Jose Mourinho

Johnny J · Jan 6, 2020

It's madness to think that any new manager can come in and turn around a squad that has been neglected and generally playing awfully for most of this calendar year.

The problem isn't just a simple formation or selection issue. We have deep issues. There's no quick fix.

For those bemoaning Mourinho's start with us, think about your own job. If you moved somewhere else, how long would it take you to make long-term, fundamental, systemic changes to your business unit's processes, procedures to improve efficiency and effectiveness?

You'd need resources and a serious amount of time.

I'm so sick of pundits saying that football is a results business. Any job is a results business. Managers need time and resources. Unless your manager really fucks up and makes his position untenable, you need to back them until and unless performance and results are so bad that there's no realistic chance of them turning it around in a reasonable time frame.

mattdefoe · Jan 6, 2020

Jose’s hardest ever job . No super budget but I think he will come out on top in time

Dean · Jan 6, 2020

I certainly don't agree with Jose's reasoning that they are professional and work for eachother. If I showed the attitude they do in my place of work, I'd fear for my job. There is no team out there. And the squad is so light, I think players like Dele think they are undroppable. Especially in an injury ravaged group of players.

sweyid · Jan 6, 2020

We need to sort out our defense as soon as possible. We’re leaking goals at the moment and that is probably the biggest drain on the players confidence. You always build from the back, get some stability and something to push forward from. We can’t keep playing Serge at RB and Verts at LB with Sissoko covering for Serge, that’s plain as day, so something’s got to change, wether it’s formation or getting new players in.

I wouldn’t mind a bit of boring football for the rest of the season as long as we see some stability in defense. One of Poch’s biggest keys to success was getting us defensively solid, we need to get back to that. We’re not a team that should be letting in the highest amount of goals in the entire league. Lloris’ injury is obviously not helping in that regard.

Kiedis · Jan 6, 2020

sweyid said:
We need to sort out our defense as soon as possible. We’re leaking goals at the moment and that is probably the biggest drain on the players confidence. You always build from the back, get some stability and something to push forward from. We can’t keep playing Serge at RB and Verts at LB with Sissoko covering for Serge, that’s plain as day, so something’s got to change, wether it’s formation or getting new players in.

I wouldn’t mind a bit of boring football for the rest of the season as long as we see some stability in defense. One of Poch’s biggest keys to success was getting us defensively solid, we need to get back to that. We’re not a team that should be letting in the highest amount of goals in the entire league. Lloris’ injury is obviously not helping in that regard.

But a football team is an organic thing. It's hard to seperate the attacking from the defending. We haven't established patterns and frameworks to pass out from the back when we're pressed ever so slightly, so unless Ndombele plays, we hoof. Which is basically giving up possession, and leads to us always being in transition.
We don't have the time to establish a defensive balance that allows us to recover the ball quickly and have sustained spells of possession. It hurts our attacking play, and it gives us more to deal with defensively.

SirHarryHotspur · Jan 6, 2020

DanielJohnCosta said:
average squad or not you CANNOT tell me we shouldn't be beating the quality of a championship team.
That is 100% on the tactics of the manager

In cup games anything can happen, this was the Spurs team that lost to League 2 Grimsby in 2005, Defoe & Keane up front and we still couldn't score ....

Tottenham: Robinson, Stalteri, Naybet, King, Lee, Jenas, Carrick (Davis 67), Brown, Reid (Lennon 61), Defoe, Keane.
Subs Not Used: Cerny, Kelly, Bunjevcevic.

and Spurs team that lost 3-0 to Notts County in 1994 after which Ardiles was sacked, Klinsmann & Sheringham up front and we couldn't score in that game either,

Thorstvedt, Austin, Campbell, Calderwood (Hazard 46), Edinburgh, Popescu, Barmby, Dozzell, Sheringham, Klinsmann
Unused subs. I. Walker, Mabbutt.

Not always to do with tactics, against Boro yesterday I saw players on £60000 or more per week who couldn't pass to a team mate 10 yards away .

Gassin's finest · Jan 6, 2020

SirHarryHotspur said:
In cup games anything can happen, this was the Spurs team that lost to League 2 Grimsby in 2005, Defoe & Keane up front and we still couldn't score ....

Tottenham: Robinson, Stalteri, Naybet, King, Lee, Jenas, Carrick (Davis 67), Brown, Reid (Lennon 61), Defoe, Keane.
Subs Not Used: Cerny, Kelly, Bunjevcevic.

and Spurs team that lost 3-0 to Notts County in 1994 after which Ardiles was sacked, Klinsmann & Sheringham up front and we couldn't score in that game either,

Thorstvedt, Austin, Campbell, Calderwood (Hazard 46), Edinburgh, Popescu, Barmby, Dozzell, Sheringham, Klinsmann
Unused subs. I. Walker, Mabbutt.

Not always to do with tactics, against Boro yesterday I saw players on £60000 or more per week who couldn't pass to a team mate 10 yards away .

The crux, and we all know it. This team, when motivated, can wipe the floor with anyone. It just can't be arsed.

Primativ · Jan 6, 2020

It’s important to recognise that whilst Poch did a great job for us all considered, we still were generally tactically poor and he had could never win us a trophy so I think we were right to get a world class manager in. Poch had enough goes at it and to not even win a single trophy wasn’t good enough.

I think Levy though unfortunately has become a victim like myself, in believing our squad is a potential title challenging squad. It’s not. I’m not sure what has happened, but Toby looks a shadow of his former self. Jan is finished. Sanchez still unconvincing to a degree. Our CM has been horribly neglected. Winks not good enough. Sissoko should be a squad player. Moura Alli not good enough.

We need to move a lot of players out and we need to start again. It’s going to take more than one window. My worry is Jose fucks it up because for example, the way he seeks to big up
Alli. I can’t imagine a Guardiola or Klopp indulging such a terrible player saying he’s my number 10. Essentially saying he’s indispensable. What on earth does he see when he watches Allli perform so every every week? This makes me lose faith a little in Jose I have to admit. I can’t abide by such a monumental error of judgment. My only hope is he secretly realises this but is just trying to keep certain players sweet until he can replace.

My other worry is Levy believes this squad is better than it is and doesn’t allow us to rebuild sufficiently. Regardless we will have to be patient and hope Kane doesn’t ask to leave. We have about half of a good side at the moment.

We’ve go no choice but to tough it out.

spursfan77 · Jan 6, 2020

Wearegoingtowintheleague said:
That's an interesting question, but I doubt you'll get many if any that would admit to that.

There does appear to have been a slight shift in thought, not aimed at any one poster but just a general observation. There was various talk when we had Poch in charge that he had lost the dressing room, that the players were underperforming for him and that we needed a winner like Mourinho to push us over the line and win the big games. Mourinho himself said he was happy with the squad.

At the moment our performances and results don't point to this being the case, so we don't hear those arguments anymore as the evidence doesn't point to this. Rather we had a brief new manager bounce, but we continue to struggle in games much like we did the last season with Poch. So the consensus has shifted to Mourinho needing more time and an overhaul of the squad for us to see progress. The problem with this line of thinking is why have we sacked a manager who had been saying the same thing was needed rather than back him to make those changes? I feel perhaps there are potentially two reasons for this, Levy believed Mourinho could come in and get more out of this squad, he saw us under performing under Poch and knows how important Champions league is to the club. He's always been a fan of Mourinho and see's his winning CV as a chance to have him come in and raise our profile again. Secondly, as much as I liked Poch, he wasn't doing himself any favours with his interviews, he wasn't the same man with the same enthusiasm he once had. Talking about walking away from the club was detrimental to the club and this uncertainty would potentially have caused unrest in the squad, a squad that needed an overhaul well before now to keep it fresh and motivated. So for Levy, Mourinho seemed like a perfect fit, he was happy with the squad and could get more out of the squad without needing a painful rebuild.

So here we are, I feel we should have backed Poch but he needed to show more commitment. But he has gone now and it's important we back Mourinho, we can't turn back the clock. Back him and hope it proves to be a good decision, but I'm sure his appointment is causing a few doubts for Levy who would have expected to see more progress from his appointment already.

Interesting times ahead but that's just my take on what has happened, of course I could be wide of the mark, but the important thing is we are all Spurs fans and although we can disagree we can also find common ground to ensure we all get behind the team and give us the best opportunity to succeed with Mourinho at the helm. I'm not his biggest fan and I have my doubts that he is the right man to take us to the top, but I could see us winning a cup under him and I do find his press conferences refreshing.

So I say let's back Mourinho, history will tell us if we were right or wrong to replace Poch with Mourinho, none of us can know this for sure.

Spot on, I think that’s a good summary of what happened and where we are. I’d add in about transfers too and what went on there though. Whether Poch turned down players that were good enough and whether levy screwed up deals for players in the last two years too.

What’s important now is that the chairman and manager have a proper look at the playing squad and Mourinho let’s levy know who he now wants and doesn’t. I’m sure that would have happened at their initial sit down but with Mourinho providing the proviso he needed some time with the players to confirm who he wants and doesn’t want.

Now it’s up to the scouts to find players Mourinho deems worthy and whether levy thinks they are financially viable options. Unfortunately if the leopard hasn’t changed his spots then there’s not going to be much difference to before.

muppetman · Jan 6, 2020

I don't think people are expecting to see miracles from Jose or for him to have implemented a full turn around in his initial 6 weeks. I recognise he's been here a very short period of time and that there have been plenty of games and so less time to work on the training pitch but there are some things I do expect to see (at least small) improvements in:
- player effort levels
- defensive solidity
- clear patterns of play (other than hoof it up and hope it sticks to Kane or Moura/Son can latch on quickly)
- a general increase in happiness (after all according to ITK the players were sick and tired of Poch and wanted something new)
- a plan of what a Jose Spurs team looks like

But so far I haven't seen signs of improvement in any of these areas, what we have seen is us score a few goals - not sure this is enough of an improvement when you consider what Pearson at Watford and Brendan at Leicester achieved a similar timeframe. What concerns me is that many who lauded Jose as a quick fix are now saying he needs half a new team and I cannot see Levy doing that - if that is the case, what on earth was the point?

As ever, what would be useful is some genuine communication from Jose/the club to us the fans with an honest assessment of what the plan is but no hope of that!

double0 · Jan 6, 2020

stevenurse said:
The problem with that graph is that the long balls/results ratio isn't one that correlates. Some of the games in which we played the fewest long balls were those with the poorest results and performances. Also the term 'long ball' is disingenuous as there's a difference in a hoofed long punt and the balls Toby plays that we saw at Burnley.

When Liverpool do it to get behind the defence it isn't highlighted. It's just getting the ball forward quickly to the pace they have up front. It's not a bad tactic to get the ball in the opposition half.

We also forget that if the players we have can't play like Barcelona at their peak, that's no fault of Jose.

It’s true, Liverpool hit that long ball but it’s not there only method of attack plus they constantly press attack . We play so slow know it’s become snails pace pass across the back until the opposition get into position then hit the long ball.

fedupyid · Jan 6, 2020

Jose is proving Pochettino was not the problem. Our squad is. We have an ageing squad with only one recognised centre forward. I have never liked Jose but what a mistake it was sacking Pochettino for him. Best thing for the club would be for Enic to sack him then sell the club so we can rehire Pochettino.

spursfan77 · Jan 6, 2020

DanielJohnCosta said:
average squad or not you CANNOT tell me we shouldn't be beating the quality of a championship team.
That is 100% on the tactics of the manager

What about when we struggled to beat Newport and Rochdale in the FA Cup under Poch in 2018 and required replays in both ties?

These things happen. The Newport game we easily could of lost and that would of easily been worse than not beating an in form championship team yesterday.

SpartanSpur · Jan 6, 2020

muppetman said:
I don't think people are expecting to see miracles from Jose or for him to have implemented a full turn around in his initial 6 weeks. I recognise he's been here a very short period of time and that there have been plenty of games and so less time to work on the training pitch but there are some things I do expect to see (at least small) improvements in:
- player effort levels
- defensive solidity
- clear patterns of play (other than hoof it up and hope it sticks to Kane or Moura/Son can latch on quickly)
- a general increase in happiness (after all according to ITK the players were sick and tired of Poch and wanted something new)
- a plan of what a Jose Spurs team looks like

But so far I haven't seen signs of improvement in any of these areas, what we have seen is us score a few goals - not sure this is enough of an improvement when you consider what Pearson at Watford and Brendan at Leicester achieved a similar timeframe. What concerns me is that many who lauded Jose as a quick fix are now saying he needs half a new team and I cannot see Levy doing that - if that is the case, what on earth was the point?

As ever, what would be useful is some genuine communication from Jose/the club to us the fans with an honest assessment of what the plan is but no hope of that!

Agree with a lot of this but I do think the bounce was quite clear, going from West Ham through to Bournemouth and Burnley. 2nd half of Olympiakos too. The new formation was a lot clearer to make out and while our play was direct, we weren't just playing the consistent long balls of late, outside of the Utd game. I maintain that the 'hoofball' is a lot down to the players' being low on confidence. Jose has probably told our defence and CM to get rid if they feel under pressure, in the hope to eliminate more mistakes at the back, and now they are taking the easy option with poor movement and energy in front of them.

The Xmas period has really hurt us, for me the players have been poorly prepared physically this season and that heavy period just killed us. Those that aren't injured are out on their feet. Kane and Dele were ambling around like zombies at Norwich and Southampton. Something went horribly wrong there, we had a full preseason. It used to be a good period for us with superior fitness.

I certainly agree that I was hoping for Mourinho to find more tactical solutions to certain problems, and not be beaten so comprehensively in his big games (albeit punished by individual errors at key times), but he is dealing with a lot of things carried over from the prior regime. Mental and Physical. It's hard to get much of a message across when the players are tired AND shot of confidence after 18 months of shocking football and near relegation form.

Would I want Jose in for a whole rebuild? Not really, but maybe this could be the middle ground between a total clear out. ITK had the likes of Kane and Son wanting out in the summer if Poch stayed, now maybe they'll give us another year now if we make a couple of good signings. I'd rather a partial rebuild with the likes of Kane and Son being added to by more experienced signings like Koulibaly with Mourinho, than a total clear out under a project manager. Although the last few weeks have raised doubts over the Mourinho appointment for sure, I think everyone will agree on that.

Poch staying for the rebuild just seems like fantasy land to me still, I love the guy but people need to let it go. He called for the rebuild but I don't think he had the heart or desire to start again after doing so well and coming up empty handed, which I totally understand, in fact I think some players like Eriksen are in the exact same boat.

SpartanSpur · Jan 6, 2020

fedupyid said:
Jose is proving Pochettino was not the problem. Our squad is. We have an ageing squad with only one recognised centre forward. I have never liked Jose but what a mistake it was sacking Pochettino for him. Best thing for the club would be for Enic to sack him then sell the club so we can rehire Pochettino.

Poch isn't going to shag you mate.

stevenurse · Jan 6, 2020

double0 said:
It’s true, Liverpool hit that long ball but it’s not there only method of attack plus they constantly press attack . We play so slow know it’s become snails pace pass across the back until the opposition get into position then hit the long ball.

I agree, but that's not because it's a Jose tactic, it's because Liverpool have probably the best full backs in the world so can use them effectively. We've got aurier and nobody else, unless you count KWP or Foyth, which I don't. Or a centre back with no legs, a young LB who can't seem to go forward, an aging rose who falls over more than putting a cross in, and Davies who while is a safe pair of hands, isn't going to make the surging runs that we'd like to see.

Couple that with not having Ndombele for the majority of the time and you've got very little chance of playing pretty football I'm afraid.

Aurier needs replacing, Sessegnon needs telling he's not playing rugby rules and Ndombele needs to stay fit. Rectify those and the good football will be back.

My only concern in that any reputable transfer links have died and the ITK has dried up

thelak · Jan 6, 2020

My main concern atm is Jose himself looks knackered

feels like a long time ago already we had this jovial man with a tan talking about soft pillows come bouncing in

glacierSpurs · Jan 6, 2020

THOWIG said:
What one aspect of our team has improved since he took over?

In-game management at the very least, has been more responsive and reactive. You won't see GLC and Lamela coming on at the 55th minute together if Poch was still here. That tactical change swayed the balance to our favour massively.

Havre · Jan 6, 2020

fedupyid said:
Jose is proving Pochettino was not the problem. Our squad is. We have an ageing squad with only one recognised centre forward. I have never liked Jose but what a mistake it was sacking Pochettino for him. Best thing for the club would be for Enic to sack him then sell the club so we can rehire Pochettino.

Who built the squad?

I am aware that it will become an endless discussion as to how much influence Pochettino had - and that we would never really know. Certain players like Wanyama, Gazzaniga etc. I think it is pretty safe to say would not have played for us without Pochettino. The overall squad? I believe he had more of a say than he himself alluded to, but obviously nothing I can prove. The same way the opposite can hardly be proven.

As for Mourinho. At least players like Eriksen, Alli, Alderweireld etc. seem to care now. Not really playing much better though. And I really can't get what Mourinho is trying to do at the moment. He started off trying to find a "solid" base playing in a familiar formation etc. One of the players I thought responded the best to that was Sanchez. He then starts to thinker with formation and style between games and in games and he leaves out Sanchez of all players for a soon out of contract Vertonghen who is currently costing us almost as many goals as Aurier. I don't get it.

glacierSpurs · Jan 6, 2020

thelak said:
My main concern atm is Jose himself looks knackered

feels like a long time ago already we had this jovial man with a tan talking about soft pillows come bouncing in

I think he really is working very hard for the team. Think his brain never stops thinking for Spurs at the moment.

Just ashame such attitude for work, never mind he is Mourinho, still got some fans calling for his head already just two months in.

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