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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 20th August

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fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

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Nov 15, 2018
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Hercules said:
Stop blaming Josè for not getting best out of him, or trying to. TN has a rank stinking attitude! I see doom. Getting RID is only option. DL has he work cut out here, and you cannot blame him at all.
Click to expand...
Just seen this post as I wrote a more lengthy reply above meanwhile but as I've said this is actually very pleasing to hear because Jose being the issue would be a far bigger issue for us than TN being the issue. The fact he was such an expensive signing makes things tricky but in football at the top level there are usually takers for most players unless they have an insane injury record so if his playacting has been OTT which it has seemed and he's got no underlying actual injury issues just more attitude and effort issues then I'm sure someone will stump up some cash for him its just if it will be enough for Levy to cut his losses, but Levy isn't stupid and will be trying to do the best for Jose and he will know that selling TN for a half decent price would mean we can get in an extra 2 players and if we signed say 6 players instead of 4 that could be the difference between coming 3rd and winning the EL vs coming 5th and no trophy, lets hope the stars align and that Barca or Inter or whoever take a punt on 'rescuing' TN and ideally asap so we have time left in the window to spend the funds.

I can't see him being sold as just don't think there will be enough takers at the price DL wants and then we will be stuck with another unhappy player all season just like with Erisken, lets hope that isn't the case and that firstly there are some bids and 2nd that Levy has learnt his lesson about keeping players who don't want to be here for too long.
 
ShayLaB

ShayLaB

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Dec 8, 2006
1,510
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Surely TN must also realise that getting out will be a damn sight easier if he can turn in some stellar performances between now and Oct 5th.
 
doctor stefan Freud

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
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There seems little point creating an emotional space in your consciousness where TN is somehow a victim of Mourinho’s ruthless pragmatism. We’ve heard this from so many sources that he’s a lazy bastard who’s surrounded himself with a disruptive entourage. Pre-Mourinho he was hardly consistent, nor has he been all season. When all the evidence you can possible find points to him being at fault, then it’s probably true.

Ignoring this is like being in a relationship with a profoundly attractive person, and even though you catch them in the arms of someone else, you make lame excuses because the potential of what you’d like the relationship to be is far more attractive than the gritty, shitty truth
 
SpursSince1980

SpursSince1980

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Jan 23, 2011
4,755
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Hercules said:
Stop blaming Josè for not getting best out of him, or trying to. TN has a rank stinking attitude! I see doom. Getting RID is only option. DL has he work cut out here, and you cannot blame him at all.
Click to expand...
On the contrary... everyone with the exception of Jose, within the club hierarchy, are culpable for this snafu. As this situation with the player’s attitude is something that should have been flagged through good scouting. How was this missed? Or, does all the blame get shifted to Poch for pushing hard for this player? Regardless, it’s a pretty epic mistake.
 
slartibartfast

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
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doctor stefan Freud said:
There seems little point creating an emotional space in your consciousness where TN is somehow a victim of Mourinho’s ruthless pragmatism. We’ve heard this from so many sources that he’s a lazy bastard who’s surrounded himself with a disruptive entourage. Pre-Mourinho he was hardly consistent, nor has he been all season. When all the evidence you can possible find points to him being at fault, then it’s probably true.

Ignoring this is like being in a relationship with a profoundly attractive person, and even though you catch them in the arms of someone else, you make lame excuses because the potential of what you’d like the relationship to be is far more attractive than the gritty, shitty truth
Click to expand...
Someone hurt you didnt they lol.
 
GetKaned

GetKaned

COYS
Aug 19, 2017
858
4,101
For 65mn, we could get an excellent RB and a capable understudy to Kane. If Levy manages to even get 50mn for him, he will be probably getting a statue in front of Harvard Business School.


We will not be "losing" much creativity, with Ndombele never supplying it consistently to be a focal point of our tactics. Its a shame what happened to him, but next season, we aren't getting a quarter of his value recouped. There was an ITK early this window about loan deals being a big thing and I hope we get some deal out of it.

That being said, I would love to get Skriniar and/or may be a deal for Coutinho done even if we are to lose Ndombele permanently.
 
DanNolan

DanNolan

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2006
1,369
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To keep this relevant to the ITK discussion, the point is that following the Ndombele news it seems that yes Jose may get rid of a player who could be a world class talent in the future. The worrying view from past mourinho managed fans would be like the below:

Selling Ndombele fits very much in the short termism in Jose reigns. Yes i agree at present Tungay hasnt been up to it attitude wise (only managed him for 9 months), and squad wise yes he wants to transform them into winners and all that comes with that. To do this it requires everyone to be on the same page mentally all of the time... once you don't win anything using this philosophy it means the payers lose all faith quickly and then the manager loses the dressing room. Mourinho at chelsea, inter and porto... hadnt "failed before so players believed in this mentality. If it fails you are then left with a team of players who are "winners" that haven't won anything and have sacrificed quality and potential for mentality. A new manager inherits a team of "winners" with less talent and has to mould a new squad with some players with potential to give hope.

Short termism is opposite to Levy transfer philosophy so I'd guess hes at a crossroads right now? I support Mourinho and feel we do need a few winners in the squad and to balance squad with full backs and a sub striker. Ill reserve judgement till after the window but Hercs info that we wont spend even 30m on a player says to me that selling any of our "assets" will be a backwards step. We wont buy a player in this window for under 30m that is going to improve us immediately and also improve in future..
 
carmeldevil

carmeldevil

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
7,684
46,042
Hercules said:
Stop blaming Josè for not getting best out of him, or trying to. TN has a rank stinking attitude! I see doom. Getting RID is only option. DL has he work cut out here, and you cannot blame him at all.
Click to expand...

shh. Let’s all pretend TN is a world class player so we can sellhim quicker.
 
A

Albertbarich

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Jul 4, 2020
5,238
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Really struggling seeing the scum make serious investments and their fans seem convinced partey and more are coming as we get a stream of social media proclaiming southamptons third choice midfielder and Joe Hart are somehow exciting signings.

I think both are sensible signings but I want to see some ambition. We never seem to show much of that.

Of course we need to see how the window ends but this talk of one out and one in is depressingly familiar . Virus or no virus we have been here before. Yes I get things have been crazy but we either want to keep up and challenge those around us or we don't.

Its why I dont really want to give levy any money, its like he doesn't even hide the lack of ambition.

Hope for once im proven wrong.
 
JKendall13

JKendall13

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Jul 2, 2012
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I generally really hate the “bad attitude” narrative as I think it’s generally more an excuse than reality. Especially when it relates to black players.

But just look at the record with TN. He made his debut against Juve, assisted on his first touch, and then could barely make it up and down the pitch for the remaining 30 minutes. And it never improved after that! He’s one of the least fit players I’ve ever seen at this club and he really only has himself to blame. It’s apparent to anyone who watches him play.

Plus, the advantage of selling him is that it allows us to go for a big name this summer that Mourinho might like. Maybe Sabitzer.
 
spursfan77

spursfan77

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Aug 13, 2005
46,687
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Personally I don’t care for a player like him but in terms of our transfer window it is the worst news possible. If Levy wants his money back it means it will drag out for the whole window because nobody will pay it now or probably at all. That’s going to hamper other incoming transfers. It needs to be sorted quick and I suspect it is why he’s been linked away for the last month. There’s no smoke without fire.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,215
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Albertbarich said:
Really struggling seeing the scum make serious investments and their fans seem convinced partey and more are coming as we get a stream of social media proclaiming southamptons third choice midfielder and Joe Hart are somehow exciting signings.

I think both are sensible signings but I want to see some ambition. We never seem to show much of that.

Of course we need to see how the window ends but this talk of one out and one in is depressingly familiar . Virus or no virus we have been here before. Yes I get things have been crazy but we either want to keep up and challenge those around us or we don't.

Its why I dont really want to give levy any money, its like he doesn't even hide the lack of ambition.

Hope for once im proven wrong.
Click to expand...

Their third choice, he was their captain ?
 
hutchiniho

hutchiniho

Top Cat
Mar 19, 2006
4,702
5,958
DanNolan said:
To keep this relevant to the ITK discussion, the point is that following the Ndombele news it seems that yes Jose may get rid of a player who could be a world class talent in the future. The worrying view from past mourinho managed fans would be like the below:

Selling Ndombele fits very much in the short termism in Jose reigns. Yes i agree at present Tungay hasnt been up to it attitude wise (only managed him for 9 months), and squad wise yes he wants to transform them into winners and all that comes with that. To do this it requires everyone to be on the same page mentally all of the time... once you don't win anything using this philosophy it means the payers lose all faith quickly and then the manager loses the dressing room. Mourinho at chelsea, inter and porto... hadnt "failed before so players believed in this mentality. If it fails you are then left with a team of players who are "winners" that haven't won anything and have sacrificed quality and potential for mentality. A new manager inherits a team of "winners" with less talent and has to mould a new squad with some players with potential to give hope.

Short termism is opposite to Levy transfer philosophy so I'd guess hes at a crossroads right now? I support Mourinho and feel we do need a few winners in the squad and to balance squad with full backs and a sub striker. Ill reserve judgement till after the window but Hercs info that we wont spend even 30m on a player says to me that selling any of our "assets" will be a backwards step. We wont buy a player in this window for under 30m that is going to improve us immediately and also improve in future..
Click to expand...

less than £30m bought us Hojbjerg. He 100% improves us immediately.
Any quality right back (Most likely around £20m) will improve the 1st team massively.
TN and tbh most of our record fee signings in recent Prem history shows that big bucks doesn’t always equal success in the pitch.
I would much prefer Jose to specifically address the problem areas in the first team and the squad even if that meant pure short termism.
I do think however in our current position, this is exactly what we need. 17/19 year olds for the future aren’t going to help the bottom line in whatever time frame you choose when compared to Jose maintaining our European status.

Also tHe original ITK did say that it would be £30m or less unless we sell TN, which would free up other money.
 
A

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,238
19,891
hutchiniho said:
less than £30m bought us Hojbjerg. He 100% improves us immediately.
Any quality right back (Most likely around £20m) will improve the 1st team massively.
TN and tbh most of our record fee signings in recent Prem history shows that big bucks doesn’t always equal success in the pitch.
I would much prefer Jose to specifically address the problem areas in the first team and the squad even if that meant pure short termism.
I do think however in our current position, this is exactly what we need. 17/19 year olds for the future aren’t going to help the bottom line in whatever time frame you choose when compared to Jose maintaining our European status.

Also tHe original ITK did say that it would be £30m or less unless we sell TN, which would free up other money.
Click to expand...

I agree in regards to the right back, I'd also like a new left back but that doesn't seem likely at all.
 
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