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Eric Dier

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
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Outside of elite teenage talents like Foden, Rooney, etc I can't think of any teenagers who got all their experience by starting for a top 6 Prem side.

I've read nothing that suggests Phillips is a teen prodigy.

I hope he has a good future and to fulfil his potential he needs to be developed in the right way. History suggests this isn't simply throwing him in the deep end.

We fucked up by not signing another centre back. But this doesn't mean we should develop Phillips in such a bad way.
Even if he makes mistakes, having a defender with some genuine pace would mean we could push up the pitch and those mistakes could be further away from goal. As a result, our pressing could see us squeeze the other team. We saw that having Dier and Davies there meant the whole team got sucked backwards and the press became irrelevant.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
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Even if he makes mistakes, having a defender with some genuine pace would mean we could push up the pitch and those mistakes could be further away from goal. As a result, our pressing could see us squeeze the other team. We saw that having Dier and Davies there meant the whole team got sucked backwards and the press became irrelevant.
What's he like on set-pieces? If he wasn't ready for the Championship, how have we made him Prem ready within a few months?

This idea that Dier not being good enough therefore we should throw a teenager to the wolves is crazy to me.

Look how quickly fans lost confidence in Skipp. He went from being a future first teamer to will never be good enough within a few months.

Some bad performances by Phillips will not help him.
 
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mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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Outside of elite teenage talents like Foden, Rooney, etc I can't think of any teenagers who got all their experience by starting for a top 6 Prem side.

I've read nothing that suggests Phillips is a teen prodigy.

I hope he has a good future and to fulfil his potential he needs to be developed in the right way. History suggests this isn't simply throwing him in the deep end.

We fucked up by not signing another centre back. But this doesn't mean we should develop Phillips in such a bad way.
We won't know if he's a teen prodigy without trying him. He's not being asked to start every game anyway. I would just like to see him come in for Romero until he returns. Just because he hasn't played much in the Championship doesn't mean he can't play yet. Its all part of his growth and he has to start some time. With the issues we have now there's no expectation so maybe now is the best time.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,320
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We won't know if he's a teen prodigy without trying him. He's not being asked to start every game anyway. I would just like to see him come in for Romero until he returns. Just because he hasn't played much in the Championship doesn't mean he can't play yet. Its all part of his growth and he has to start some time. With the issues we have now there's no expectation so maybe now is the best time.
Do you really believe that football coaches don't know a top talent until they've watched them in a Prem game?
 

mil1lion

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May 7, 2004
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Do you really believe that football coaches don't know a top talent until they've watched them in a Prem game?
Yeah I don't see how a manager can know until they see them tested at that level. They can of course tell a lot from training but until they play in a true game you can never really know. There's nothing like the real thing to prepare a player. Kulusevski suggested he looks good in training and the level is high so that sounds promising. A true match is where you really see where they're at though.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
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What's like on set-pieces? If he wasn't ready for the Championship, how have we made him Prem ready within a few months?

This idea that Dier not being good enough therefore we should throw a teenager to the wolves is crazy to me.

Look how quickly fans lost confidence in Skipp. He went from being a future first teamer to will never be good enough within a few months.

Some bad performances by Phillips will not help him.
Again, we won't know until we try him. Dier's always been shit at set pieces anyway, fallen asleep countless times over the years, so it's not much of downgrade.

Always remember Rooney talking about first training with Everton's 1st team:

"It's mad how quick it changed," Rooney said. "For me to go in with Duncan [Ferguson], Stubbsy [Alan Stubbs], all of them who I grew up watching, to then go and play with them, train with them every day and play with them, so quickly I remember thinking 'these are crap'."
 
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michaelj70

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2004
472
267
What's like on set-pieces? If he wasn't ready for the Championship, how have we made him Prem ready within a few months?

This idea that Dier not being good enough therefore we should throw a teenager to the wolves is crazy to me.

Look how quickly fans lost confidence in Skipp. He went from being a future first teamer to will never be good enough within a few months.

Some bad performances by Phillips will not help him.
Don't put everyone in same basket Not everyone thought Skipp was next best thing If a youngster is ready give him a chance Yes Manager should/ will know not necessarily us on a forum
Btw I think Gil is ready but no idea of his fitness If once get a ref who understands difference between shoulder to shoulder and a foul Bbtw2 I agree with Zerbi about refs
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
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Don't put everyone in same basket Not everyone thought Skipp was next best thing If a youngster is ready give him a chance Yes Manager should/ will know not necessarily us on a forum
Btw I think Gil is ready but no idea of his fitness If once get a ref who understands difference between shoulder to shoulder and a foul Bbtw2 I agree with Zerbi about refs
I didn’t say everyone thought Skipp was the next best thing.

If the manager thought Phillips was ready, now is the time to play him.

He isn’t. It’s the fans calling for it despite us knowing next to nothing about him.
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,083
6,390
What's like on set-pieces? If he wasn't ready for the Championship, how have we made him Prem ready within a few months?

This idea that Dier not being good enough therefore we should throw a teenager to the wolves is crazy to me.

Look how quickly fans lost confidence in Skipp. He went from being a future first teamer to will never be good enough within a few months.

Some bad performances by Phillips will not help him.

It’s 6 months a year on he was 17 Yeats old, I’m not saying his ready just his older hopefully wiser and physically more mature.

Would dire look better with some pace around him ?
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,511
330,451
What's like on set-pieces? If he wasn't ready for the Championship, how have we made him Prem ready within a few months?

This idea that Dier not being good enough therefore we should throw a teenager to the wolves is crazy to me.

Look how quickly fans lost confidence in Skipp. He went from being a future first teamer to will never be good enough within a few months.

Some bad performances by Phillips will not help him.
No one is saying with any degree of certainty he is ready, but it's very clearly a horses for courses answer here. You say he wasn't ready for the Championship playing the way Blackburn play, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been more ready playing a different way.

The way I see it he has more attributes made for Ange's style of play than any of the current alternatives who don't really have any.
 

Led Revolver

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2012
877
3,212
He can you play how you want to play going forwards by playing a player with no future who has none of the necessary attributes!? Introducing Phillips and Donley should be how we approach this period. It makes perfect sense to.

If we’d progressed in the League cup, we’d have more likely seen these 2 players already.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
6,924
12,438
Poch never played Dier as a centre back for 4-5 seasons, does this not alone demonstrate that the only person who thinks Dier is a centre back is Dier himself!
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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Poch never played Dier as a centre back for 4-5 seasons, does this not alone demonstrate that the only person who thinks Dier is a centre back is Dier himself!
Dier was different then. He moved a bit better and was good in midfield at the time. He seemed to never be the same after his abdominal issue. He wasn't able to cope in midfield anymore so got moved to centre back by Jose. I also think the game changed over the years and players have to be a lot more press resistant now. The game just seems to have passed him by at this level. He had a good run under Conte season before last. That should have been the time to sell and have him leave on a high note. Yet just as with others like Lloris and Vertonghen we keep him too long so he ends up a shadow of his old self. It's not a nice note to leave on but it's not really the players fault. Even Moura was like that too, he was good for a couple of years but then we see him at the end looking so poor it's hard to watch. At least he got that nice goal to cap his time off but offered nothing for too long and his moment of madness at Liverpool was hard to watch.
 

isaac94

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Painfully predictable that this would happen in his first start, simply not good enough, Ange is who I feel sorry for, having to have this guy as a third choice CB
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,008
20,146
My two pennies, I think Dier used to be quite tactically astute and always seemed to have a good footballing brain. The problem nowadays is that his reactions have slowed over the years and passages of play now seem to pass him by where he's quite easily dragged out of position and unable to recover.

When he was in his pomp with Toby & Jan behind him you would always see him reading the game and moving into the spaces nicely but when they moved on (and weren't adequately replaced) he was required to move back to fill in their roles and would often appear to be out of position due to him covering somebody else's mistakes and ending up in no-mans land.

I think he's the sort of player who'll make a good coach in the future but for now he needs a new environment for his own sanity as much as anything else. Can see him moving to Spain or Portugal as he speaks the language and would enjoy the weather a bit more but can't see anybody giving him a big contract even on a free.
 
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