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dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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I really don’t get the negativity tbh. I also don’t believe Doherty out was a cock up, if it was a cock up I reckon we would have just held tight until the summer. Seems like we basically did a zero pound termination which is a result for a 31YO with 18mths on his contract who will struggle to get on the bench.

We’ve replaced our biggest problem position and got required cover up top. We haven’t signed a top CB but if the right player isn’t available then they’re not available and it’s right to wait until summer. The only rival who has had a better window than us is Chelsea IMO.

God knows the reaction if we’d signed Jack Butland, Weghorst and Sabitzer (to replace Eriksen out until Jan)…

I am still ENIC out btw.
I agree, even Alasdair Gold's article basically says they realized it while they were doing the loan deal that they had too many out so they switched it to a release. It's not a big deal what-so-ever.

We signed him for 13.4mil and he's only gotten older & slower. For me it's good on us not holding him ransom hoping for a measly fee in the Summer.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,759
16,916
No gets fired for mistakes. I've worked in industries bigger where mistakes far worst than this have been made. People don't get fired.
That's great, but I've worked in places (in the UK) where people have been fired for far less. Also there's the Alan Sugar "you're fired" and then there's the British corporate way of doing it, which is effectively the same thing but done more subtly.

Not understanding the basic rules of the businesses you working in and then causing a mistake that costs your business millions of pounds in lost income is gross negligence, not a mistake. I'm not saying that's what happened as frankly none of us truly know, but if that is what happened then it should result in some proper disciplinary action.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,540
147,631
I really don’t get the negativity tbh. I also don’t believe Doherty out was a cock up, if it was a cock up I reckon we would have just held tight until the summer. Seems like we basically did a zero pound termination which is a result for a 31YO with 18mths on his contract who will struggle to get on the bench.

We’ve replaced our biggest problem position and got required cover up top. We haven’t signed a top CB but if the right player isn’t available then they’re not available and it’s right to wait until summer. The only rival who has had a better window than us is Chelsea IMO.

God knows the reaction if we’d signed Jack Butland, Weghorst and Sabitzer (to replace Eriksen out until Jan)…

I am still ENIC out btw.
It’s moaning for the sake of moaning.
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
11,434
30,184
It’s moaning for the sake of moaning.
Its not though, that misses the point and gives levy & Paratici a free pass.
We "tried" for a CB in summer and missed out on a proper one but got lenglet and now missed out again in winter. So a critical position Conte wants an upgrade in we have failed to sign someone of a suitable level.
Danjuma was an opportunistic signing that fell into our lap so our only planned purchase was Porro which we did on last day of window so he missed all of January's league games. We failed in every other area they were identifying.

Fans are right to frustrated at how we operate
 

JamieSpursCommunityUser

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
1,931
10,187
Releasing Doherty to get Porro makes perfect sense in a vacuum. I'm glad we did it.

The point isn't what decisions we're forced into now.

The point is the interference that prevents good strategic planning and forces us into these bad choices.

Last summer, a serious club does the following:

1. Sell Doherty for whatever you can get.

2. Spend c£40m on a starting RWB.

3. Either sell Emerson for whatever we can get, or don't buy Spence if we can't afford it.

4. Taken a hit on at least one of our loan army - Winks say - so we're not creating big problems for future windows. Next summer needs to be 8-9 out, and 6-7 in. Unlikely.

5. Not further de-stabilise the rebuild with your manager, and help to keep your generational star player.


The way Levy tried to address the RWB position on the cheap, for example, has ended up costing us much more money and points, which will then cost us much more money.

As will replacing Conte (more player turnover if we reactively hire a coach who moves away from Wing Backs) and Kane (£100m+ replacement). Possible it may have happened anyway, but this avoidable situation hasn't helped.
 

Thenewcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
3,039
10,499
Best we can hope for this summer under ENIC is:

- Replacing Lenglet with Hincapie or other left sided option
- Keeper to replace Lloris
- Danjuma made permanent or other forward for similar fee
- A young prospect in the Sarr / Udogie mould likely in some irrelevant position
- Maybe one of Sanchez, Tanganga, Davies, Emerson, Reguilon, Gil, Lo Celso, Rodon, Sessegnon, Ndombele and Winks sold

In an ideal to world i'd add to the above by upgrading on Dier and or Sanchez but it won't happen.

It's never gonna be better than a 6 or 7 out of ten.
I get the overall point but would counter a little by saying:

1). I’d rate that window higher than 7 out of 10 if it happened… if we keep Harry (if not we have a whole different problem) and assuming only one out is a little pessimistic. Our starting XI would be pretty damn good with pretty good cover in most positions.
2). I don’t know what an ‘irrelevant position’ is :). I love us making udogie/Sarr type signings and would like to see at least one every window. The peak Poch side had 4 young players we bought cheaply (Walker, Dier, Rose, Dele) and it’s a great way to supplement our own youth policy

I think our last few windows have been better than people think on the ins (less said about the outs the better). We’ve added 6 really important players in 12 months (Kulu, Bentancur, Richy, Perisic, Bissouma and Porro) with others still having promise (Udogie, danjuma). That’s half a team replaced/upgraded. Get 3 high quality first team options in the summer plus a couple of younger options and sort some of the outs and things will look pretty good. Do I trust Levy to do that? No, but it’s possible. The issue will be if Harry and Conte go - then we won’t achieve the above and I don’t trust levy to pick a manager at all
 

zepstar

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2005
607
1,009
Announcing a Beyonce concert at the stadium the day after the club fails to invest into the team properly is, urm, bold.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,540
147,631
Its not though, that misses the point and gives levy & Paratici a free pass.
We "tried" for a CB in summer and missed out on a proper one but got lenglet and now missed out again in winter. So a critical position Conte wants an upgrade in we have failed to sign someone of a suitable level.
Danjuma was an opportunistic signing that fell into our lap so our only planned purchase was Porro which we did on last day of window so he missed all of January's league games. We failed in every other area they were identifying.

Fans are right to frustrated at how we operate
I’m specifically on about the Doherty situation. Which is very much just moaning for the sake of moaning. The majority of fans wanted him gone, and the majority were worried he’d be coming back in June giving us another player to shift then and yet another headache. He’s been released. It’s freed up space. That’s a good thing.
 

heinsmit

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2013
821
3,975
Announcing a Beyonce concert at the stadium the day after the club fails to invest into the team properly is, urm, bold.
I really don't think this makes a blind bit of difference to most people. It was the same with the guy yesterday complaining that they quoted Kim Kardashian in the Porro announcement - no one cares. They care about signings (or lack of)
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,540
147,631
Announcing a Beyonce concert at the stadium the day after the club fails to invest into the team properly is, urm, bold.
Yeah I’m sure Beyoncé wouldn’t have minded putting it off until the Levy out stuff dies down ?
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,936
3,888
Announcing a Beyonce concert at the stadium the day after the club fails to invest into the team properly is, urm, bold.
Yeah, let me just ask Beyonce to hold off announcing it while we process the transfer window (I get that the above was a jk, I'm running with it).
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
I get the overall point but would counter a little by saying:

1). I’d rate that window higher than 7 out of 10 if it happened… if we keep Harry (if not we have a whole different problem) and assuming only one out is a little pessimistic. Our starting XI would be pretty damn good with pretty good cover in most positions.
2). I don’t know what an ‘irrelevant position’ is :). I love us making udogie/Sarr type signings and would like to see at least one every window. The peak Poch side had 4 young players we bought cheaply (Walker, Dier, Rose, Dele) and it’s a great way to supplement our own youth policy

I think our last few windows have been better than people think on the ins (less said about the outs the better). We’ve added 6 really important players in 12 months (Kulu, Bentancur, Richy, Perisic, Bissouma and Porro) with others still having promise (Udogie, danjuma). That’s half a team replaced/upgraded. Get 3 high quality first team options in the summer plus a couple of younger options and sort some of the outs and things will look pretty good. Do I trust Levy to do that? No, but it’s possible. The issue will be if Harry and Conte go - then we won’t achieve the above and I don’t trust levy to pick a manager at all
Yeah those types of signings are great and can be the lifeblood of a team like us that's one step below the top echelon of mega money clubs.

Thing is, when we used to sign those players they actually had a route to the first team. Bale, Dele, Walker and Dier were all signed in areas we needed to strengthen and had a route into the first team. Or were signed under managers willing to actually use youth players.

The next wave of those types of players were largely signed in awkward positions without clear routes to first team football. Sessegnon wasn't suited to a back 4, Gil had Son and Bergwijn ahead of him on his favoured left side, Rodon and Spence weren't trusted and some like Clarke simply weren't good enough.

At least with Udogie and Sarr we've signed players in positions where we need depth and there's a path to first team football. Plus they're genuinely top-rated talents that were fought over by multiple clubs rather than hopeful punts brought in as cheap alternatives to players the manager actually wanted. When we signed Bale and Alli they were seen as genuine coups, whereas nobody at all was competing with us for the likes of Rodon or Clarke. I think it's pretty clear why...
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,498
38,620
I suppose if you're a glass half full person then where we have gone after, and acquired, a ready-to-go first team player under Conte/FP they genuinely have been upgrades, and successful ones. However it is stark just how far we have to go, and at the pace of one, maybe two, upgrades per window we will not have succeeded before the first tranche are eyeing their contract end date and wondering whether sunny Spain or rainy Manchester might be a better fit.

We seem to be in a perfect storm of being out-spent by our 'top-six' rivals, and out-thought by the up and coming clubs like Brighton. This isn't terminal, but we need to decide what type of club we are and stick to it over a 10 year period.

And it's going to take a couple of totally out-of-character transfer windows just to catch up with the curve, let alone get ahead of it (all while fighting fires throughout the management levels within the club).
That is something I was thinking about yesterday. Will we ever get to the point where there aren't holes in the squad?
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,678
78,546
Announcing Beyonce is clearly a cryptic. We've now completed the right side with Porro joining forces with Kulusevski and Romero. Next summer our attention switches to the left to the left.
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
That is something I was thinking about yesterday. Will we ever get to the point where there aren't holes in the squad?
If we can keep up our recent hit rate I think we'll get there eventually. We've gone from about 1 in 10 signings being a genuine success (think Hojbjerg is the only current first teamer we signed between 2017-2021) to about 2 in 3 since Paratici came in. Couple more years of that and we'll be in a much better place.

If we bring in a manager with a totally different style then all bets are off and we might never fill all the holes as the cycle will start again.
 
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