Match Threads Spurs vs Olympiacos - Match Thread

Phomesy · Nov 26, 2019

doctor stefan Freud said:
Anyway, while Mourinho’s tactical nous is getting us through early games,

I'm sorry... What?

What "tactical nous" exactly has "got us through" these early tough opponents in West Ham in relegation form and Olympiakos - in dire recent league form and who have only taken points from us so far in CL?

We are playing the exact same formation and tactics as we have under Poch. The only change Mourinho has made is starting Moura and Dier consistently. And he hooked both before 60 minutes.

I mean this as no criticism of Mourinho but the fact is he's changed almost nothing. If anything he's taken us BACK to our comfort zone of 2 years ago and that failed when Olympiakos went through Dier and WInks like hot knife through butter.

I don't blame Mou for this - he's gone back to what made us so successfull when he played against us - but to pretend he's performed some sort of tactical magery is simple nonsense. It's projection. We have performed no better - yet - under Mourinho than we did under Poch. Let's stop talking shit hey?

Hopefully Mourinho has learned that what we had in 2016-18 no longer applies and changes things accordingly. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that's happened so far. In fact the first half tonight was a massive backward step. Which is fine. He has to know what doesn't work to know what does.

But let's stop this "he's working miracles" bullshit meme in its tracks. It's not true; it doesn't help anyone least of all the team. We need change. We need him to change it. Otherwise what's the point?

Sid Tottenham · Nov 26, 2019

TLDR
Bet it was fun as usual, that 1st half
I nearly choked on my prawn sammich
I joke of course I was i with the rest of you unwashed pigs
Couldn’t create anything made them look like Barca I had enough 5 mins before half time I went and had a pint and boom
It’s me they’re trying to hard to impress me
So stupid there’s really no need

Gassin's finest · Nov 26, 2019

ziggy said:
Hope you had a bet

Football was the winner.

fishhhandaricecake · Nov 26, 2019

Phomesy said:
I'm sorry... What?

What "tactical nous" exactly has "got us through" these early tough opponents in West Ham in relegation form and Olympiakos - in dire recent league form and who have only taken points from us so far in CL?

We are playing the exact same formation and tactics as we have under Poch. The only change Mourinho has made is starting Moura and Dier consistently. And he hooked both before 60 minutes.

I mean this as no criticism of Mourinho but the fact is he's changed almost nothing. If anything he's taken us BACK to our comfort zone of 2 years ago and that failed when Olympiakos went through Dier and WInks like hot knife through butter.

I don't blame Mou for this - he's gone back to what made us so successfull when he played against us - but to pretend he's performed some sort of tactical magery is simple nonsense. It's projection. We have performed no better - yet - under Mourinho than we did under Poch. Let's stop talking shit hey?

Hopefully Mourinho has learned that what we had in 2016-18 no longer applies and changes things accordingly. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that's happened so far. In fact the first half tonight was a massive backward step. Which is fine. He has to know what doesn't work to know what does.

But let's stop this "he's working miracles" bullshit meme in its tracks. It's not true; it doesn't help anyone least of all the team. We need change. We need him to change it. Otherwise what's the point?

Sorry buddy but if you think he’s changed almost nothing then you’re not seeing the nuances of the game.

•defensive like is a medium block not on the halfway line
•we don’t pass it back to the goalie 24/7
•we are playing faster and more direct
•RB pushes high whilst LB tucks into a 3 when defending
•we are playing more longer passes
•we are shutting off different channels of play
•he also changed the game tactically after 27 mins by putting Eriksen as another player in the pockets of space to basically win us the game

He’s only had 4 training sessions with this team, it’s very very promising, more so than I could’ve expected.

He just needs to sort out defending set pieces and defensive shape a bit and concentration levels which should come in time with a familiar system and team.

Gassin's finest · Nov 26, 2019

I'm too frazzled to post my thoughts. Only that whatever José said at halftime worked.

Supporting Spurs is like insanity.

COYS

Archibald&Crooks · Nov 26, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
Right, I'm on. I know its risky but I'm ignoring Kane today because the prices are just too skinny (9/2 to score a header), tenners on Dele from outside the area at 22/1 and Moura header at 14/1 and a cheeky fiver on Moura to score from outside the area at 18/1

Another pony spunked up the wall.

But there were signs from Dele that it's coming............

dricha1 · Nov 26, 2019

Phomesy said:
I'm sorry... What?

What "tactical nous" exactly has "got us through" these early tough opponents in West Ham in relegation form and Olympiakos - in dire recent league form and who have only taken points from us so far in CL?

We are playing the exact same formation and tactics as we have under Poch. The only change Mourinho has made is starting Moura and Dier consistently. And he hooked both before 60 minutes.

I mean this as no criticism of Mourinho but the fact is he's changed almost nothing. If anything he's taken us BACK to our comfort zone of 2 years ago and that failed when Olympiakos went through Dier and WInks like hot knife through butter.

I don't blame Mou for this - he's gone back to what made us so successfull when he played against us - but to pretend he's performed some sort of tactical magery is simple nonsense. It's projection. We have performed no better - yet - under Mourinho than we did under Poch. Let's stop talking shit hey?

Hopefully Mourinho has learned that what we had in 2016-18 no longer applies and changes things accordingly. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that's happened so far. In fact the first half tonight was a massive backward step. Which is fine. He has to know what doesn't work to know what does.

But let's stop this "he's working miracles" bullshit meme in its tracks. It's not true; it doesn't help anyone least of all the team. We need change. We need him to change it. Otherwise what's the point?

I agree he’s not changed too much but what he has changed has had an effect;

1) no pissing about between keeper and defenders
2) passing is quicker and more direct
3) we are playing back to front quicker

whilst this isn’t rocket science it is whats right for the current situation which is the pragmatic approach of trying to play the game in the oppenents half.

spurs9 · Nov 26, 2019

feet01 said:
Where does Lo Celso fit into this team?!?

Rotating with Ndombele in CM and Dele in AM.

Mr Pink · Nov 27, 2019

Can now play the kids out in Germany. So plenty of fresh faces for Wolves away, who incidentally will have the Europe league on that Thursday before we play them.

Nice.

Sid Tottenham · Nov 27, 2019

Wow please don’t try a give credit or try and score negative points yet he’s been in charge barely a week.
For fucks. Sake

EQP · Nov 27, 2019

Mr Pink said:
Can now play the kids out in Germany. So plenty of fresh faces for Wolves away, who incidentally will have the Europe league on that Thursday before we play them.

Nice.

Yeah, that works out well for us. Hope Jose uses that game to try out other players. We wouldn't want to get thrashed by Bayern but Mourinho would definitely get a free pass if we were to lose after he experimented with different players/systems.

Bobbins · Nov 27, 2019

Phomesy said:
I'm sorry... What?

What "tactical nous" exactly has "got us through" these early tough opponents in West Ham in relegation form and Olympiakos - in dire recent league form and who have only taken points from us so far in CL?

They're undefeated in all 11 league games this season, have won 8 and drawn 3, winning 4 of 6 games in the last two months, have conceded 4 goals all season and have scored 19.

"Dire".

glacierSpurs · Nov 27, 2019

The sense of urgency right at the start instead of the 80th minute onwards just gives you the belief that we will somehow get back on level terms and fight from there, despite being 2-0 so early.

This is such a positive and crucial change.

Ossie85 · Nov 27, 2019

Primativ said:
And FYI Jose can only make 3 subs. He even said in his post match it could easily have been Winks he took off. I imagine part of Jose's thinking was Winks is far more likely to last the 90 fitness wise, and Dier wouldn't, hence who he picked. They were both fucking abysmal.

Mourinho is pretty clever. Don't trust whatever he says in interviews. He tried to lift Dier's morale with that. Nothing more
He dropped Dier because we were 2-0 down, we needed to score and Dier was seeing the game pass by. Winks was horrible, as were the rest of the team, but his performance was more visible due to the position he plays. Winks had a lot of errors, but at least he was involved in the game and was trying to do something. Dier was inmobile and doing nothing. It was a no brainer imo.

Phomesy · Nov 27, 2019

fishhhandaricecake said:
Sorry buddy but if you think he’s changed almost nothing then you’re not seeing the nuances of the game.

•defensive like is a medium block not on the halfway line
•we don’t pass it back to the goalie 24/7
•we are playing faster and more direct
•RB pushes high whilst LB tucks into a 3 when defending
•we are playing more longer passes
•we are shutting off different channels of play
•he also changed the game tactically after 27 mins by putting Eriksen as another player in the pockets of space to basically win us the game

He’s only had 4 training sessions with this team, it’s very very promising, more so than I could’ve expected.

He just needs to sort out defending set pieces and defensive shape a bit and concentration levels which should come in time with a familiar system and team.

Sorry buddy but everything you've just described has been, as I said, played before under Poch when Mourinho played against us.

He's taken us back in time. Which is fine. He needs time to sort out what our best formation is. He's gone back to something he knows from experience WORKS.

The left back tucking in is also something Poch did but ONLY when Davies was playing? Why? For the same reason Mou did it when Davies started because he CAN do it. Rose CAN'T. So it was a tactical failure for him to try it tonight. And we got exposed.

You, like many, are pretending this is all some revolutionary shit when it's not. It's back to basics. Poch's basics. Mou's said this himself.

And he's learning that it doesn't work. We were horrendous in that first half. If the West Ham game had gone another 10 minutes we would have lost.

You write like we've been world beaters his first two games - this is simply not in line with reality. He's just gone back to the Tottenham team of two years ago with the change that Moura starts ahead of Eriksen. If Poch did that you'd be howling - especially when Mourinho brings Eriksen on over Lo Celso/Ndombele - but Mourinho is going on history.

I'm sorry if this annoys you but we haven't had a decent performance under Mourinho yet. Not even close.

I just don't think that's his fault.

Yet.

But I dont' pretend that beating the worst West Ham side (form wise) in living memory and going 0-2 down to Olympiakos represents any positive sign of his "tactical fucking nous" yet.

And I don't think Mourinho would either.

He will improve us.

He hasn't yet.

Isn't that obvious?

Phomesy · Nov 27, 2019

Bobbins said:
They're undefeated in all 11 league games this season, have won 8 and drawn 3, winning 4 of 6 games in the last two months, have conceded 4 goals all season and have scored 19.

"Dire".

They just drew their last game to the bottom of the table team.

Sorry if that detracts from their record as the only fucking decent team in Greece. But its just to place some perspective on things.

TonyS · Nov 27, 2019

Phomesy said:
I'm sorry... What?

What "tactical nous" exactly has "got us through" these early tough opponents in West Ham in relegation form and Olympiakos - in dire recent league form and who have only taken points from us so far in CL?

We are playing the exact same formation and tactics as we have under Poch. The only change Mourinho has made is starting Moura and Dier consistently. And he hooked both before 60 minutes.

I mean this as no criticism of Mourinho but the fact is he's changed almost nothing. If anything he's taken us BACK to our comfort zone of 2 years ago and that failed when Olympiakos went through Dier and WInks like hot knife through butter.

I don't blame Mou for this - he's gone back to what made us so successfull when he played against us - but to pretend he's performed some sort of tactical magery is simple nonsense. It's projection. We have performed no better - yet - under Mourinho than we did under Poch. Let's stop talking shit hey?

Hopefully Mourinho has learned that what we had in 2016-18 no longer applies and changes things accordingly. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that's happened so far. In fact the first half tonight was a massive backward step. Which is fine. He has to know what doesn't work to know what does.

But let's stop this "he's working miracles" bullshit meme in its tracks. It's not true; it doesn't help anyone least of all the team. We need change. We need him to change it. Otherwise what's the point?

So maybe then, the players couldn't have given a toss about Poch

Twizzle · Nov 27, 2019

a couple of things should now be obvious the Jose

Toby is past his use by date, needs to be replaced

while Eriksen has improved he is still not the player he was time to start with GLC

also Dier to a lesser extent is not the player Jose thinks he is, Ndom should be starting in his position

ralphs bald spot · Nov 27, 2019

fishhhandaricecake said:
Sorry buddy but if you think he’s changed almost nothing then you’re not seeing the nuances of the game.

•defensive like is a medium block not on the halfway line
•we don’t pass it back to the goalie 24/7
•we are playing faster and more direct
•RB pushes high whilst LB tucks into a 3 when defending
•we are playing more longer passes
•we are shutting off different channels of play
•he also changed the game tactically after 27 mins by putting Eriksen as another player in the pockets of space to basically win us the game

He’s only had 4 training sessions with this team, it’s very very promising, more so than I could’ve expected.

He just needs to sort out defending set pieces and defensive shape a bit and concentration levels which should come in time with a familiar system and team.

The biggest change tonight in the second half at least was that we played long diagonals mainly to the left putting pressure on their right back and getting the wide players into the game early. The first half was awful no pace no penetration and we were fortunate that they made an awful mistake which gave us a leg up as up till then we were abject with the rarely achieved not one single player above redemption

Eric_s · Nov 27, 2019

Primativ said:
Not sure which game you were watching? Winks was guilty of giving the ball away and actually creating chances for the opposition? I'm sorry but tenacity is not enough to play for Spurs. People are actually blind when it comes to Winks, it's unreal. You do realise Jose said it was a toss up who to take off, Winks or Dier.

Look, Winks was by far standout one of the worst players in that first half, let's not rewrite history. He improved like the rest of the side did second half, but the thing with Winks is, he just isn't good enough.

We aren't winning anything with him in CM for us. Mourinho is great but he isn't a magician. Not sure why some lesser minds like yourself can't see that.

Agreed fully. Winks were losing the ball or passing them to opposing players putting our defence under constant pressure. Sanchez saved his ass with a brilliant piece of one to one defending. Our attackers looked ineffective because dier and winks could not compete against the opposition and they stopped us playing forward.
Winks was our worst player on the field for at least the first 29 minutes.

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