Blackburn Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[Bus-Conductor]

There hasn't even been a game this year (apart from Liverpool) that I've said "wow, that was awesome" afterwards.

But if you look at the table, every result has made me say "wow, that was awesome!"

And that is how 'Arry has changed.

You make some very fair points in the rest of your post.

But I don't think beating Blackburn, Wolves or Wigan was "awesome", I honestly think with players like Parker, Sandro, Bale, Modric, VDV, Adebayor, King, Kaboul we should be expecting to beat those teams shouldn't we ?

I don't mean taking it for granted, I mean rational confidence, which comes from consistent performance and belief in our method and style ?

I thought we were excellent against Wigan, and I thought Redknapp's team and tactics were fine against Newcastle. But three lightweights in a 442 midfield away at Blackburn ? The subs ?

Modric and Kranjcar in cm against ManC ? VDV rm in a 442 against Arsenal ?

Just really poorly thought out decisions IMO.

I understand the irony of blaming the internet forums yet using one to get across my point, i'm just saying that's one of the reasons behind the recent impatience. No matter how much you discussed it with mates or via books, there is no way it would've been on the scale the internet has provided with people the other side of the world that you've never met, and the fact we're discussing this at 0220 on a Monday morning proves that. It's a blinding thing, don't get me wrong, but it's part of the reason, along with media outlets like SSN, that there is a growing impatience and need for everything to be analysed.

I've argued the point about Redknapp having one of the best squads on here before. My argument is that most new managers over the past few years have also had the best squads since the early 80's, and each one failed. When Santini took over, he had the best squad in years, when Jol took over, when Ramos took over etc. Fergie would say almost every season that we'll be a threat this season, and it never ever came to fruition. As you rightly say, Redknapp does deserve credit for his part in assembling it, he saw we needed a Palacios etc. But even the players he didn't buy he got the best out of. A hell of a lot of our current success (in terms of CL quallification) is down to him. Honestly, i do realise that he's not a tactical genius but he's far from the naive manager some make out to be. You mention that sometimes we still play football like we did with the shit teams, but look what's happened over the past few weeks, we're beginning to win our games, the ones we couldn't last season. Maybe he's helped instill the confidence needed to do this. Maybe buying Adebayor (who said himself that Harry was a major factor in him signing) and Parker was a masterstroke. Rafa has said how much he likes Redknapp and he doesn't seem like the sort of person who would hold back if he thought otherwise. And one of the reasons he likes him is because he's not the technician Mourinho is, no drawing boards etc. Maybe the main reason Modric didn't make a massive fuss like he could've in the summer was because Harry was saying all the right things publicly and privately. All these little factors add up to why we've been successful over the past 3 years.

Most of the time i wouldn't bother posting in Harry's defence, i don't feel i really need to. One of the main reasons i do is because i think that there may be a few youngsters on this forum that are easily led and will believe anything posted on here by the people who hate Harry. That may sound stupid but it genuinely worries me. I want them to realise we've never had it so good in nearly 30 years. I've always said i'm for constructive criticism, which includes things like we didn't press enough etc, but a lot of the recent stuff is unfounded and is just said to make a big statement without really thinking about what they're saying - in my opinion of course.

I thought that criticism overall last season was harsh considering it was our first time ever mixing CL and Prem football - and we did very well in both of them. I know we fucked up against the smaller teams towards the end of the season and some of the criticism was deserved, but on paper, quarter finals in our debut CL season and 5th in the league, which had been our highest placing for about 20 years before the previous season, isn't too shabby. This season, the criticism has completely baffled me, especially on our current run. The amount of negative posts considering our run is amazing, no?

We can't play the perfect game every week but 16 out of our last 18 points suggest we're doing better than you'd think reading this forum. We are performing better than the end of last season, our results show that, so the amount of criticism is sometimes odd.

Funny you should mention porn, because i've just finished watching 'Analyze Piss' online. I probably couldn't have done a better job to be honest :smile:

That's fair enough Bomber, and if you feel that criticism is unfair and can back up that argument then this is the place you should be.

But the "5th place and CL Qtr's is as good as it gets" bullshit doesn't wash with me and the fact that we were shit for a couple of decades doesn't hide the fact that Redknapp's own failings contributed enormously to us not getting CL football last year. Yes, 5th place is better than tenth. But 5th place, when it could and should have been 4th or even 3rd is not as good as it gets is it ?

We don't have to accept failure just because we are used to it.

Last week was the most disappointing result of the season so far for me, but I didn't turn that on Redknapp, as I didn't feel it was his fault, this is what I said last week when someone started a thread entitled "Team selection wrong vs Newcastle":

Redknapp made the right decisions personnel wise today and to say VDV doesn't work off Adebayor is plain wrong. These two have combined well now in every game and have combined to score three goals between the pair of them. How is that not working ?

Livermore, Kaboul and Bassong were never, at any time over run. In fact those three all coped varying degrees of well with what is a tough place and a very robust, physical team who the crowd can easily whip into a frenzy. They barely had any chances in that game because we were never over run.

The Bale right/Modric left thing was wrong, but Redknapp rectified that.

If we had made more intelligent use of several great positions we wouldn't be having any conversation about selection or tactics. Second half we pressed better, we got ourselves a deserved lead and were winning the battle as well. Until we let them score a goal from fuck all and get their backs up for the ast five minutes it was a decent enough performance by a decent team, set up pretty well for the occasion, which was a battle.

To be honest, I don't think the criticism levelled by some of us is unfair most of the time, and when we praise it is universally forgotten and the minute we criticise again it becomes "Harry Bashing".

I think Redknapp clearly has some good qualities and he makes some good, tough, decisions, and he clearly thinks sometimes about tactics, but I think he is not a "great" coach - evidenced by the way we have no endemic work ethic, are poorly organised at times, and players get away with not performing basic duties at times, and he his tactically limited. Being tactically limited is less important than the coaching thing, but at times it compounds the coaching thing.

But I will continue to applaud what he gets right, and criticise what he gets wrong, as I see it.

Of course, I think you'll find most people are and did enjoy the win with a cold one last night. But the nature of the way we've played against some of the poorer sides shows that we're not all that convincing.

It's not like it's a flash in the pan thing, our poor performances and flimsy midfield showing last year directly resulted in us missing out on the CL last year. I don't want a repeat.

Take United's hammering yesterday - the writing was on the wall for something like that, Chelsea, Norwich, Liverpool, Basel. Not one of those were lost, but they indicated that something wasn't quite right. I feel the same way with us in the last 3 games.

Good post, sums up how I think some of us feel.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Scariest thing to me though is the porno comparison. For a number of reasons.. One being that its a very poor comparison. It is actually a perfect example of the 'performance' being different to the reality (of sex). i.e. just because you can raise your old chap to half mast for 15 mins doesn't mean you're lasting 'scene length'. Think about the gaps between takes, the improbably positioning of organs in relation to cameras, having to do it with a fat man videotaping you, or simply having to do it with a fat man. Those guys are pros, heroes for masculinity if you will. I am sure B-C is a spectacular lover, but theres a clear difference between that and the performative act on screen - which is a precise illustration of the difference between remote punditry and actual management.

Of course I'm sure pretty much anyone can actually go and prove they could do a better job, without needing to go through getting badges and suchlike?

But could you do it on a wet Thursday in November, in Stoke?

Do I settle for a porn career (4th) , or hope to fuck (run around a bit) my way to hollywood (regular CL) ? Is my seedy come shot (CL Qtrs) "as good as it gets" ?

Is a wet thursday at Stoke the equivalent of anal porn ?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Do I settle for a porn career (4th) , or hope to fuck (run around a bit) my way to hollywood (regular CL) ? Is my seedy come shot (CL Qtrs) "as good as it gets" ?

Is a wet thursday at Stoke the equivalent of anal porn ?

I'd say more a golden shower.

 

[mike_l]

I don't want to be too negative after a win, but since the Liverpool game we seem to have slipped back into a lazy mentality of being happy to eek out results doing the bare minimum to get a win.

As soon as we go a goal up we sit back and hand the initiative back to the opposition, it seemed to happen 1st half yesterday (though tbf I didn't get to see the whole 1st half very well due to poor rivering) and definitely happened 2nd half. For a 5 minute spell or so our players seemed to realise that they are actually quite gifted at football and started knocking the ball around, maintaining possession and dictating the tempo. Then we scored th second and immediately stopped this.

It's a frustrating trait even when you win, as you can guarantee that down the line in similar games 3 points will be turned into 1 in the blink of an eye in very winnable games.

Not helping is the fact that Adebayor has gone completely off the boil, his honeymoon period lasted all of 2 games, I thought he was dire against Arsenal when you would have expected him to really turn it on and has maintained that malaise ever since. Hopefully he can bag a goal soon to get him back on track.

On the bright side, despite not playing as well as we can do, we are in a very good position in the League and Europa, have played 4 of the trickiest games for this half of the season already and are showing good form on the road, all despite a lengthy injury list. When performances do improve things should be looking rosy, BUT, the improved performances need to come soon, as these wins could soon turn to draws and defeats otherwise.
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[Monkey boy]

I don't want to be too negative after a win, but since the Liverpool game we seem to have slipped back into a lazy mentality of being happy to eek out results doing the bare minimum to get a win.

As soon as we go a goal up we sit back and hand the initiative back to the opposition, it seemed to happen 1st half yesterday (though tbf I didn't get to see the whole 1st half very well due to poor rivering) and definitely happened 2nd half. For a 5 minute spell or so our players seemed to realise that they are actually quite gifted at football and started knocking the ball around, maintaining possession and dictating the tempo. Then we scored th second and immediately stopped this.

It's a frustrating trait even when you win, as you can guarantee that down the line in similar games 3 points will be turned into 1 in the blink of an eye in very winnable games.

Not helping is the fact that Adebayor has gone completely off the boil, his honeymoon period lasted all of 2 games, I thought he was dire against Arsenal when you would have expected him to really turn it on and has maintained that malaise ever since. Hopefully he can bag a goal soon to get him back on track.

On the bright side, despite not playing as well as we can do, we are in a very good position in the League and Europa, have played 4 of the trickiest games for this half of the season already and are showing good form on the road, all despite a lengthy injury list. When performances do improve things should be looking rosy, BUT, the improved performances need to come soon, as these wins could soon turn to draws and defeats otherwise.
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Excellent post

As soon as we scored we just sat back and let them come at us. A better team would have scored. Before we scored they couldn't live with us. I don't see why we don't go for the jugular more often. The best form of our defence has to be attack.

I long for the day when we get a two goal lead going into the last 10 mins

 

[StartingPrice]

Do I settle for a porn career (4th) , or hope to fuck (run around a bit) my way to hollywood (regular CL) ? Is my seedy come shot (CL Qtrs) "as good as it gets" ?

Is a wet thursday at Stoke the equivalent of anal porn ?

Animal farm mg:mg:mg:

 

[Spurger King]

We'll never be able to compete with United on the extreme porn level. They've got Darren Felcher.

 

[bomberH]

You make some very fair points in the rest of your post.

But I don't think beating Blackburn, Wolves or Wigan was "awesome", I honestly think with players like Parker, Sandro, Bale, Modric, VDV, Adebayor, King, Kaboul we should be expecting to beat those teams shouldn't we ?

I don't mean taking it for granted, I mean rational confidence, which comes from consistent performance and belief in our method and style ?

I thought we were excellent against Wigan, and I thought Redknapp's team and tactics were fine against Newcastle. But three lightweights in a 442 midfield away at Blackburn ? The subs ?

Modric and Kranjcar in cm against ManC ? VDV rm in a 442 against Arsenal ?

Just really poorly thought out decisions IMO.



That's fair enough Bomber, and if you feel that criticism is unfair and can back up that argument then this is the place you should be.

But the "5th place and CL Qtr's is as good as it gets" bullshit doesn't wash with me and the fact that we were shit for a couple of decades doesn't hide the fact that Redknapp's own failings contributed enormously to us not getting CL football last year. Yes, 5th place is better than tenth. But 5th place, when it could and should have been 4th or even 3rd is not as good as it gets is it ?

We don't have to accept failure just because we are used to it.

Last week was the most disappointing result of the season so far for me, but I didn't turn that on Redknapp, as I didn't feel it was his fault, this is what I said last week when someone started a thread entitled "Team selection wrong vs Newcastle":

Redknapp made the right decisions personnel wise today and to say VDV doesn't work off Adebayor is plain wrong. These two have combined well now in every game and have combined to score three goals between the pair of them. How is that not working ?

Livermore, Kaboul and Bassong were never, at any time over run. In fact those three all coped varying degrees of well with what is a tough place and a very robust, physical team who the crowd can easily whip into a frenzy. They barely had any chances in that game because we were never over run.

The Bale right/Modric left thing was wrong, but Redknapp rectified that.

If we had made more intelligent use of several great positions we wouldn't be having any conversation about selection or tactics. Second half we pressed better, we got ourselves a deserved lead and were winning the battle as well. Until we let them score a goal from fuck all and get their backs up for the ast five minutes it was a decent enough performance by a decent team, set up pretty well for the occasion, which was a battle.

To be honest, I don't think the criticism levelled by some of us is unfair most of the time, and when we praise it is universally forgotten and the minute we criticise again it becomes "Harry Bashing".

I think Redknapp clearly has some good qualities and he makes some good, tough, decisions, and he clearly thinks sometimes about tactics, but I think he is not a "great" coach - evidenced by the way we have no endemic work ethic, are poorly organised at times, and players get away with not performing basic duties at times, and he his tactically limited. Being tactically limited is less important than the coaching thing, but at times it compounds the coaching thing.

But I will continue to applaud what he gets right, and criticise what he gets wrong, as I see it.



Good post, sums up how I think some of us feel.

Just quickly BC cos I'm on the iPhone and it's getting on my tits, re the 'good as it gets' stuff, I don't think Harry really believes that. It was a stubborn response to what he thought was unfair criticism. If he genuinely thought that was as good as it got, he'd have walked afterwards. He probably knows we can really challenge for 3rd and win a cup or two but as we all know, he's not the best with the media and he often gets defensive in his interviews.

For what it's worth, I don't count you as a Harry basher per se. Your reasons are generally well thought out even if I don't agree with them and I know sometimes you say certain things exaggeratedly (is that a word?) for a reaction but there's no vitriol that I've seen within your posts (Dawson aside) so its all good. The difference is I think you'd be the same even if Mourinho was in charge whereas some people here just can't accept Harry no matter what.

 

[bomberH]

I don't want to be too negative after a win, but since the Liverpool game we seem to have slipped back into a lazy mentality of being happy to eek out results doing the bare minimum to get a win.

As soon as we go a goal up we sit back and hand the initiative back to the opposition, it seemed to happen 1st half yesterday (though tbf I didn't get to see the whole 1st half very well due to poor rivering) and definitely happened 2nd half. For a 5 minute spell or so our players seemed to realise that they are actually quite gifted at football and started knocking the ball around, maintaining possession and dictating the tempo. Then we scored th second and immediately stopped this.

It's a frustrating trait even when you win, as you can guarantee that down the line in similar games 3 points will be turned into 1 in the blink of an eye in very winnable games.

Not helping is the fact that Adebayor has gone completely off the boil, his honeymoon period lasted all of 2 games, I thought he was dire against Arsenal when you would have expected him to really turn it on and has maintained that malaise ever since. Hopefully he can bag a goal soon to get him back on track.

On the bright side, despite not playing as well as we can do, we are in a very good position in the League and Europa, have played 4 of the trickiest games for this half of the season already and are showing good form on the road, all despite a lengthy injury list. When performances do improve things should be looking rosy, BUT, the improved performances need to come soon, as these wins could soon turn to draws and defeats otherwise.
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Did you repost this because it didn't get a reaction yesterday? :lol:

As it goes, I agree with this criticism more than any other. We do tend to sit back too much after we score, but I think that's probably a natural reaction to playing away from home. It would be nice to get a 2 goal lead going into the last few minutes!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't want to be too negative after a win, but since the Liverpool game we seem to have slipped back into a lazy mentality of being happy to eek out results doing the bare minimum to get a win.

As soon as we go a goal up we sit back and hand the initiative back to the opposition, it seemed to happen 1st half yesterday (though tbf I didn't get to see the whole 1st half very well due to poor rivering) and definitely happened 2nd half. For a 5 minute spell or so our players seemed to realise that they are actually quite gifted at football and started knocking the ball around, maintaining possession and dictating the tempo. Then we scored th second and immediately stopped this.

It's a frustrating trait even when you win, as you can guarantee that down the line in similar games 3 points will be turned into 1 in the blink of an eye in very winnable games.

Not helping is the fact that Adebayor has gone completely off the boil, his honeymoon period lasted all of 2 games, I thought he was dire against Arsenal when you would have expected him to really turn it on and has maintained that malaise ever since. Hopefully he can bag a goal soon to get him back on track.

On the bright side, despite not playing as well as we can do, we are in a very good position in the League and Europa, have played 4 of the trickiest games for this half of the season already and are showing good form on the road, all despite a lengthy injury list. When performances do improve things should be looking rosy, BUT, the improved performances need to come soon, as these wins could soon turn to draws and defeats otherwise.
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A couple of things re Adebayor. I think he has played through an injury (Wigan, Arsenal, Newcastle, maybe even Blackburn) and Redknapp said as much. I also think if we want to see the best of him, we must press the ball better and give him the ball in better areas with better support (Liverpool, Wigan first half) and games where we are a) set up wrong (Arsenal, Blackburn), and b) are lazy off the ball in and out of possession, will not help us get the best out of Adebayor.

If we expect him to feed off scraps and do it alone, he'll be wasted. But even on a bad day he's setting up goals and seeing more ball than Defoe or Pav put together.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Adebayor's involvement for our first goal was excellent yesterday however, he held the ball up then picked the perfect ball for Walker, overhit/underhit that just slightly and the attack breaks down. That's the quality we desire, I supported Crouchy more than anyone on here, but he just doesn't have that in his locker, that top quality. Once he'd laid in Walker he also bust a gut to get into the area, you can't underestimate his contribution to that goal, nor Walker who did everything perfectly and of course VDV with that sublime finish. Top notch football.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Adebayor's involvement for our first goal was excellent yesterday however, he held the ball up then picked the perfect ball for Walker, overhit/underhit that just slightly and the attack breaks down. That's the quality we desire, I supported Crouchy more than anyone on here, but he just doesn't have that in his locker, that top quality. Once he'd laid in Walker he also bust a gut to get into the area, you can't underestimate his contribution to that goal, nor Walker who did everything perfectly and of course VDV with that sublime finish. Top notch football.

Exactly. It's the old Berbatov/Kanoute syndrome.

 

[tRiKS]

Adebayor's involvement for our first goal was excellent yesterday however, he held the ball up then picked the perfect ball for Walker, overhit/underhit that just slightly and the attack breaks down. That's the quality we desire, I supported Crouchy more than anyone on here, but he just doesn't have that in his locker, that top quality. Once he'd laid in Walker he also bust a gut to get into the area, you can't underestimate his contribution to that goal, nor Walker who did everything perfectly and of course VDV with that sublime finish. Top notch football.

Or the second goal. threaded a ball to BAE ignoring 3 easy but predicatble options infront of him. Defoe, crouch et al wouldn't even consider looking for an over lap run by a full back when 30 yrds from goal.

 

[mike_l]

Did you repost this because it didn't get a reaction yesterday? :lol:

As it goes, I agree with this criticism more than any other. We do tend to sit back too much after we score, but I think that's probably a natural reaction to playing away from home. It would be nice to get a 2 goal lead going into the last few minutes!

Haha, yep. Also seemed relevant to the current debate.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You and BC aren't and don't come across like that mate, sloth does. You make your points with background tactical knowledge and usually start your posts written like supporters who just take more of an in depth analysis into what you want to see. I have no issue with yours and BC's posts. Sloth doesn't, he's a bandwaggon jumper-oner, and he cant hide his dislike for Redknapp, he's similar to Ashcroft in that manner. First post in the match thread yesterday told some people to 'f*ck off, we won but that was shit.' It's nonsense.

The other thing is that the same people who are saying 'Harry cant take us to the next level' were the same people who said it about the top 4.

I don't think we'll be a regular in the top 4 until we spend top 4 money.

Come on SB, there's been plenty of my posts you've said the same about. Truth is, we do not always agree on stuff, but Sloth is one of the most constructive, analytical, articulate and informative posters around. We all get a bit fucked off from time to time and fail to apply the polite, reasoned repost, but even in this thread Sloth has qualified his remarks.

I've been slaughtered for saying similar things plenty of times. Like the last three times we've beaten Arsenal.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Come on SB, there's been plenty of my posts you've said the same about. Truth is, we do not always agree on stuff, but Sloth is one of the most constructive, analytical, articulate and informative posters around. We all get a bit fucked off from time to time and fail to apply the polite, reasoned repost, but even in this thread Sloth has qualified his remarks.

I've been slaughtered for saying similar things plenty of times. Like the last three times we've beaten Arsenal.

Not in the same way. When people accept that you're just a miserable and angry old fucker your posts are actually very tolerable. If I've ever accused you of not being a fan then I take that back.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Come on SB, there's been plenty of my posts you've said the same about. Truth is, we do not always agree on stuff, but Sloth is one of the most constructive, analytical, articulate and informative posters around. We all get a bit fucked off from time to time and fail to apply the polite, reasoned repost, but even in this thread Sloth has qualified his remarks.

I've been slaughtered for saying similar things plenty of times. Like the last three times we've beaten Arsenal.

To be fair BC, and I think I agree with you more than I disagree with you (if I don't voice it it's only because I generally don't feel the need to voice agreement as I'm an argumentative prick by nature) Harry must be doing something right against Arsenal when our record against them under his guidance has been as good as it has been.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

To be fair BC, and I think I agree with you more than I disagree with you (if I don't voice it it's only because I generally don't feel the need to voice agreement as I'm an argumentative prick by nature) Harry must be doing something right against Arsenal when our record against them under his guidance has been as good as it has been.

I don't want to get side tracked into another debate over old ground but I haven't been impressed with any of the games we won against Arsenal, and believe they all owed more to luck than judgement. Maybe you could at best argue that our spirit has improved under Redknapp, and that has helped us over come being completely outplayed by them. But on no other level could I say we have deserved to beat them in any of those three games based on footballing criteria such as skill, flair, movement, work rate or just actually playing better football.

I was more impressed with the first game at WHL under Redknapp which we drew 0-0, even though, even then they went down to ten men for about 60 minutes. At least we worked our nuts off and thoroughly outplayed them.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

You're right, let's not get sidetracked by that argument which has been had umpteen thousand times already :lol:

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't want to get side tracked into another debate over old ground but I haven't been impressed with any of the games we won against Arsenal, and believe they all owed more to luck than judgement. Maybe you could at best argue that our spirit has improved under Redknapp, and that has helped us over come being completely outplayed by them. But on no other level could I say we have deserved to beat them in any of those three games based on footballing criteria such as skill, flair, movement, work rate or just actually playing better football.

I was more impressed with the first game at WHL under Redknapp which we drew 0-0, even though, even then they went down to ten men for about 60 minutes. At least we worked our nuts off and thoroughly outplayed them.

Yes, BC, it is an oft-tread path...but tell me, at exactly which point would you consider ameliorating your opinion? When we go from being unable to buy a win against them in the league for thriteen centuries, to being unbeaten against them in the league for three years, five years, twenty-seven and a half years :shrug: At which point exactly will you reverse your initial match we were a bit lucky there, us to something a bit more in line with what...:think:...less exacting individuals conclude :shrug:

Just asking