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The beginning of the end...

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Maske2g

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Feb 1, 2005
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Dougal said:
Only 2 more wins would be World Cup winner. You’ve got to measure achievement somehow. Not just ‘winner’ and ‘should be sacked’.
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Yes, over a large data set, against reasonable opposition. Not 6 games against absolute turd. We made Columbia look good, and Croatia were just a much better side than us. So, first challenge, failed.

Exactly why I rate the 86 point season as the best in my supporting lifetime of give or take 30 years. 38 games. No losses at home. Some great wins WITH some great football. You have to be a top top side to score 86 Premier league points.
 
Dougal

Dougal

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We won 5 out of our 6 league games after Wolves. Losing only to Man United and nobody could work out how DeGea kept them in it. There was a downturn after that which coincided with terrible injuries, Champions League distractions and the small matter of moving home. But you’ll know all this if you’ve read the many times it has been covered in this thread.




Round and round we go... Whhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeee.....
 
Dougal

Dougal

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Maske2g said:
Yes, over a large data set, against reasonable opposition. Not 6 games against absolute turd. We made Columbia look good, and Croatia were just a much better side than us. So, first challenge, failed.

Exactly why I rate the 86 point season as the best in my supporting lifetime of give or take 30 years. 38 games. No losses at home. Some great wins WITH some great football. You have to be a top top side to score 86 Premier league points.
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Yet we weren’t top.
 
nailsy

nailsy

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Jul 24, 2005
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Primativ said:
Agree with you. Klopp works under a very similar set up to how Poch does at Spurs. The people saying Klopp was backed, well yes he was. Poch has also been backed this summer, we have signed two big talents from Europe which cost a fair whack. Yes we may lose Eriksen but Klopp lost Coutinho. I see little difference.

There is no doubt Klopp's eye for a player is exceptional. They signed some players from the German league like Matip and Firminio who have done well and were clearly Klopp buys. Pretty much all of their signings have been great. Klopp gets the final say on all players, and rejects the ones he doesn't, like Poch does.

Yet look at how many flops we have had, N'koudou, Janssen, Aurier, N'jie. Liverpool have also signed many players in this price bracket who have worked out really well.

I do think there are genuine concerns about Poch's ability to spot a player. It's all well and good signing Ndombele's and De Jong's who are known talents, but it's the lesser signings where you take a punt where he has been found wanting.

Pretty much all of our best performers under Poch were already at the club before he arrived.
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Sorry, I'm just catching up on this thread. Who are these players that Klopp has signed in the same price bracket as N'koudou & N'jie that have worked out well? If you're talking about Shaqiri it's hardly a fair comparison as he was a well known Premier League established player while our two were players with potential. Looking through the list of players that Klopp has bought since moving to Liverpool the only other one other than Shaqiri who cost less than £25M that has been a success is Robertson who you could easily compare with Trippier. Firmino signed for Liverpool months before Rodgers was sacked and Klopp was appointed so he really wasn't a Klopp signing.

It's a bit harsh to write off Aurier as a flop when he's been injured so much. If we label him a flop then you have to do the same for Oxlade Chamberlain as they were both signed in the same window and have played a similar number of games.

I can't deny that Klopp has been pretty successful in the transfer market, but he's definitely had more money to spend and could offer higher wages than us so had a significant advantage over Poch in that respect. Don't forget that Poch wanted Mane, but ended up with N'Koudou.
 
nailsy

nailsy

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Jul 24, 2005
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McArchibald said:
Andy Robertson...
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So one player? And a British player that had already played in the Premier League. You can't really compare him to those two. As I said in my post he's a very similar purchase to Tippier, although he's obviously been more successful. Poch has signed far more bargain basement players than Klopp so he's obviously going to have a few failures among the successes - Vic, Toby, Dele, Dier, Trippier, etc.
 
hellava_tough

hellava_tough

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Apr 21, 2005
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Dougal said:
Is that good? Can’t I be Armin Tamzarian?
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I had to look up who that was and fully expected to be schooled in 20th century history LOL!!

FYI Westmoreland was an experienced and well respected general who fought well, but used an ill-fated strategy and ultimate was ousted when public opinion went against him.

He was the fall guy, yet still maintained his view point until his dying day.
 
M

Maske2g

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Feb 1, 2005
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Dougal said:
Yet we weren’t top.
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Unfortunate to say the least.
Dougal said:
We won 5 out of our 6 league games after Wolves. Losing only to Man United and nobody could work out how DeGea kept them in it. There was a downturn after that which coincided with terrible injuries, Champions League distractions and the small matter of moving home. But you’ll know all this if you’ve read the many times it has been covered in this thread.




Round and round we go... Whhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeee.....
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Incredible performances against 2 teams that went down and 1 whose manager was sacked the week after if I recall correctly (I do), as well as high flyers newcastle and Brighton. It was the performances that dropped off a cliff, and the results followed. We were also abysmal in our two domestic cup games in the same period.
 
Dougal

Dougal

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Maske2g said:
Unfortunate to say the least.

Incredible performances against 2 teams that went down and 1 whose manager was sacked the week after if I recall correctly (I do), as well as high flyers newcastle and Brighton. It was the performances that dropped off a cliff, and the results followed. We were also abysmal in our two domestic cup games in the same period.
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How do you think Poch should react to this? Maybe freshen up in the summer, few players in? Some tough calls on senior players? Or carry on like nothing has happened?

Is it Sunday yet? Longest week ever.
 
D

DCSPUR

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Apr 15, 2005
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McFlash said:
How is Lo Celso "clearly not match fit"? I know that Poch has come out with his usual nonsense but GLC is no less fit than any other player at this stage of the season. Ndombele, the same.
How come other clubs manage to integrate new players straight away but we have to wait 6 months?
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Argentina Copa America - look it up
 
D

DCSPUR

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Apr 15, 2005
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Trix said:
Ahh was waiting for this... are the players on low contracts and not wanting to resign Levy's fault or Pochs?

Eriksen is different, but none of the three are because of Levy/money!
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Your post:
Levy is levy get that, but Poch got all 3 in that he wanted. Yes he had to wait but he got all 3.

Which suggests that failures on the playing side are with Poch not Levy (unless I am misinterpreting you)
My response is that he got 3 in (late) but none have been able to impact yet (TN played a bit and is injured, RS injured, Lo Celso not fully fit post Copa) and a key player (Eriksen) wants to leave, plus others (Toby - ITK suggesting for months that his agents threw Levy's v good offer back in his face at the last min), Rose (ITK saying he really wanted to leave) and others. Looking at all of this, it is reasonable to say that Poch has no where close to a full hand to play and 100% deserves time to build a squad.

Your response, which seems to be a part of an itk trend (see VY remarks) is to blame Poch for the contract issues???

Sorry but that is not a good faith way to debate the issues.

Am going to take the cue from JJ's recent post and leave this thread as there is some real weirdness going on in my opinion.
 
Ronwol196061

Ronwol196061

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Apr 9, 2018
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About Trix info I also think it's a problem with our tactics.
They held us in good stead for a long time. Tough tackling, pressing, high line bought us possession and space but that alone is not good enough.
These are reactions to the opposition. I think the idea is to develop quicker strategies from midfield. I think we want to go there with the NDombele and Lo Celso buys. But changing style is never easy
 
hellava_tough

hellava_tough

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Apr 21, 2005
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DCSPUR said:
Your post:
Levy is levy get that, but Poch got all 3 in that he wanted. Yes he had to wait but he got all 3.

Which suggests that failures on the playing side are with Poch not Levy (unless I am misinterpreting you)
My response is that he got 3 in (late) but none have been able to impact yet (TN played a bit and is injured, RS injured, Lo Celso not fully fit post Copa) and a key player (Eriksen) wants to leave, plus others (Toby - ITK suggesting for months that his agents threw Levy's v good offer back in his face at the last min), Rose (ITK saying he really wanted to leave) and others. Looking at all of this, it is reasonable to say that Poch has no where close to a full hand to play and 100% deserves time to build a squad.

Your response, which seems to be a part of an itk trend (see VY remarks) is to blame Poch for the contract issues???

Sorry but that is not a good faith way to debate the issues.

Am going to take the cue from JJ's recent post and leave this thread as there is some real weirdness going on in my opinion.
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See my previous post.

I don't think he's blaming Poch for the contract issues.

We're good for the money and it's up to the players to accept a generous deal.
 
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