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Club Winning Mentality

goughie1966

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
5,153
17,877
Tottenham Hotspur lose football games. The greatest teams lose football games. I accept that, it's football and what makes the game great.

On Saturday I was as disappointed by anyone with the defeat against Brighton. Some of the reactions on here have been way over the top to the players and manager. We will lose games against the likes of Brighton in the future as well. It happens. But what worries me is not the players and staff. It's the club.

It has no winning mentality. Yes we have Conte. But Conte won't be enough. It starts from the top, the club, everything associated with Tottenham Hotspur should have Conte's attitude and winning mentality. The club should be screaming winners with everything it does. It doesn't, shiny stadium or not.

Does playing 'can't smile without you' by Barry Manilow create an intimidating, winning atmosphere before a game? I think not. Take a look at what Dortmund do before every game. And I hate to say it, but look at Liverpool. We may be getting close to them on the pitch again but off it we're miles from their winning mentality. Their whole club is about winning. I saw fans on here laughing at the fact Liverpool fans were greeting the away coach with flares and intimidation recently. Really, I loved that. Walk out to start a game in Anfield and just look at it. Incredible stuff. We had Barry fucking Manilow in a must win game.

I was seeing a lot on social media that left me concerned before the game started against Brighton. There was a really happy, holiday feel to people in and outside of the stadium. I don't like it. Now of course I don't want to go back to the hooligan days of the 70's which I experienced. But I do want the opposition to know they are coming to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and they're not coming for a nice fucking day in the sun!

Tottenham Hotspur stadium should be a fortress. It should be a cauldron of noise and intimidation. Opposition players should walk out on to that pitch bricking it. It was the complete opposite on Saturday. Within 5 minutes of the game starting the majority of us knew what was going to happen. The club created a holiday vibe on the day, that was reflected in the fans and finally it transferred to the players. It was played like a pre-season friendly.

Whereas we fans were hugely disappointed not by the result but by the whole performance and lack of atmosphere in the stadium, the owners will be looking at the profit and loss sheet on Lattes and cheese sales. The club is winning financially and I hope the money the club turns over in the following years results in trophies, I'm not convinced it will and we'll be winners on the P&L sheet but no trophies.

Conte said last week every game should be played like a cup final to the end of the season. Honestly, is that what we got from the club on Saturday? No we didn't. We got a party. It was all wrong from the start at the top and trickled all the way down to the fans and players. What winning club would allow Harry Kane to go to the Masters to watch the golf on Sunday? Mind blowing.

Tottenham Hotspur football club can do this. They've done it before. This is how every game at Tottenham Hotspur should be like, below. Yes we will still lose football matches. But let's start at the top and have that winning mentality. Let's think and act like a winning club, even if we're not. The mindset needs to change, starting from the top. No more 'It's Tottenham, lads'. No more Barry Manilow - this is what we need pre-match, create our own white wall behind the goal. The club should be providing every fan on our wall with a banner, flags. Let's see some flares. Let's intimidate the opposition before they walk out onto the pitch. Let's start a football match like it's a cup final at every home game.

If we had this below on Saturday, would we really have put that performance in against Brighton. We'll never know, but I'd be amazed if the players would've put that performance out on Saturday if they'd walked out to this.

 

Tottenham_God

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2011
2,951
5,655
Tottenham Hotspur lose football games. The greatest teams lose football games. I accept that, it's football and what makes the game great.

On Saturday I was as disappointed by anyone with the defeat against Brighton. Some of the reactions on here have been way over the top to the players and manager. We will lose games against the likes of Brighton in the future as well. It happens. But what worries me is not the players and staff. It's the club.

It has no winning mentality. Yes we have Conte. But Conte won't be enough. It starts from the top, the club, everything associated with Tottenham Hotspur should have Conte's attitude and winning mentality. The club should be screaming winners with everything it does. It doesn't, shiny stadium or not.

Does playing 'can't smile without you' by Barry Manilow create an intimidating, winning atmosphere before a game? I think not. Take a look at what Dortmund do before every game. And I hate to say it, but look at Liverpool. We may be getting close to them on the pitch again but off it we're miles from their winning mentality. Their whole club is about winning. I saw fans on here laughing at the fact Liverpool fans were greeting the away coach with flares and intimidation recently. Really, I loved that. Walk out to start a game in Anfield and just look at it. Incredible stuff. We had Barry fucking Manilow in a must win game.

I was seeing a lot on social media that left me concerned before the game started against Brighton. There was a really happy, holiday feel to people in and outside of the stadium. I don't like it. Now of course I don't want to go back to the hooligan days of the 70's which I experienced. But I do want the opposition to know they are coming to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and they're not coming for a nice fucking day in the sun!

Tottenham Hotspur stadium should be a fortress. It should be a cauldron of noise and intimidation. Opposition players should walk out on to that pitch bricking it. It was the complete opposite on Saturday. Within 5 minutes of the game starting the majority of us knew what was going to happen. The club created a holiday vibe on the day, that was reflected in the fans and finally it transferred to the players. It was played like a pre-season friendly.

Whereas we fans were hugely disappointed not by the result but by the whole performance and lack of atmosphere in the stadium, the owners will be looking at the profit and loss sheet on Lattes and cheese sales. The club is winning financially and I hope the money the club turns over in the following years results in trophies, I'm not convinced it will and we'll be winners on the P&L sheet but no trophies.

Conte said last week every game should be played like a cup final to the end of the season. Honestly, is that what we got from the club on Saturday? No we didn't. We got a party. It was all wrong from the start at the top and trickled all the way down to the fans and players. What winning club would allow Harry Kane to go to the Masters to watch the golf on Sunday? Mind blowing.

Tottenham Hotspur football club can do this. They've done it before. This is how every game at Tottenham Hotspur should be like, below. Yes we will still lose football matches. But let's start at the top and have that winning mentality. Let's think and act like a winning club, even if we're not. The mindset needs to change, starting from the top. No more 'It's Tottenham, lads'. No more Barry Manilow - this is what we need pre-match, create our own white wall behind the goal. The club should be providing every fan on our wall with a banner, flags. Let's see some flares. Let's intimidate the opposition before they walk out onto the pitch. Let's start a football match like it's a cup final at every home game.

If we had this below on Saturday, would we really have put that performance in against Brighton. We'll never know, but I'd be amazed if the players would've put that performance out on Saturday if they'd walked out to this.


What an unnecessary moan, which will inevitably end up being yet another thread that's basically a way to complain about Levy/ENIC/,Lewis.

Yay!
Is there any practical way for us fans to vote/have a say on the songs played before games?

I am not against the idea of creating a more hostile environment, but where does this start and how does it become "culture"? Do the fans all mutually agree and therefore behave differently before and during games?
 

Stavrogin

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2004
2,390
1,565
Tottenham Hotspur lose football games. The greatest teams lose football games. I accept that, it's football and what makes the game great.

On Saturday I was as disappointed by anyone with the defeat against Brighton. Some of the reactions on here have been way over the top to the players and manager. We will lose games against the likes of Brighton in the future as well. It happens. But what worries me is not the players and staff. It's the club.

It has no winning mentality. Yes we have Conte. But Conte won't be enough. It starts from the top, the club, everything associated with Tottenham Hotspur should have Conte's attitude and winning mentality. The club should be screaming winners with everything it does. It doesn't, shiny stadium or not.

Does playing 'can't smile without you' by Barry Manilow create an intimidating, winning atmosphere before a game? I think not. Take a look at what Dortmund do before every game. And I hate to say it, but look at Liverpool. We may be getting close to them on the pitch again but off it we're miles from their winning mentality. Their whole club is about winning. I saw fans on here laughing at the fact Liverpool fans were greeting the away coach with flares and intimidation recently. Really, I loved that. Walk out to start a game in Anfield and just look at it. Incredible stuff. We had Barry fucking Manilow in a must win game.

I was seeing a lot on social media that left me concerned before the game started against Brighton. There was a really happy, holiday feel to people in and outside of the stadium. I don't like it. Now of course I don't want to go back to the hooligan days of the 70's which I experienced. But I do want the opposition to know they are coming to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and they're not coming for a nice fucking day in the sun!

Tottenham Hotspur stadium should be a fortress. It should be a cauldron of noise and intimidation. Opposition players should walk out on to that pitch bricking it. It was the complete opposite on Saturday. Within 5 minutes of the game starting the majority of us knew what was going to happen. The club created a holiday vibe on the day, that was reflected in the fans and finally it transferred to the players. It was played like a pre-season friendly.

Whereas we fans were hugely disappointed not by the result but by the whole performance and lack of atmosphere in the stadium, the owners will be looking at the profit and loss sheet on Lattes and cheese sales. The club is winning financially and I hope the money the club turns over in the following years results in trophies, I'm not convinced it will and we'll be winners on the P&L sheet but no trophies.

Conte said last week every game should be played like a cup final to the end of the season. Honestly, is that what we got from the club on Saturday? No we didn't. We got a party. It was all wrong from the start at the top and trickled all the way down to the fans and players. What winning club would allow Harry Kane to go to the Masters to watch the golf on Sunday? Mind blowing.

Tottenham Hotspur football club can do this. They've done it before. This is how every game at Tottenham Hotspur should be like, below. Yes we will still lose football matches. But let's start at the top and have that winning mentality. Let's think and act like a winning club, even if we're not. The mindset needs to change, starting from the top. No more 'It's Tottenham, lads'.



Thing is, being financially aggressive/cutthroat is a kind of winning mentality and that hasn't filtered down. Managers get violated frequently and with extreme prejudice - before Cup finals and even during games... that doesn't filter down so it's probably not that relevant to winning key matches.

Do the players listen/care about the music?

You make a good point re. Liverpool but I think it's just their positivity rather than winning mentality... and what did any of that achieve before klopp came and signed van dijk and Allison? But being loud and positive towards the club probably helps.

Winning mentality aside, I think it is true that clubs can get a winning momentum. That enough players/staff get used to winning in high profile games so that confidence can rub off on others. Or the occasion Is treated as more routine than otherwise.

This is partly why we have it harder than anyone else. Every big game for us is exponentially more important than for other clubs. No one else on our level has such a dearth of trophies meaning it doesn't matter much when Chelsea or arsenal reach a cup final... and clubs like West ham are seen as overachieving just to be there.

Similarly, how many other teams have to win cups or reach the champions league to keep their best players/managers? Leicester or Liverpool don't go into important matches fearing vardy or salah will leave if they lose. But we get that either because it's true or else It's media hysteria.

Same goes of the financial implications... stakes always seem higher for us or at least they are usually very apparent.

It's for this reason that I think it's very unlikely we'll make the top four. The fact that people have got over confident at this stage is baffling. As fans we need to cultivate a siege mentality. I don't want to laugh at arsenal I want to rip their lungs out.
 

Darth Vega

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2013
1,712
10,504
The reality is a bunch of money, good recruitment and a good coach are what lead to success. City can't even fill their stadium most of the time but look at how successful they are, and the Anfield atmosphere is a myth outside of a handful of European nights and derbies. No club in this country has the sort of atmosphere you're describing on a weekly basis, it just doesn't exist.

Maybe a more menacing atmosphere might have made a difference on Saturday but we had a great atmosphere at WHL and were mediocre for the first half of the Premier League era, and it's not realistic for the fans to be as amped up for a game against Brighton on a Saturday lunch-time the way they would be for a Champions League knockout match under the lights.

I feel like we always look for the silver bullet to success - especially after a defeat - but it's never that complicated. I'm sure there are a lot of small things we can improve across the board but if we spend well and have a good setup behind the scenes we'll be successful.
 

curlacious

Don’t look at me. I’m irrelevant.
Aug 29, 2017
2,133
10,160
We are roughly as successful as we should be given the investment in the team and the wage bill and where we stand in the financial 'class system' of the Premier League.

I think the issue isn't a winning mentality, it's the fans thinking we are somehow entitled to a team that would overperform our means - which we actually did for several years under Poch, not that long ago.

I think the Poch era has intensified this mentality, but it was always there before.
 

Trent Crimm

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
4,273
11,190
Can’t smile without you is a ridiculous song to come out to / get the tribe warmed up to. May as well throw some ABBA into the mix.

You need some serous noise pre game, something uplifting, not something that reminds you of some middle class, 70s romcom with Terry and June in it?
 

curlacious

Don’t look at me. I’m irrelevant.
Aug 29, 2017
2,133
10,160
Can’t smile without you is a ridiculous song to come out to / get the tribe warmed up to. May as well throw some ABBA into the mix.

You need some serous noise pre game, something uplifting, not something that reminds you of some middle class, 70s romcom with Terry and June in it?
 

Geyzer Soze

Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd
Aug 16, 2010
26,083
63,434
Hasn't it always been thus? Since the late 80's when I started paying attention it has anyway. Seems like it was better in the 60's. More than half a century ago
 

ajspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2007
23,421
32,049
Can’t smile without you is a ridiculous song to come out to / get the tribe warmed up to. May as well throw some ABBA into the mix.

You need some serous noise pre game, something uplifting, not something that reminds you of some middle class, 70s romcom with Terry and June in it?

Yeah I have to admit, I'm not any bit going down the path of 'we lost because the pre kick-off song was Can't Smile Without You' but I was not a fan of it myself.
 

Roy's Racers

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
175
305
We as a club, 1st XII, women, youth players and fan base need do to as much as we can within reason to constantly improve and win, again and again and break a stereotype that has been created around the club of being 'Spursy' or 'Lads, its Tottenham' crap. Whether it's the music that players walk out to, the crowd chants, the kit design whatever. These things change throughout the years anyway, so I get the point the OP makes.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
What an unnecessary moan, which will inevitably end up being yet another thread that's basically a way to complain about Levy/ENIC/,Lewis.

Yay!
Disagree mate I think the poster made some very good points about the club as a whole.
We have always been seen as an easy touch which we we are at times this has been noted by rivals and media alike.
I get what he is alluding to in reference to say how Liverpool are who as a club feel they have a divine right to success and do win on a fairly regular basis.
The kop acts as a 12th Man the atmosphere they create almost sucks the ball into the net, despite the fabulous south stand this still doesn't create the desired atmosphere to intimidate as yet.
It is right to question the club as a whole from top to bottom it's difficult to see anyone who really looks as though the will to win runs through them like Conte has this will be hard work and I doubt we will get success like a Liverpool is having very doubtful.
 

longtimespur

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2014
5,920
10,146
In the late 50's and 60's the teams would come out to McNamarrsa's Band. Nothing special , just what we did,
Some games you could have heard a pin drop and then clapping for some good play. It wasn't all noise but considering we had the 50/51 winning team and then the 60's double winners it was quite on many occasions.
Think things changed at the same time as the hooligan problems emerged.

Hopefully my memory is good regarding this post!!
I'm sure there are others from that time that will correct me if otherwise.
 

Trent Crimm

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
4,273
11,190
Yeah I have to admit, I'm not any bit going down the path of 'we lost because the pre kick-off song was Can't Smile Without You' but I was not a fan of it myself.

Oh god yes. We don’t lose because of the music but that particular song doesn’t pump you up. You need some Metallica, GNR, anything that doesn’t remind you of an Enid Blyton book, lashings of ginger beer and gentle summer days.
 

The Doc

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2012
881
2,456
Yeah I have to admit, I'm not any bit going down the path of 'we lost because the pre kick-off song was Can't Smile Without You' but I was not a fan of it myself.
Love the idea this could actually be a factor in us losing to Brighton Just out of interest, what did we play before the games against Everton, West Ham and Newcastle? Imagine it must have been some hardcore death metal, or perhaps some drill to get the boys going?
 

HodisGawd

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2005
1,756
6,058
Disagree mate I think the poster made some very good points about the club as a whole.
We have always been seen as an easy touch which we we are at times this has been noted by rivals and media alike.
I get what he is alluding to in reference to say how Liverpool are who as a club feel they have a divine right to success and do win on a fairly regular basis.
The kop acts as a 12th Man the atmosphere they create almost sucks the ball into the net, despite the fabulous south stand this still doesn't create the desired atmosphere to intimidate as yet.
It is right to question the club as a whole from top to bottom it's difficult to see anyone who really looks as though the will to win runs through them like Conte has this will be hard work and I doubt we will get success like a Liverpool is having very doubtful.
It seems to me you are blaming the fans here. Liverpool and Spurs are two clubs run in a very similar way off the pitch. But you say the Kop sucks the ball into the goal but our support doesn't. Our management have built the stand for us to do that, but according to you us fans are not doing the business.
 
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