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Club Winning Mentality

TheSpillage

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2013
923
2,691
Disagree mate I think the poster made some very good points about the club as a whole.
We have always been seen as an easy touch which we we are at times this has been noted by rivals and media alike.
I get what he is alluding to in reference to say how Liverpool are who as a club feel they have a divine right to success and do win on a fairly regular basis.
The kop acts as a 12th Man the atmosphere they create almost sucks the ball into the net, despite the fabulous south stand this still doesn't create the desired atmosphere to intimidate as yet.
It is right to question the club as a whole from top to bottom it's difficult to see anyone who really looks as though the will to win runs through them like Conte has this will be hard work and I doubt we will get success like a Liverpool is having very doubtful.
It does when they‘re playing in Europe. It does when they’re challenging for titles (although not actually when playing against many of the ’lesser’ teams).

But during those seasons when Liverpool were fighting for 5th and 6th, the atmosphere at Anfield was the same as at Spurs and most other Premier League stadia: generally quite sterile except for occasional moments/games.

If Spurs challenge for titles or get back into the Champions League then we’ll have plenty of nights where the atmosphere is raucous and intimidating. We’ll also still have plenty of nights which are flat and disappointing. It’s modern football.

I think we still have one of the better home supports of the top 6.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
It does when they‘re playing in Europe. It does when they’re challenging for titles (although not actually when playing against many of the ’lesser’ teams).

But during those seasons when Liverpool were fighting for 5th and 6th, the atmosphere at Anfield was the same as at Spurs and most other Premier League stadia: generally quite sterile except for occasional moments/games.

If Spurs challenge for titles or get back into the Champions League then we’ll have plenty of nights where the atmosphere is raucous and intimidating. We’ll also still have plenty of nights which are flat and disappointing. It’s modern football.

I think we still have one of the better home supports of the top 6.
I appreciate that when teams are doing well the support perhaps intensifies but Liverpool have always had magnificent support with their song very stirring compared to Barry manilow like the other poster mentioned.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
It seems to me you are blaming the fans here. Liverpool and Spurs are two clubs run in a very similar way off the pitch. But you say the Kop sucks the ball into the goal but our support doesn't. Our management have built the stand for us to do that, but according to you us fans are not doing the business.
Er ok mate thanks for that
 

ajspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2007
23,421
32,049
Love the idea this could actually be a factor in us losing to Brighton Just out of interest, what did we play before the games against Everton, West Ham and Newcastle? Imagine it must have been some hardcore death metal, or perhaps some drill to get the boys going?

I'm not sure it's the same one every time but seems like it may be just some generic upbeat song. I'm pretty sure no one is actually insinuating that it's a reason for defeat though and I wasn't actually going to say anything about it but I do remember at the time thinking that it felt almost out of place to me. If others didn't feel similar and bring it up on here I probably would have just forgotten about it really.
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2008
3,806
16,254
It does when they‘re playing in Europe. It does when they’re challenging for titles (although not actually when playing against many of the ’lesser’ teams).

But during those seasons when Liverpool were fighting for 5th and 6th, the atmosphere at Anfield was the same as at Spurs and most other Premier League stadia: generally quite sterile except for occasional moments/games.

If Spurs challenge for titles or get back into the Champions League then we’ll have plenty of nights where the atmosphere is raucous and intimidating. We’ll also still have plenty of nights which are flat and disappointing. It’s modern football.

I think we still have one of the better home supports of the top 6.
You're absolutely correct - the so called "Kop factor' is a complete fallacy in most games
 

TheSpillage

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2013
923
2,691
I appreciate that when teams are doing well the support perhaps intensifies but Liverpool have always had magnificent support with their song very stirring compared to Barry manilow like the other poster mentioned.
Yeah, I agree that “You’ll never walk alone“ is more impressive but, as soon as the whistle blows, the atmosphere settles down to a similar feel to most other grounds (other than the European/title challenge factor I mentioned before).
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
We are roughly as successful as we should be given the investment in the team and the wage bill and where we stand in the financial 'class system' of the Premier League.

I think the issue isn't a winning mentality, it's the fans thinking we are somehow entitled to a team that would overperform our means - which we actually did for several years under Poch, not that long ago.

I think the Poch era has intensified this mentality, but it was always there before.

I disagree entirely... I look at Liverpool a sthe benchmark because we were ahead of them but they sorted their recruitment out and bought big but bought the best within their means. We went big and bought GLC and Ndombele and Sanchez. I hope that will change in terms of recruitment... Its about investment in the right areas and on the right players in key positions. Liverpool needed a great keeper/defender to how they play, we need great wing backs to suit our way of playing. We do have higher expectations - thats what you get with progression and us positioning ourselves as one of the elite (Levy would put us up there) so about time we acted like a big club.


As for the atmosphere - the atmosphere at Spurs isnt great but really its because we have shite songs and shite songs dont encourage singing and that raucous atmosphere. Only so many times you can go to spurs and sing the white stripes to literally any player... I mean apart from Oh when the spurs - do we have any real club songs? Im a big believer of club songs over player songs - players come and fuck off.. so im not bothered by that....
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
Tottenham Hotspur lose football games. The greatest teams lose football games. I accept that, it's football and what makes the game great.

On Saturday I was as disappointed by anyone with the defeat against Brighton. Some of the reactions on here have been way over the top to the players and manager. We will lose games against the likes of Brighton in the future as well. It happens. But what worries me is not the players and staff. It's the club.

It has no winning mentality. Yes we have Conte. But Conte won't be enough. It starts from the top, the club, everything associated with Tottenham Hotspur should have Conte's attitude and winning mentality. The club should be screaming winners with everything it does. It doesn't, shiny stadium or not.

Does playing 'can't smile without you' by Barry Manilow create an intimidating, winning atmosphere before a game? I think not. Take a look at what Dortmund do before every game. And I hate to say it, but look at Liverpool. We may be getting close to them on the pitch again but off it we're miles from their winning mentality. Their whole club is about winning. I saw fans on here laughing at the fact Liverpool fans were greeting the away coach with flares and intimidation recently. Really, I loved that. Walk out to start a game in Anfield and just look at it. Incredible stuff. We had Barry fucking Manilow in a must win game.

I was seeing a lot on social media that left me concerned before the game started against Brighton. There was a really happy, holiday feel to people in and outside of the stadium. I don't like it. Now of course I don't want to go back to the hooligan days of the 70's which I experienced. But I do want the opposition to know they are coming to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and they're not coming for a nice fucking day in the sun!

Tottenham Hotspur stadium should be a fortress. It should be a cauldron of noise and intimidation. Opposition players should walk out on to that pitch bricking it. It was the complete opposite on Saturday. Within 5 minutes of the game starting the majority of us knew what was going to happen. The club created a holiday vibe on the day, that was reflected in the fans and finally it transferred to the players. It was played like a pre-season friendly.

Whereas we fans were hugely disappointed not by the result but by the whole performance and lack of atmosphere in the stadium, the owners will be looking at the profit and loss sheet on Lattes and cheese sales. The club is winning financially and I hope the money the club turns over in the following years results in trophies, I'm not convinced it will and we'll be winners on the P&L sheet but no trophies.

Conte said last week every game should be played like a cup final to the end of the season. Honestly, is that what we got from the club on Saturday? No we didn't. We got a party. It was all wrong from the start at the top and trickled all the way down to the fans and players. What winning club would allow Harry Kane to go to the Masters to watch the golf on Sunday? Mind blowing.

Tottenham Hotspur football club can do this. They've done it before. This is how every game at Tottenham Hotspur should be like, below. Yes we will still lose football matches. But let's start at the top and have that winning mentality. Let's think and act like a winning club, even if we're not. The mindset needs to change, starting from the top. No more 'It's Tottenham, lads'. No more Barry Manilow - this is what we need pre-match, create our own white wall behind the goal. The club should be providing every fan on our wall with a banner, flags. Let's see some flares. Let's intimidate the opposition before they walk out onto the pitch. Let's start a football match like it's a cup final at every home game.

If we had this below on Saturday, would we really have put that performance in against Brighton. We'll never know, but I'd be amazed if the players would've put that performance out on Saturday if they'd walked out to this.


Starting games on the front foot is something we've been struggling with for a long time. And once the opposition get a foot in the game it can be very difficult to get back on top.
As far as no shots on target goes, when we were dog shit I cant remember us every going up against anybody, ANYBODY, and not javingasingle shot on target. Maybe we did but it always seemed like we attacked.
teams at every opportunity.
 

Yantino

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2012
702
3,203
I completely agree with everything the OP has said. I’ve been saying the same thing for ages.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Yeah, I agree that “You’ll never walk alone“ is more impressive but, as soon as the whistle blows, the atmosphere settles down to a similar feel to most other grounds (other than the European/title challenge factor I mentioned before).
I suppose we could go around in circles over this it's really down to the view of each person.
As for Liverpool they have always enjoyed more success than us and will continue to do so regardless of songs or flags being waved.
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,855
106,083
It’s was always a cult classic but it shouldn’t be played before a game. Way to downbeat. Oh when the spurs is boring aswell.

On the winning mentality thing. Conte is a very good manager but I’m not declaring my unwavering love until he wins us something. Until then, I’ll get behind the team like I always do and leave the cockyness and arrogance to others in our fanbase that are no doubt chewing their Arsenal, west ham and chelsea mates ear off about how great we are and how we are now the real deal.
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,855
106,083
I appreciate that when teams are doing well the support perhaps intensifies but Liverpool have always had magnificent support with their song very stirring compared to Barry manilow like the other poster mentioned.

Not sure you can compare us tbh. Two very different clubs with different fanbases.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,728
15,022
I've always wondered what it would be like to start games with a more intense atmosphere where the club actively try to make it elevated. I genuinely can't understand why they dont. Spent billions on a stadium but not willing to hire someone to make the atmosphere more...just more

I always watched 90s NBA with a sense of jealousy that we couldn't generate that sort of excitement before kick-off.

The top comment in this YouTube video just says it all.
"If you heard this music in the playoffs then you knew your season was about to end"
 

DenverSpur

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2011
2,316
6,177
It seems to me you are blaming the fans here. Liverpool and Spurs are two clubs run in a very similar way off the pitch. But you say the Kop sucks the ball into the goal but our support doesn't. Our management have built the stand for us to do that, but according to you us fans are not doing the business.
He’s right though. The atmosphere in the new stadium is not intimidating. The South Stand is hardly The White Wall is it. The South Stand holds many more than the Kop but rarely makes anything like the same amount of noise. Unarguably Liverpool have a better team than us but I do think the atmosphere at Anfield has helped them have a very long unbeaten home record.
I also think that we appear to give the away support a bigger allocation than many other grounds. Subsequently the away section always sounds loud - often louder than the home support.
 

DenverSpur

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2011
2,316
6,177
Tottenham Hotspur lose football games. The greatest teams lose football games. I accept that, it's football and what makes the game great.

On Saturday I was as disappointed by anyone with the defeat against Brighton. Some of the reactions on here have been way over the top to the players and manager. We will lose games against the likes of Brighton in the future as well. It happens. But what worries me is not the players and staff. It's the club.

It has no winning mentality. Yes we have Conte. But Conte won't be enough. It starts from the top, the club, everything associated with Tottenham Hotspur should have Conte's attitude and winning mentality. The club should be screaming winners with everything it does. It doesn't, shiny stadium or not.

Does playing 'can't smile without you' by Barry Manilow create an intimidating, winning atmosphere before a game? I think not. Take a look at what Dortmund do before every game. And I hate to say it, but look at Liverpool. We may be getting close to them on the pitch again but off it we're miles from their winning mentality. Their whole club is about winning. I saw fans on here laughing at the fact Liverpool fans were greeting the away coach with flares and intimidation recently. Really, I loved that. Walk out to start a game in Anfield and just look at it. Incredible stuff. We had Barry fucking Manilow in a must win game.

I was seeing a lot on social media that left me concerned before the game started against Brighton. There was a really happy, holiday feel to people in and outside of the stadium. I don't like it. Now of course I don't want to go back to the hooligan days of the 70's which I experienced. But I do want the opposition to know they are coming to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and they're not coming for a nice fucking day in the sun!

Tottenham Hotspur stadium should be a fortress. It should be a cauldron of noise and intimidation. Opposition players should walk out on to that pitch bricking it. It was the complete opposite on Saturday. Within 5 minutes of the game starting the majority of us knew what was going to happen. The club created a holiday vibe on the day, that was reflected in the fans and finally it transferred to the players. It was played like a pre-season friendly.

Whereas we fans were hugely disappointed not by the result but by the whole performance and lack of atmosphere in the stadium, the owners will be looking at the profit and loss sheet on Lattes and cheese sales. The club is winning financially and I hope the money the club turns over in the following years results in trophies, I'm not convinced it will and we'll be winners on the P&L sheet but no trophies.

Conte said last week every game should be played like a cup final to the end of the season. Honestly, is that what we got from the club on Saturday? No we didn't. We got a party. It was all wrong from the start at the top and trickled all the way down to the fans and players. What winning club would allow Harry Kane to go to the Masters to watch the golf on Sunday? Mind blowing.

Tottenham Hotspur football club can do this. They've done it before. This is how every game at Tottenham Hotspur should be like, below. Yes we will still lose football matches. But let's start at the top and have that winning mentality. Let's think and act like a winning club, even if we're not. The mindset needs to change, starting from the top. No more 'It's Tottenham, lads'. No more Barry Manilow - this is what we need pre-match, create our own white wall behind the goal. The club should be providing every fan on our wall with a banner, flags. Let's see some flares. Let's intimidate the opposition before they walk out onto the pitch. Let's start a football match like it's a cup final at every home game.

If we had this below on Saturday, would we really have put that performance in against Brighton. We'll never know, but I'd be amazed if the players would've put that performance out on Saturday if they'd walked out to this.


You make some genuinely good points. I have actually very disappointed with the overall atmosphere in the new stadium. Nevertheless I don’t believe you can manufacture an atmosphere. All those messages on the boards at American stadiums telling the fans what and when to cheer is embarrassing.
I think it takes time with a new stadium to generate a genuine atmosphere. All the regulars from the from the old stadium are in different places. It takes time for them and the “new“ regulars to gell in their new locations and bond together to create a home crowd , to feel comfortable.
WHU have suffered a similar problem since moving from Upton Park. They are all beginning to feel more at home there now and that coupled with an upswing in their team’s performances has improved the atmosphere there.
A 12:30 kick off on a warm Saturday of the Easter weekend was always going to be difficult to get an atmosphere going. Nevertheless I think many fans there, and on here, had due to our recent form become complacent and expected a victory. The best atmospheres are always when there is a fear of losing mixed in with an expectancy of victory.
Apparently Conte’s favorite phrase with the players is “comfort is the enemy”. The fans in the stadium can never feel comfortable about a victory. They need that edge, that fear of defeat to spur(pun intended) on the team.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,911
5,879
Winning mentality is a key issue for our club, but it's bizarre to exemplify the fucking song on the loudspeaker as a real point of focus that would help address this. The atmosphere at Spurs is fine. It's better when there is a lot riding on the game and/or when we're in good form. That's universal and it doesn't matter that we don't get the same fawning coverage as Anfield or several other places. The Etihad isn't a "cauldron" of intimidation either, but they seem to do ok without it. Old Trafford used to be a 'fearful' atmosphere to enter, not anymore. Crystal Palace and Brentford seem to have a cracking atmosphere without needing death metal or Mike Tyson's solitary note of doom over the tannoy before kick off.

But the laser focus of Fenway Sports group to turn Liverpool into winners, and keep them there, is something ENIC should've adopted long before Fenway entered the fray. After Poch, we hired a guy hoping his 'winning mentality' would get us over the top, when it went quite expectedly in the opposite direction. We ripped up our script that had us truly competing and fucked around with cults of personality to get the job done. We're on a good trajectory now, two or three wasted seasons later, but ENIC must retain Conte, must support the strategy that could help Conte win, and must have some post-Conte planning in place that doesn't mean an entirely new script yet again.

If they do that, they can invite Barry Manilow to sing live before kick-off instead of playing the tape....and it won't matter a jot either way.
 

dickieven

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2006
2,067
2,955
Has anybody been to Anfield? The atmosphere there is very overrated. That fucking stupid You'll Never Walk Alone song at the beginning is not exactly something to get you on your feet and thumping your chest. On the big European nights and for the big games yes I am sure it is loud but then so is WHL (and new WHL). Liverpool just have a much better team than us at the moment, the Kop are not sucking the ball in to the net. When you are going for the title (and quadruple) then the whole ground is going to be more up for it. The team need to get the crowd going as well as the other way round. I have been at many games where the WHL crowd have been fantastic but we still were shit!

Having said that, I do agree that Barry Manilow is not my cup of tea for a pre kick off song.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
38,932
92,486
The Manilow song comes from the relegation season in the late 70s, so it has strong connections to the club. But it should be a post match song.

I actually think the whole 10 min build up of blaring video montages is bollocks. Fake atmosphere. Walk out to Macnamara's band and crack on.

As for the bank holiday vibe, I'm afraid that's part and parcel of having a 60k seater stadium in London. For a lunchtime KO you're going to get families and day trippers.

On 10 mins there were still people trying to find their seats, getting their fish and chips, chatting away... On 40 mins you saw half the crowd get up and go for their half time piss/pint/hot dogs. It stayed that way until 55 mins, before everyone realised they'd paid £80 for a match.

Imagine being a player, coming out for the second half, pumped up, and seeing a half empty stadium. Hardly getting behind the team. And of course everyone starts fucking off at 80 mins again.

But this is the normal now, and it doesn't just happen at ours. It's the typical match day experience.

Oh... And we don't have a fucking cheese room.
 

fieryjack

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2006
3,380
712
I went to most if not all the relegation season/promotion season games. Never heard the stupid Barry Manilow song once.
One of the favourites back then was “you’ll never make the station”.
 
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