Match Threads Fulham vs Spurs

The Apprentice · Mar 17, 2024

Poor across the park.

But the severe lack of tracking back from our front four, directly contributed to at least four glaring chances. Johnson and Kulu in particular.

Wake up call
For Ange.

Mr Pink · Mar 17, 2024

rossdapep said:
<

United hardly in a position to talk though are they

Of course they arent, but this is why we're never taken too seriously.

We've never had that elite winning mentality.

And you build that mentality by being consisent with your application and atttitude.

Yes the players are ultimately to blame, but Agne is accountable as well.

These slow starts are a real problem. Its difficult just to flick a switch mid way through a game when youve allowed yourselves to be second best all over up to that point.

And Ive a sneaky feeling had Villa not played on the thursday evening that game would of been very different.

What was massively disappointing for me yesterday, thers was no one appearing to gee us up a bit and move us up a gear.

Not one player, the manager or coaching staff. And that points to an issue with mentality imo.

The apologies after are pointless. We should of been fully prepared with a full weeks preparatiion.

Its like we dont even discuss the opposition in terms of preparation.

Styopa · Mar 17, 2024

Mr Pink said:
Of course they arent, but this is why we're never taken too seriously.

We've never had that elite winning mentality.

And you build that mentality by being consisent with your application and atttitude.

Yes the players are ultimately to blame, but Agne is accountable as well.

These slow starts are a real problem. Its difficult just to flick a switch mid way through a game when youve allowed yourselves to be second best all over up to that point.

And Ive a sneaky feeling had Villa not played on the thursday evening that game would of been very different.

What was massively disappointing for me yesterday, thers was no one appearing to gee us up a bit and move us up a gear.

Not one player, the manager or coaching staff. And that points to an issue with mentality imo.

The apologies after our pointless. We should of been fully prepared with a full weeks preparatiion.

It’s like we dont even discuss the opposition in terms of preparation.

I agree there is a mentality issue. But I think you create that through being consistent like we did under Poch. You just have to work at it until it becomes a kind of habit and culture at the club.

I don’t think there is any other way to do it. We tried to “import” that elite mentality with coaches like Mourinho and Conte but I don’t think it’s something you can instil in just a couple of seasons. Not without loads of money to spend anyway.

Ultimately I think it’s a situation where you have to roll up your sleeves and accept this ain’t going to be pretty all of the time, but we’re going to stick with it and see it through. Then in two or three years time you start seeing the results of that commitment.

One of the issues with us now is we have drifted for the last 5 years. It’s been a revolving door of managers and coaches- this will be our first season since Poch where we have a single manager complete a full season. You can’t realistically build anything like that when you’re chopping and changing every season.

I think it’s the same with United to be honest - no plan or vision, just get in the next guy as if he will be able to magically solve all of the club’s problems. No wonder there’s no elite mentality when the players all know this guy will probably be sacked soon anyway.

Mr Pink · Mar 17, 2024

Styopa said:
I agree there is a mentality issue. But I think you create that through being consistent like we did under Poch. You just have to work at it until it becomes a kind of habit and culture at the club.

I don’t think there is any other way to do it. We tried to “import” that elite mentality with coaches like Mourinho and Conte but I don’t think it’s something you can instil in just a couple of seasons. Not without loads of money to spend anyway.

Ultimately I think it’s a situation where you have to roll up your sleeves and accept this ain’t going to be pretty all of the time, but we’re going to stick with it and see it through. Then in two or three years time you start seeing the results of that commitment.

One of the issues with us now is we have drifted for the last 5 years. It’s been a revolving door of managers and coaches- this will be our first season since Poch where we have a single manager complete a full season. You can’t realistically build anything like that when you’re chopping and changing every season.

I think it’s the same with United to be honest - no plan or vision, just get in the next guy as if he will be able to magically solve all of the club’s problems. No wonder there’s no elite mentality when the players all know this guy will probably be sacked soon anyway.

Agree.

Look we're doing really well with Agne and we need to be patient.

But a lot of us feared this would hqppen against Fulham.

The difference was they wanted it more and thats always tough to accept.

For me, our preparation should of centred around not allowing our intensity to drop.

Bissouma's sloppiness early doors just set the tone unfortunately and we never really got to grips with them after that

Styopa · Mar 17, 2024

Mr Pink said:
Agree.

Look we're doing really well with Agne and we need to be patient.

But a lot of us feared this would hqppen against Fulham.

The difference was they wanted it more and thats always tough to accept.

For me, our preparation should of centred around not allowing our intensity to drop.

Bissouma's sloppiness early doors just set the tone unfortunately and we never really got to grips with them after that

Yeah agree. We had a week to prepare, we were flying after a great result last week, and we have players more than capable of rivalling Fulham in terms of talent and ability. We should be doing much better than we did.

We need to take into account the fact Fulham are a good team and have had many good results this season. But I completely agree about us being sloppy and not turning up. Something was wrong and we need to fix that.

Archibald&Crooks · Mar 17, 2024

I see some people are saying they'd rather not qualify for the CL.

So this so called weak mentality isn't just confined to the players.

Doctor Dinkey · Mar 17, 2024

Archibald&Crooks said:
I see some people are saying they'd rather not qualify for the CL.

I see this so called weak mentality isn't just confined to the players.

That's not weak mentality. I think we'd be better off entering a competition we could genuinely win- no drop down from CL next year- than scraping into one we don't have the depth or quality to perform well in. If it's all about the long game then surely easing ourselves into international competition, and maybe even winning a cup, is better for us long term.

Shanks · Mar 17, 2024

Will bw fine, no doubrs, probably one of pur worst displays, but we just move on now.

Archibald&Crooks · Mar 17, 2024

Doctor Dinkey said:
That's not weak mentality. I think we'd be better off entering a competition we could genuinely win- no drop down from CL next year- than scraping into one we don't have the depth or quality to perform well in. If it's all about the long game then surely easing ourselves into international competition, and maybe even winning a cup, is better for us long term.

I think it is. Massively. No matter how you want to square it.

If having a 'genuine' chance to win a cup is prerequisite for being in it we may as well all not bother.

NEVILLEB · Mar 17, 2024

The Apprentice said:
Poor across the park.

But the severe lack of tracking back from our front four, directly contributed to at least four glaring chances. Johnson and Kulu in particular.

Wake up call
For Ange.

Why are we playing a front 4.

Surely we need more control in the midfield.

worcestersauce · Mar 17, 2024

Our full backs were forced to defend by Fulham exploiting the space wide and constantly switching play so they were unable to play the inverted roll properly and so unable to bolster the midfield.
That said I still say we need a striker.

Styopa · Mar 17, 2024

Archibald&Crooks said:
If having a 'genuine' chance to win a cup is prerequisite for being in it we may as well all not bother.

Especially since we tend to perform better or at least as well in the Champions League as we do in the lower European competitions.

I don’t think we’ve ever gone beyond the quarter finals in the Europa League/equivalent even though we have regularly qualified for Europe during the last twenty years. Usually we go out even before the quarters. And not just to teams who have dropped out of the CL.

I understand the idea that we should do better in a weaker competition but we don’t and we all know the reasons why. It genuinely perplexes me when people start talking about us being better off in the Europa because we have more chance of winning it.

Monkey boy · Mar 17, 2024

Archibald&Crooks said:
I see some people are saying they'd rather not qualify for the CL.

So this so called weak mentality isn't just confined to the players.

for me whilst the preference would be CL id be more than happy to go with EL as I would hope that we could give serious game time to youth and fringe players and even try out new formations etc. whilst still having a genuine chance of winning the thing. If you offered me the choice of winning the EL or having a good run in the CL then there’s only one option.

that being said this needs Ange to take things a whole lot more serious than his predecessors

PaulM · Mar 17, 2024

Monkey boy said:
for me whilst the preference would be CL id be more than happy to go with EL as I would hope that we could give serious game time to youth and fringe players and even try out new formations etc. whilst still having a genuine chance of winning the thing. If you offered me the choice of winning the EL or having a good run in the CL then there’s only one option.

that being said this needs Ange to take things a whole lot more serious than his predecessors

His predecessors have done exactly what you suggest (give youth a chance and experiment) and that’s part of the reason why we’ve never performed well in those competitions.

PaulM · Mar 17, 2024

rossdapep said:
Ange "If we finish 5th, and I think we've got a team to challenge next year, I won't be disappointed"

This!

If we are to achieve something, we have to play the long game

I love Ange and am behind him but this statement is absolute bollocks in my view. And the problem with it is that it allows the club and the manager a subjective out if we don’t get CL football.

What he’s saying is “if I think I’ve got a team to challenge next season and we finish 5th instead of 4th, I’ll be happy.”

CL football isn’t the be all and end all for me. I said from the start that top 6 would be a good season and stick by that. Top 4 would be amazing.

But, at the end of the day, while a lot of what Ange says about having a single season in the CL is right, you cannot spin that finishing 5th might be better than finishing 4th. Allowing a manager to spin things that way is a very, very dangerous precedent to set IMO.

Football management is about outcomes and managers get judged on them - not on subjective, potentially self serving judgements about where the manager believes we are.

Monkey boy · Mar 17, 2024

PaulM said:
His predecessors have done exactly what you suggest (give youth a chance and experiment) and that’s part of the reason why we’ve never performed well in those competitions.

not at all, previous managers have made whole sale changes of all 11 players which then lead to disjointed performances. My hope that Ange would make 3 or 4 changes to keep the intensity but also change the mentality that this competition matters and is not beneath them which I feel others have done.

that said, given what Ange did in the league cup I’m not filled with confidence that this would be his MO

Styopa · Mar 17, 2024

PaulM said:
His predecessors have done exactly what you suggest (give youth a chance and experiment) and that’s part of the reason why we’ve never performed well in those competitions.

It feels like this is another myth about the Europa: it gives us a chance to develop the youth players. It’s good that it gives other players a chance, even though it means we’re hardly ever properly competitive in it it, but I’m struggling to think of many players who we developed through Europa game time. Everyone says Kane but he was a generational talent.

Ruffinthepuffin · Mar 17, 2024

Archibald&Crooks said:
I see some people are saying they'd rather not qualify for the CL.

So this so called weak mentality isn't just confined to the players.

Completely agree.

Johnny J · Mar 17, 2024

Archibald&Crooks said:
I see some people are saying they'd rather not qualify for the CL.

So this so called weak mentality isn't just confined to the players.

Just to clarify, I wouldn't rather we didn't qualify for CL. I'd rather we did. I just meant that if we don't but we're in a position to challenge next year for trophies, as Ange said, then I wouldn't be disappointed.

Styopa · Mar 17, 2024

PaulM said:
I love Ange and am behind him but this statement is absolute bollocks in my view. And the problem with it is that it allows the club and the manager a subjective out if we don’t get CL football.

What he’s saying is “if I think I’ve got a team to challenge next season and we finish 5th instead of 4th, I’ll be happy.”

CL football isn’t the be all and end all for me. I said from the start that top 6 would be a good season and stick by that. Top 4 would be amazing.

But, at the end of the day, while a lot of what Ange says about having a single season in the CL is right, you cannot spin that finishing 5th might be better than finishing 4th. Allowing a manager to spin things that way is a very, very dangerous precedent to set IMO.

Football management is about outcomes and managers get judged on them - not on subjective, potentially self serving judgements about where the manager believes we are.

I agree that we want to finish as high as possible, always, but I don’t think fourth should have any special status if fifth also qualifies for the Champions League. Fourth is better than fifth for sure but then third is also better than fourth. We tend to reify fourth because we associate it with that Champions League spot.

For me the most important thing is to keep on improving and there are different ways to measure that. For example, I think in hindsight Arsenal were on a better trajectory than us even though they lost out on the Champions League spot to us. We all had a great laugh at their expense then but they were playing a different game to us.

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