Player Watch: Gedson Fernandes

davidmatzdorf · Jan 15, 2020

SirHarryHotspur said:
At least he looks lean , fit and ready to go.

Wheeler Dealer said:
Ideally, we need a younger version of Dembele..

To me, he looks as if he needs a lot more upper body strength to thrive in the Premiership.

Based on a few compilation videos, he has considerable dribbling skill and a fair turn of pace, but he's nothing like Dembélé (no one is..). His build is narrow and what they used to call ectomorphic.

I'm often the one who goes on about most players needing a season to get used to English football, but he looks to me like someone who will need a major adjustment. Hope I'm wrong and he slots in seamlessly.

davidmatzdorf · Jan 15, 2020

Misfit said:
Judging by how the summer ones have got on, we won't see him until next season and only then for 2 minute cameos at the end of games.

On the face of it, that would seem likely. It's what happens with players who have never played in England. But he's a loan signing and there's only so much Mourinho can find out about him by watching him in training.

swarvsta · Jan 15, 2020

davidmatzdorf said:
To me, he looks as if he needs a lot more upper body strength to thrive in the Premiership.

Based on a few compilation videos, he has considerable dribbling skill and a fair turn of pace, but he's nothing like Dembélé (no one is..). His build is narrow and what they used to call ectomorphic.

I'm often the one who goes on about most players needing a season to get used to English football, but he looks to me like someone who will need a major adjustment. Hope I'm wrong and he slots in seamlessly.

Do you really think that ‘upper body strength’ is a key attribute for the modern Premier League?

I would have agreed with you 5+ years ago but I think physical strength is less important now than ever. We are moving towards a game where almost all contact is deemed to be a foul. Even in my Sunday league we get pulled up for even putting our arms across an opponent.

I don’t think it will be a major issue for GF.

davidmatzdorf · Jan 15, 2020

whitelightwhiteheat said:
Dembele's size and strength made him absolutely unique, but he was also graceful. He could glide passed opposition players like they weren't there. I see no signs of Ndombele doing any of that.

Ndombele has his strengths, and he will be a fine player in his own right, but I don't think it would do him any favours to compare him to Dembele, because he falls short of that standard purely because Dembele is an untouchable freak of nature.

It is increasingly clear to me that people grossly underestimate the importance of Dembélé to our 2-3 best seasons. If one judges by goals, assists and magic moments near the goal, one is bound to miss what he brought to the team.

No one could dispossess him. His ball control was exquisite. He would take 2-3 opponents out of play, sometimes physically hanging off him, so that his "sideways pass" could turn into a layoff to a player in a hectare of space. When people would complain that he "passed sideways", they would systematically ignore the fact that he passed sideways 20-25m upfield from where he had collected the ball, because he had dribbled it out of defence and rumbled through half the opposition midfield. Most importantly, when we lost the ball, no one could get past him. He'd just wipe players out, often just by standing there, not even fouling, and letting them bounce off him.

A genuinely unique player and absolutely crucial to Pochettino's best side. The giveaway about Dembélé is that coaches and managers absolutely revered him, whereas fans often missed what he provided.

JKendall13 · Jan 15, 2020

Pulling this over from the transfer thread, because it’s the best thing I’ve seen on him and everyone should watch.

Really think there’s a ton to like about this transfer. According to the video, he was more highly touted coming out of the academy than Joao Felix and after a solid start in the first team was misused as a right winger when Benfica replaced their manager. The video further adds that the deeper he plays in central midfield the better he’s been, exactly what we need.

Plus he already speaks English, his family lives in London, and we have the best Portuguese manager in history. And if he doesn’t work out in 18 months, we can bin him off. No harm, no foul.

davidmatzdorf · Jan 16, 2020

JKendall13 said:
Pulling this over from the transfer thread, because it’s the best thing I’ve seen on him and everyone should watch.

Really think there’s a ton to like about this transfer. According to the video, he was more highly touted coming out of the academy than Joao Felix and after a solid start in the first team was misused as a right winger when Benfica replaced their manager. The video further adds that the deeper he plays in central midfield the better he’s been, exactly what we need.

Plus he already speaks English, his family lives in London, and we have the best Portuguese manager in history. And if he doesn’t work out in 18 months, we can bin him off. No harm, no foul.

Interesting that the commentator, who plainly speaks Portuguese as well as American, pronounces his surname as "Fernandzh". Very Portuguese, they swallow vowels all over the language, which makes it difficult to understand for someone coming at it for the first time.

Also a further two examples of our manager's first name being pronounced "Zhu-zeh" and not "Joh-zay".

whitelightwhiteheat · Jan 16, 2020

davidmatzdorf said:
It is increasingly clear to me that people grossly underestimate the importance of Dembélé to our 2-3 best seasons. If one judges by goals, assists and magic moments near the goal, one is bound to miss what he brought to the team.

No one could dispossess him. His ball control was exquisite. He would take 2-3 opponents out of play, sometimes physically hanging off him, so that his "sideways pass" could turn into a layoff to a player in a hectare of space. When people would complain that he "passed sideways", they would systematically ignore the fact that he passed sideways 20-25m upfield from where he had collected the ball, because he had dribbled it out of defence and rumbled through half the opposition midfield. Most importantly, when we lost the ball, no one could get past him. He'd just wipe players out, often just by standing there, not even fouling, and letting them bounce off him.

A genuinely unique player and absolutely crucial to Pochettino's best side. The giveaway about Dembélé is that coaches and managers absolutely revered him, whereas fans often missed what he provided.

100% agree. Dembele's job essentially was to get the ball to Eriksen, who should have been the one to open up the opposition and get the goals. Could Dembele have scored a few more goals? I think he definitely had it in his locker to do so, but I don't think this should be the priority criteria when judging him. What he brought to the team completely outweighs that, and you're right - we have not been the same team since he left. We have a massive Dembele shaped hole in our team, and he's impossible to replace due to his uniqueness. If he didn't have those back/hip issues he'd be considered one of the best CM of his generation, no question in my mind.

As for where we stand now, I think what Mourinho will look to do is build a 3 man central midfield. We have two pieces of that jigsaw in Gedson (Seemingly a box to box all energy CM) and Ndombele (Good passing range, he will be the one to look to make us tick) but what we need now is a defensive midfielder in the mold of a Kante or Ndidi. If we get that we will be looking good in the CM department in my opinion.

Hakkz · Jan 16, 2020

DJS said:
I had noticed! ??

Why can’t some of these players have normal numbers though? ?‍

Well, what's a normal number? And then, most numbers are already taken. Especially by a senior player, if it's a youngster we're talking about.

Havre · Jan 16, 2020

Still Dembele only played about 50-60% of the time even when he was at his fittest (66% of total PL minutes was his highest for Spurs). He was obviously amazing at his best - even with the lack of end product, but there is a lot more gone wrong than missing Dembele.

And as others are saying he was unique. That makes it very difficult to build a team around his style. What do you do when he is out? How do you replace that when he leaves etc.?

I don't know Fernandes, but I much prefer his direct style - similar to N'Dombele. Most goals in the PL are scored after only a handful of passes or less (I believe 7 or less stand for about 50% of the goals - so if you include set pieces the long attacks with build up play are less important than you might think). I don't know Fernandes, but would it work with him and N'Dombele centrally? Does he got enough defensive discipline? Strength doesn't worry me, but he needs discipline positionally and the willingness to tackle (which is where Eriksen fails hardest).

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jan 16, 2020

whitelightwhiteheat said:
100% agree. Dembele's job essentially was to get the ball to Eriksen, who should have been the one to open up the opposition and get the goals. Could Dembele have scored a few more goals? I think he definitely had it in his locker to do so, but I don't think this should be the priority criteria when judging him. What he brought to the team completely outweighs that, and you're right - we have not been the same team since he left. We have a massive Dembele shaped hole in our team, and he's impossible to replace due to his uniqueness. If he didn't have those back/hip issues he'd be considered one of the best CM of his generation, no question in my mind.

As for where we stand now, I think what Mourinho will look to do is build a 3 man central midfield. We have two pieces of that jigsaw in Gedson (Seemingly a box to box all energy CM) and Ndombele (Good passing range, he will be the one to look to make us tick) but what we need now is a defensive midfielder in the mold of a Kante or Ndidi. If we get that we will be looking good in the CM department in my opinion.

Not while Alli is in the team.

DJS · Jan 16, 2020

Hakkz said:
Well, what's a normal number? And then, most numbers are already taken. Especially by a senior player, if it's a youngster we're talking about.

1 - 25 baby!
14 and25 free, although could be worse he could have done a Clint Dempsey and taken the number 2 shirt! ??

Hakkz · Jan 16, 2020

DJS said:
1 - 25 baby!
14 and25 free, although could be worse he could have done a Clint Dempsey and taken the number 2 shirt! ??

I prefer when they do the random number generator

Ron Burgundy · Jan 16, 2020

swarvsta said:
Do you really think that ‘upper body strength’ is a key attribute for the modern Premier League?

I would have agreed with you 5+ years ago but I think physical strength is less important now than ever. We are moving towards a game where almost all contact is deemed to be a foul. Even in my Sunday league we get pulled up for even putting our arms across an opponent.

I don’t think it will be a major issue for GF.

To emphasise the point, Dele has bulked up his upper body a lot, but regularly gets pushed off the ball because of (I would guess) a lack of balance, speed and skill

HildoSpur · Jan 16, 2020

I am not sure why but I'm getting more excited about this kid.

thekneaf · Jan 16, 2020

It's massive legs you need for balance and stability, less so upper body. Dembele's legs were a thing to behold, they were like telephone poles. Big fat muscular ankles. Wonderful.

Japhet · Jan 16, 2020

Havre said:
Still Dembele only played about 50-60% of the time even when he was at his fittest (66% of total PL minutes was his highest for Spurs). He was obviously amazing at his best - even with the lack of end product, but there is a lot more gone wrong than missing Dembele.

And as others are saying he was unique. That makes it very difficult to build a team around his style. What do you do when he is out? How do you replace that when he leaves etc.?

I don't know Fernandes, but I much prefer his direct style - similar to N'Dombele. Most goals in the PL are scored after only a handful of passes or less (I believe 7 or less stand for about 50% of the goals - so if you include set pieces the long attacks with build up play are less important than you might think). I don't know Fernandes, but would it work with him and N'Dombele centrally? Does he got enough defensive discipline? Strength doesn't worry me, but he needs discipline positionally and the willingness to tackle (which is where Eriksen fails hardest).

IMO losing Wanyama was pretty close to losing Dembele with regard to our slump.

punkisback · Jan 16, 2020

DJS said:
1 - 25 baby!
14 and25 free, although could be worse he could have done a Clint Dempsey and taken the number 2 shirt! ??

14 needs to be reserved for a special player! I didn't like it when we gave it to Clinton and GKN. Modric and Ginola have worn that shirt it need someone in it! Just like 18 should be for our strikers.

danielneeds · Jan 16, 2020

Watching his vids again, I like that he genuinely seems comfortable using both feet. It makes the pitch so much bigger when your CM can turn either way and pass off both feet.

Hakkz · Jan 16, 2020

ReadieSpur · Jan 16, 2020

JKendall13 said:
Pulling this over from the transfer thread, because it’s the best thing I’ve seen on him and everyone should watch.

Really think there’s a ton to like about this transfer. According to the video, he was more highly touted coming out of the academy than Joao Felix and after a solid start in the first team was misused as a right winger when Benfica replaced their manager. The video further adds that the deeper he plays in central midfield the better he’s been, exactly what we need.

Plus he already speaks English, his family lives in London, and we have the best Portuguese manager in history. And if he doesn’t work out in 18 months, we can bin him off. No harm, no foul.

He was kept out of the side by Tarrabt?

Awesome.

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