Eric Dier

[dontcallme]

I agree, it's crazy. But then again, you're never going to get a balanced view on a football forum.

It's the logic I don't get.

"He's a bad football manager, so this other guy has to be great."

How does anyone think that makes sense?

 

[thelak]

It's a constant thing on this site.

"This first team player isn't good enough, so this youngster we know nothing about must be better."

We've seen it numerous times in the past. This year, it's Phillips.

An 18 year old who couldn't get into a mid table Championship side, has to be ready for a Prem side looking for top 4. It's insane.

No one knows or thinks Philips will be any better

but they do know Dier is clearly finished here as a player and is awful

It’s a fairly simple logic then to give a young player, presumably signed due to high potential some valuable minutes when at worst the outcome is likely to be no different than the defeat we just had and at best he might surprise people

Philips has played first team football too

ultimately Ange will know best based on what he sees but fans understably frustrated at seeing Dier back in a spurs team.

Selling Sanchez for a few £ was presumably done on the basis Philips was an option too - or Levy just couldnt resist some cash

 

[dontcallme]

I don't think anyone has said Phillips is better than Dier? Just they would prefer to see him make mistakes than Dier. I think its fair to want to see how he does especially as we have no pace at all in centre back atm. Once Romero is back then him alongside Davies will be fine though. Its just the Dier and Davies combination fans are tired of so just want something new.

The constant calling for him to play certainly suggests people think he's good.

Below are the kind of posts that are becoming regular. Have removed posters' names as my aim isn't about calling people out.

"We can’t use Dier anymore. It’s a bigger risk playing him than the likes of Phillips and Dorrington. I’d rather Emerson played ahead of him. Utter clown."

"Don't think dier and Davies were bad but Phillips should have started this game."

 

[djhotspur]

I don't think anyone has said Phillips is better than Dier? Just they would prefer to see him make mistakes than Dier. I think its fair to want to see how he does especially as we have no pace at all in centre back atm. Once Romero is back then him alongside Davies will be fine though. Its just the Dier and Davies combination fans are tired of so just want something new.

Yeah it’s weird. Phillips and dorrington conceded 3 to Peterborough, to think they’d come in a deal with premiership attackers is laughable

 

[dontcallme]

No one knows or thinks Philips will be any better

but they do know Dier is clearly finished here as a player and is awful

It’s a fairly simple logic then to give a young player, presumably signed due to high potential some valuable minutes when at worst the outcome is likely to be no different than the defeat we just had and at best he might surprise people

It's certainly simple logic, I'll give you that much.

The idea that we should play a youngster who last year couldn't get in the Blackburn team because another player isn't good enough is insane.

It's something football fans say, but no Prem manager does.

I think there's a good reason for that.

 

[djhotspur]

It's certainly simple logic, I'll give you that much.

The idea that we should play a youngster who last year couldn't get in the Blackburn team because another player isn't good enough is insane.

It's something football fans say, but no Prem manager does.

I think there's a good reason for that.

Yup. There’s a reason arsenal waited until saliba was 21 to play him and he’s a truly elite talent at cb arguably a generational talent.

 

[thelak]

It's certainly simple logic, I'll give you that much.

The idea that we should play a youngster who last year couldn't get in the Blackburn team because another player isn't good enough is insane.

It's something football fans say, but no Prem manager does.

I think there's a good reason for that.

ultimately Ange has to chose between two terrible options for a club with supposed high ambitions

 

[mil1lion]

The constant calling for him to play certainly suggests people think he's good.

Below are the kind of posts that are becoming regular. Have removed posters' names as my aim isn't about calling people out.

"We can’t use Dier anymore. It’s a bigger risk playing him than the likes of Phillips and Dorrington. I’d rather Emerson played ahead of him. Utter clown."

"Don't think dier and Davies were bad but Phillips should have started this game."

I think its just people want to see how he does. I don't think anyone is saying he's good enough because none of us know. Some of the Dier comments are over the top though. He's not terrible, he just makes crucial mistakes and at times will get punished at this level. It's just people are going to be more forgiving if Phillips makes mistakes as he's young and will learn. Dier is not getting any better and leaving soon. I guess if we lose a game it's still 0 points so maybe bedding in a youngster is the better choice than someone who has no future.

 

[dontcallme]

ultimately Ange has to chose between two terrible options for a club with supposed high ambitions

That is true.

One injury and we have the choice of playing a player we know has been under par for years or throw in a youngster when he almost certainly isn't ready.

 

[dontcallme]

I think its just people want to see how he does. I don't think anyone is saying he's good enough because none of us know. Some of the Dier comments are over the top though. He's not terrible, he just makes crucial mistakes and at times will get punished at this level. It's just people are going to be more forgiving if Phillips makes mistakes as he's young and will learn. Dier is not getting any better and leaving soon. I guess if we lose a game it's still 0 points so maybe bedding in a youngster is the better choice than someone who has no future.

No Prem manager plays youngsters before they're ready. This is something only fans ask for.

That alone is enough to tell me this logic is deeply flawed.

Phillips couldn't get into the Blackburn side. If he makes mistakes or isn't ready and we suffer a heavy defeat because of this, how does that help him?

 

[mil1lion]

Yup. There’s a reason arsenal waited until saliba was 21 to play him and he’s a truly elite talent at cb arguably a generational talent.

They loaned him didn't they and then he performed from the start. So who knows how he does if he doesn't go on loan first. Same for Udogie. Were they really not ready the previous season or did the selling club get sold on the sale with the agreement of a loan more acceptable? I think it shows how young defenders can be ready now. Even VdV was not considered experienced enough and has bossed it at 22. I admit 18 may be a bit too young though but maybe not for a backup.

 

[mil1lion]

No Prem manager plays youngsters before they're ready. This is something only fans ask for.

That alone is enough to tell me this logic is deeply flawed.

Phillips couldn't get into the Blackburn side. If he makes mistakes or isn't ready and we suffer a heavy defeat because of this, how does that help him?

How can they know if they're ready? You can only know when you play them. Unless they're really poor in training. Although even then some players are poor in training and better in a match. The fact is none of us see him in training so obviously we can only take a guess. Yet this is a forum and it's just a place to throw suggestions out there. Otherwise it would be a pretty empty site if we could only discuss things that the manager does and not offer our own suggestion. Player x is consistently letting us down so maybe try player y? I don't see the issue with that.

 

[djhotspur]

They loaned him didn't they and then he performed from the start. So who knows how he does if he doesn't go on loan first. Same for Udogie. Were they really not ready the previous season or did the selling club get sold on the sale with the agreement of a loan more acceptable? I think it shows how young defenders can be ready now. Even VdV was not considered experienced enough and has bossed it at 22. I admit 18 may be a bit too young though but maybe not for a backup.

Yeah I think it’s more of a physical development point. It’s very different got defenders than forwards. You need to be physically ready as even small prem attackers are very strong.
If he was 20/21 I’d throw him in I just 18 is too young.
Vdv was at least starting at 21 in the bundesliga and is clearly a monster physically

 

[Trix]

It's certainly simple logic, I'll give you that much.

The idea that we should play a youngster who last year couldn't get in the Blackburn team because another player isn't good enough is insane.

It's something football fans say, but no Prem manager does.

I think there's a good reason for that.

The thing is we know what Ange is asking of our CB's. We also know what Dier is capable of and what he isn't. The simple fact is that the two are a complete mismatch. At least Phillips is quick and agile as a CB even if he's not the complete answer yet. I personally don't blame DIer for Saturday. He is what he is, and that is not a highline defender comfortable passing out under pressure.

 

[dontcallme]

The thing is we know what Ange is asking of our CB's. We also know what Dier is capable of and what he isn't. The simple fact is that the two are a complete mismatch. At least Phillips is quick and agile as a CB even if he's not the complete answer yet. I personally don't blame DIer for Saturday. He is what he is, and that is not a highline defender comfortable passing out under pressure.

I completely agree with your analysis of Dier.

But that doesn't mean we should throw in a teenager with fuck all experience and couldn't get into a Championship team last season.

 

[Trix]

I completely agree with your analysis of Dier.

But that doesn't mean we should throw in a teenager with fuck all experience and couldn't get into a Championship team last season.

He's been on the bench numerous times this season already, so you'd like to think he's close in the managers mind or what's the point?

 

[dontcallme]

He's been on the bench numerous times this season already, so you'd like to think he's close in the managers mind or what's the point?

Outside of elite teenage talents like Foden, Rooney, etc I can't think of any teenagers who got all their experience by starting for a top 6 Prem side.

I've read nothing that suggests Phillips is a teen prodigy.

I hope he has a good future and to fulfil his potential he needs to be developed in the right way. History suggests this isn't simply throwing him in the deep end.

We fucked up by not signing another centre back. But this doesn't mean we should develop Phillips in such a bad way.

 

[Trix]

Outside of elite teenage talents like Foden, Rooney, etc I can't think of any teenagers who got all their experience by starting for a top 6 Prem side.

I've read nothing that suggests Phillips is a teen prodigy.

I hope he has a good future and to fulfil his potential he needs to be developed in the right way. History suggests this isn't simply throwing him in the deep end.

We fucked up by not signing another centre back. But this doesn't mean we should develop Phillips in such a bad way.

Well that might be, but one thing I am sure of is that Dier is 100% not the answer to any footballing question Ange is asking from his players. I don't see us winning a game until Romero returns and if he ends up partnering him when he does come back I fear we will lose even more points such is his inability to play this brand of football.

 

[djhotspur]

Outside of elite teenage talents like Foden, Rooney, etc I can't think of any teenagers who got all their experience by starting for a top 6 Prem side.

I've read nothing that suggests Phillips is a teen prodigy.

I hope he has a good future and to fulfil his potential he needs to be developed in the right way. History suggests this isn't simply throwing him in the deep end.

We fucked up by not signing another centre back. But this doesn't mean we should develop Phillips in such a bad way.

Saka, sterling, Lennon, palmer, cho etc there have been loads. It’s just not usual in the back line.

 

[dontcallme]

Saka, sterling, Lennon, palmer, cho etc there have been loads. It’s just not usual in the back line.

I clearly said non-elite teenage talents.

Saka, Sterling and Lennon all come under that. Even if Lennon didn't go onto be elite.

Palmer is 21 so not a teenager. HIs lack of playing time has stunted his development. If you look at the French squad, most have over 100 professional games under their belt by the age of 21. Palmer has 28, pretty much all sub appearances.

Edit: Lennon had also played 27 games in the Championship before coming to us.