the years has resulted in absolutely nothing apart from good memories...I mean obviously we all want great football and trophies but if one isn't available or possible I'm taking the next best thing

So my point is that I'll take football that isn't easy on the eye over the sexy football and not winning anything.
Yes but that’s not the choice you’re presented with. Winning a trophy is not our choice. Our style of play is.

On same level your argument (and @Metalhead) assumes that there is a choice between winning trophies and playing good football. There isn’t. We all want to win trophies. You would rather we compete for trophies by choosing to play bad football. The only reason you would choose that is because you assume that playing bad football will increase our chances of winning. There is not much evidence of that over the past 5 years so it’s a bad assumption. Instead we should try to win trophies by playing good football.
 

Metalhead

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Yes but that’s not the choice you’re presented with. Winning a trophy is not our choice. Our style of play is.

On same level your argument (and @Metalhead) assumes that there is a choice between winning trophies and playing good football. There isn’t. We all want to win trophies. You would rather we compete for trophies by choosing to play bad football. The only reason you would choose that is because you assume that playing bad football will increase our chances of winning. There is not much evidence of that over the past 5 years so it’s a bad assumption. Instead we should try to win trophies by playing good football.
Not that there is no choice. I'm just making the point that we know how Jose will set up and he has been given carte blanche by DL (one assumes) to do what he needs to do to get results so by all means discuss but wishing him gone is wishful thinking at the moment as is pining for Poch to come back.
 

LeParisien

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Not that there is no choice. I'm just making the point that we know how Jose will set up and he has been given carte blanche by DL (one assumes) to do what he needs to do to get results so by all means discuss but wishing him gone is wishful thinking at the moment as is pining for Poch to come back.
Now you’re making a totally different argument. You’re not making an argument that we should play the way we do. You’re arguing that we have no choice but to accept it. And that’s true. But that’s true of nearly everything discussed on this forum.

You can still wish we set out to play more attractive football and argue that we should. Which is what you seemed to be arguing against.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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29,850
Yes but that’s not the choice you’re presented with. Winning a trophy is not our choice. Our style of play is.

On same level your argument (and @Metalhead) assumes that there is a choice between winning trophies and playing good football. There isn’t. We all want to win trophies. You would rather we compete for trophies by choosing to play bad football. The only reason you would choose that is because you assume that playing bad football will increase our chances of winning. There is not much evidence of that over the past 5 years so it’s a bad assumption. Instead we should try to win trophies by playing good football.
Hold up - that is literally the argument, are we not following on from the discussion from Dillspur's post below?

Hard to say. Yes it would be great to win a trophy, but for me it has a lot to do with the style of play, I want to be entertained, I want to love the way we play.
I would rather we compete for trophies full stop that's all I'm saying.

You want to be entertained that's fine, are you going to be complaining if the style of football isn't to your liking and we win trophies?
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
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16,000
Now you’re making a totally different argument. You’re not making an argument that we should play the way we do. You’re arguing that we have no choice but to accept it. And that’s true. But that’s true of nearly everything discussed on this forum.

You can still wish we set out to play more attractive football and argue that we should. Which is what you seemed to be arguing against.
Who wouldn't want to though? Given that we didn't win anything under Poch despite great football for the first few seasons, I'll welcome a new approach. People will say "well he wasn't given the resources" so my response would be "yes, if we had the resources then I'd love both" but we don't. In the financial situation that we are in, I think that I'll go with the Jose approach if it wins matches and trophies. If not, then I'll be happy to wave goodbye to him. I'm no fanboy - I know that he does have a large following that has followed him to Spurs but after the last approach not working because the manager was not backed, I'll give anything a try.
 

LeParisien

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Hold up - that is literally the argument, are we not following on from the discussion from Dillspur's post below?



I would rather we compete for trophies full stop that's all I'm saying.

You want to be entertained that's fine, are you going to be complaining if the style of football isn't to your liking and we win trophies?
Are you assuming @Dillspur does not want to win trophies? It’s not a dichotomy. We all want to win trophies. We’d just rather not suffer bad football as we try to do so.
 

LeParisien

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Who wouldn't want to though? Given that we didn't win anything under Poch despite great football for the first few seasons, I'll welcome a new approach. People will say "well he wasn't given the resources" so my response would be "yes, if we had the resources then I'd love both" but we don't. In the financial situation that we are in, I think that I'll go with the Jose approach if it wins matches and trophies. If not, then I'll be happy to wave goodbye to him. I'm no fanboy - I know that he does have a large following that has followed him to Spurs but after the last approach not working because the manager was not backed, I'll give anything a try.
Poch led a massive improvement in results and outcomes compared to what had come before. And he did so playing great football for much of that time.

Jose needs time to evaluate his results but so far he has guaranteed us only one thing - bad football.

Everyone should agree that they would rather have a coach who tried to win playing good football and that Jose’s approach is suboptimal.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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29,850
Are you assuming @Dillspur does not want to win trophies? It’s not a dichotomy. We all want to win trophies. We’d just rather not suffer bad football as we try to do so.
wtf are you on about, I'm just responding to the discussion that Dillispur kicked off :LOL:

At the end of the day this debate is totally subjective - you'd rather not suffer 'bad' football that's great but you don't speak for me so we'll leave it there.

Edit -Also good and bad football is such a vague distinction between the two and again totally subjective, not everyone prefers Pep and Klopp football, some people prefer the style of play by Conte and Ranieri for example. There is so many different styles you can like which is why this argument is nonsense.
 
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LeParisien

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wtf are you on about, I'm just responding to the discussion that Dillispur kicked off :LOL:

At the end of the day this debate is totally subjective - you'd rather not suffer 'bad' football that's great but you don't speak for me so we'll leave it there.
That’s a bad answer and you can do better.

it’s not subjective because you are not arguing that Mourinho is playing good football. Then that would be subjective. You’re arguing that we should try to win playing bad football instead of try to win playing good football.

But I respect your wish not to discuss this further!
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
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16,000
Poch led a massive improvement in results and outcomes compared to what had come before. And he did so playing great football for much of that time.

Jose needs time to evaluate his results but so far he has guaranteed us only one thing - bad football.

Everyone should agree that they would rather have a coach who tried to win playing good football and that Jose’s approach is suboptimal.
That's a bit silly expecting everyone to fit in with your way of thinking. Ultimately what will determine Jose's future is results. If his approach fails to yield results over the course of the remainder of the season and however DL affords him next season then he'll be gone. I'm not sure what you mean by outcomes unless you are referring to the style of play but it didn't yield trophies. The answer to that was clearly not being backed financially and I'm not sure that anyone else would have done any better given the financial limitations at the club and so if Jose can make us efficient and gets results and ultimately trophies all well and good - for me. I'm not expecting you to go "ok fair enough - you win the argument". How childish would that make me!
 

LeParisien

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That's a bit silly expecting everyone to fit in with your way of thinking. Ultimately what will determine Jose's future is results. If his approach fails to yield results over the course of the remainder of the season and however DL affords him next season then he'll be gone. I'm not sure what you mean by outcomes unless you are referring to the style of play but it didn't yield trophies. The answer to that was clearly not being backed financially and I'm not sure that anyone else would have done any better given the financial limitations at the club and so if Jose can make us efficient and gets results and ultimately trophies all well and good - for me. I'm not expecting you to go "ok fair enough - you win the argument". How childish would that make me!
If Jose wins trophies and finishes top 4 in a full season with us then regardless of style of play he’ll have done better than Poch.

But we are not there yet. From this vantage point, it doesn’t make sense to play bad football. We should not expect that to increase our chances of winning trophies or performing well in the league. And there is no intrinsic benefit to doing it. So it’s not a rational course to take.

But we shall see!
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,893
Are you assuming @Dillspur does not want to win trophies? It’s not a dichotomy. We all want to win trophies. We’d just rather not suffer bad football as we try to do so.
It's a bit like when you're out on the pull with the lads.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices, and go home with the bird with the annoyingly loud laugh, or the one whose face is a bit butters.

Otherwise you might end up with nothing but a kebab and a wank.
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
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If Jose wins trophies and finishes top 4 in a full season with us then regardless of style of play he’ll have done better than Poch.

But we are not there yet. From this vantage point, it doesn’t make sense to play bad football. We should not expect that to increase our chances of winning trophies or performing well in the league. And there is no intrinsic benefit to doing it. So it’s not a rational course to take.

But we shall see!
Exactly. I do expect him to be judged on results so if his let's say 'minimalist' approach doesn't yield results then I can't see DL taking too long to move on although as @Japhet sagely pointed out, the compensation package would probably not be a good look.
 

LeParisien

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It's a bit like when you're out on the pull with the lads.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices, and go home with the bird with the annoyingly loud laugh, or the one whose face is a bit butters.

Otherwise you might end up with nothing but a kebab and a wank.
Nice imagery. A kebab and a wank is not the equivalent of attractive football though.

And you do seem to be saying playing worse football will increase our chances of winning. But that’s not the lesson of the last 5 years...
 
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