How much more will Jenas progress?

[guiltyparty]

Gerrard has been fucking shit all year

Comparatively. That's what happens when you're generally awesome week in, week out for your club. Oh for Jenas to have an 'off season' like Gerrard.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hi guilty party - you're right JJ has never been 'shit' but lots and I mean lots of deluded fans on various sites and worse at the Lane decided he was and gave him loads of ignorant abuse that could have easily destroyed his confidence and driven him out of the club -

those people (and Spurs 'boo boys' have a long inglorious tradition of scapegoating players going back to Venables and beyond) do nothing for the club - they are a hindrance - 'paying your money' doesn't give people a right to damage the club

If it was a 'one-off' incident I (and I'd hope other JJ fans) would let it go - but as I say it's been an appalling part of the 'Lane experience' for way too long

now it seems that there's a groundswell to start picking on Bent - I just don't want it to happen and if it starts will campaign aas vigourously against that as I have on behalf of JJ & Lee

 

[Chris12345]

For my part, I think he's a decent player who's flying at the mo. He's clearly never been 'shit', so anyone asking for him out was obviously deluded. But I think people are over-hyping him a bit at the mo.

That's actually how he himself described his first half season at Spurs :lol:

 

[Berbati]

JJ has to score and create more goals in order to be a great midfielder. His physical attributes are excellent and he's got decent technical skills.

 

[guiltyparty]

Hi guilty party - you're right JJ has never been 'shit' but lots and I mean lots of deluded fans on various sites and worse at the Lane decided he was and gave him loads of ignorant abuse that could have easily destroyed his confidence and driven him out of the club -

those people (and Spurs 'boo boys' have a long inglorious tradition of scapegoating players going back to Venables and beyond) do nothing for the club - they are a hindrance - 'paying your money' doesn't give people a right to damage the club

If it was a 'one-off' incident I (and I'd hope other JJ fans) would let it go - but as I say it's been an appalling part of the 'Lane experience' for way too long

now it seems that there's a groundswell to start picking on Bent - I just don't want it to happen and if it starts will campaign aas vigourously against that as I have on behalf of JJ & Lee

Fair point, DC. But to pick on Bent is absolutely ridiculous, the guy's barely played, yet you're always going to get that kind of supporter. Hell, my Dad hates Keane, and used to hate Anderton too. It's completely illogical. A lot of people need someone to blame every game. But I think it's important for intelligent debate that we recognise there's more than two camps, and just because some of us (and I've done it quite a few times) criticise Jenas, it doesn't mean we think he's shit per se. Good players have bad games and vice versa.

And Chris, yeah, he wasn't playing well, but he was never shit. Think there's a fundamental difference between a shit player and player who happens to be playing shit, which is what I think he was alluding to.

Jenas is clearly a talented chap, which is what makes him ballsing things up (as he has from time to time) so frustrating. It's easier to accept someone's failings when you know their shit.

 

[batigol]

Fair point, DC. But to pick on Bent is absolutely ridiculous, the guy's barely played, yet you're always going to get that kind of supporter. Hell, my Dad hates Keane, and used to hate Anderton too. It's completely illogical. A lot of people need someone to blame every game. But I think it's important for intelligent debate that we recognise there's more than two camps, and just because some of us (and I've done it quite a few times) criticise Jenas, it doesn't mean we think he's shit per se. Good players have bad games and vice versa.

And Chris, yeah, he wasn't playing well, but he was never shit. Think there's a fundamental difference between a shit player and player who happens to be playing shit, which is what I think he was alluding to.

Jenas is clearly a talented chap, which is what makes him ballsing things up (as he has from time to time) so frustrating. It's easier to accept someone's failings when you know their shit.

Exactly. It may be hard to understand but the reason why I criticise him so much is because I know he can be so much more. People who think he has everything should wonder why he doesn't show that often enough. He clearly does not and only recently has he gained a certain degree of consistency. If he continues his progress then he has a chance but otherwise, he isn't considered a complete midfielder nor top-class in my eyes at this point.

Also, I never said he is shit but he can certainly be very frustrating.

 

[Destroyer]

Jenas has the potential, but can he fulfil it ? I'm sure Juande will get the best out of him, so far he's got more out of Jenas than BMJ did in 2 years.

 

[DC_Boy]

intelligent debate about JJ or any player is great - but one of the things that a lot of 'JJ bashers' (and I'm not saying anyone on this thread did this) was to decide that because, in their view, JJ wasn't playing to his full potential he became fair game for ridiculous levels of abuse that were hardly likely to help the lad.

As for Bent - it is of course ridiculous to pick on him - but I notice it's already started - and just hope it doesn't grow from here - the similarities with Armstrong are frightening and I really don't want to have to live through the embarrassing shame of watching a section of the crowd doing their level best to destroy one of our expensive strikers again

 

[batigol]

intelligent debate about JJ or any player is great - but one of the things that a lot of 'JJ bashers' (and I'm not saying anyone on this thread did this) was to decide that because, in their view, JJ wasn't playing to his full potential he became fair game for ridiculous levels of abuse that were hardly likely to help the lad.

Shrugs. Not playing to his full potential for me means that I believe he can do a lot more in a game to influence or drive the team forward but he doesn't and instead shows an infuriating ability to disappear out of the game when we need a commanding presence in the middle.(Not always but it has happened often enough)

Perhaps it is unfair to heap such expectations on him but it is precisely the fact that I recognize his talent and ability that I believe he is capable of doing it. People who do criticize him may be following this train of thought as well.

 

[DC_Boy]

yeah but batigoal it depends how you express that criticism - the stuff you've written on here is fair enough - I disagree with it but that's just a difference of opinion - you know full well a lot of the stuff JJ has been subjected to is nothing like what you've written now

I've no idea what you wrote in the past or whether you've given the Lane the benefit of your views on JJ - what I do know is that a lot of people have given JJ ridiculous levels of abuse and it was not only incorrect but I can't possibly see how it was helpful to JJ or the team

people can follow all sorts of trains of thought but when it results in nasty abusive comments on a regular basis (anyone might say something bad in a moment of frustration) it's not acceptable as far as I'm concerned - others may disagree but I hate going to the Lane and hearing people slag off our plaayers on a consistent basis - especially in the case of players like JJ Lee Bent when they clearly don't deserve it

 

[WildCard]

We generally dislike the palyers we expect more of, hence why so many people get/got frustrated at Jenas, of course then there are the other players who we hate, where we think: "How did he become a Pro?"

 

[tobi]

He is now a genuine threat to the monopoly that is Gerrard n Lampard.

I'd like to see him get more assits.

 

[guiltyparty]

I've no idea what you wrote in the past or whether you've given the Lane the benefit of your views on JJ

Interesting this, as I'd never ever boo or shout abuse at one of our players at the Lane, but I would come on here and berate them. That's an important function of Spurs Community for me, getting that tension and annoyance out somewhere where it won't negatively affect the team. And then get told I'm over-reacting and should get behind the team

I do think some people on here don't fully grasp what a forum and a messageboard is for for a lot of people. Just because some criticise the hell out of players on here, doesn't necessarily make them bashers and also doesn't mean that's what they're like in real life. Those that scream abuse at players in person probably don't even know how to turn a computer on…

 

[paul_1979yid]

He has everything? I would say Kaka has everything. Maybe Gerrard. Jenas? Don't get me wrong, I am not a massive boo-boy and I do acknowledge his potential and current improvement but everything is just too far-fetch.

Like some has said, he just don't possess the creativity. He has great engine, movement but he does not have a great range of passing nor superb dribbling ability. Even Scholes have more in his pocket than him. I hope he can improve further and may have the chance to reach their level but I am also realistic in knowing that he is nowhere near their level at the moment. The fact that Ramos had to limit his role to utilise his strengths better clearly illustrates this fact.

This is the point i was trying to make but got accused of being a 'Jenas Boo boy'.

JJ is good YES and YES he is improving all the time but AT THIS MOMENT to talk about him in the same breath as Stevie G, Kaka and Gazza I think is wrong. Just my opinion. It does not make me a boo boy and i will admit i was not JJ's biggest fan but i take my hat off to the boy he has come on LOADS this season. I hope he goes from strength to strength and i hope as much as anyone else that oneday he can find a regular place in the national team :clap: