- Apr 23, 2014
- 4,583
- 6,947
I was at the debacle that was the Palace game and came out of there bitterly disappointed and rather angry. Poch’s comments after the game only made me more annoyed and frustrated. After a day’s reflection I am now just feel sad at the state of the game and how completely out of touch Managers and Players are with the fans. You’ll notice I didn’t mention owners and that is because, for the bigger clubs at least, the owners have been out of touch with the fans for as long as I can remember.
This isn’t a Poch or ENIC rant. Let me be clear in saying that I don’t want Poch or ENIC gone, but let’s face it. The chances of us ever winning a trophy with them at the helm are slim to none.
I can’t pretend I don’t get the disdain Pochettino holds for the domestic cups. We’ve known for years that it is all about money. It is all about Champion’s League football. When we last won a trophy all it effectively did was put our players in the shop window. I agree with Poch that the benefits of winning a domestic cup aren’t financially rewarding and outside of the winning club’s own fans they aren’t glorious achievements either. From a Manager’s perspective winning a domestic cup isn’t a guarantee of not getting the boot if you fail to get into the Champion’s League. Football has gone so bonkers that you can win the league with Leicester and then get sacked the following season. That lot over the road fired their long-term manager the moment he failed to get them top four, despite him winning a load of FA Cups and never failing to qualify for the Champion’s League before.
The League Cup never held much prestige but the FA Cup certainly did. That’s gone now, for several reasons. The arrival of the Premier League, playing semi finals at Wembley, the demise of the Cup Winners Cup (meaning the reward of the FA Cup, other than the glory of winning it, was no different to winning the League Cup) and a spate of doubles.
For me personally the FA Cup lost its magic the year Man Utd, the holders if I recall correctly, decided not to bother entering it. Then you had mid-table Premier League clubs fielding weakened teams because the FA Cup was deemed an unnecessary distraction that could potentially lead from going from mid-table safety to a Premier League relegation dogfight.
As the FA Cup’s magic has waned some younger fans don’t look at it as something worth winning or particularly glorious. Some of those young fans go on to become professional footballers who don’t see it as anything special and that is just domestic players. Foreign players don’t see it like Ossie did all them years ago. They don’t give a toss about it either and neither do foreign managers.
Do fans care about winning trophies? Realistically, unless you’re a glory hunter or lucky to live locally to a consistently successful club, a lot of fans will spend most of their life supporting a club that won’t win many trophies or ever compete for a League title. With that in mind, is Pochettino right? In my opinion no. I think it merely demonstrates he is another product of the footballing machine that doesn’t understand what keeps it alive. The fans.
Supporting a football club, especially one like Spurs, isn’t rational. Ultimately what entertains a person is entirely subjective but that is why we watch football. It’s not about winning, it’s about entertainment. For a lot of fans part of that entertainment is the banter between rival sets of fans. For some it is winning trophies. For some it is their definition of beautiful football etc. For most of us football is tribal. That tribalism entertains us. Whether it be our own success or finding amusement in the failure of others.
I can only speak for myself but when I look back at those seminal moments of being a Spurs fan aren’t just winning trophies but certainly some great results and performances have gone on to be tainted by failing to go all the way. Let me give some examples.
Winning the FA Cup in 1981 was magical. Two hard fought games with the second one being especially entertaining. Now think of 1982 and hardly anyone talks about it. Speaking for myself, winning it in 1982 was a relief by the end. It was a grind. The outcome was the same, FA Cup winners, but the emotion behind it was very different.
Fast forward to 1991 and the glory for me wasn’t beating Forest in the final, it was beating Arsenal in the semis. Had we gone on to lose the final then that semi would’ve been tainted and not worth as much, but we didn’t. We went on to win and that elevated the Arsenal win even more.
The 1999 League Cup win was dull. Like 1982 for me it was a relief we won it rather than any kind exultation. What I remember more passionately is the run of games to get there, beating Liverpool and Man Utd.
The 2008 League Cup win was special. Not just because we won it. But because who we beat in the final, how we beat them and also how we made it through the semis in such style.
There have been some great League games but ultimately because they failed to amount to a title they just don’t hold the same weight in my heart. The exception to this would be the run in to the end of the 09/10 season and beating Man City to qualify for the Champions League. It wasn’t just the City game thought, it was a cumulation of beating City, Chelsea and Arsenal in that run in.
I’ve enjoyed many of our Champions League games but for me personally the above positive examples trump them comfortably. From a footballing fan’s perspective it is not just about the Champions League. In 20 years time when I think back fondly of my key Spurs memories, it will either be winning finals or the matches that saw us get to the final. The 2008 League Cup win over Chelsea means more than beating Real Madrid in a group stage game of the Champions League. It does for me anyway.
If winning a trophy is just an ego thing and doesn’t take the club to the next level (and what is the next level? Does winning the league but not winning the Champions League count?) then why bother competing at all? It is like when he came out and send finishing above Arsenal in the league doesn’t matter. Thousands of fans turn up week in, week out to support the club. It is insulting to those fans to basically come out and state that what you’re turning up to support does not matter. It does matter. If it doesn't matter then why bother travelling to go and watch the team in Cup games? And from what I've witnessed in this world there are very few successful top sportsman that don't have a massive ego. Poch may struggle to manage those types of players but that ego and arrogance is often what elevates one sportsman above another. Confidence in sport is an amazing thing.
You lose in a cup game and you’re done. It’s over. You lose in the league then usually you have time to recover. Where you get one of those tough runs between cups and league, I get it. But sooner or later you will face weaker teams. Rest players for league games. A Spurs team without one or two key players (who are likely to be on the bench anyway) should have more than enough firepower to see off most Premier League clubs at home. Choose those games to rest players. I remember a few years ago where he effectively threw a game against Borussia Dortmund, in the Europa League, because we were going for the title. If we had to play a top team the weekend after the tie I could get that. But we were playing Bournemouth, a team that we should be comfortably beating even if we rest three or four players after a tough midweek European game.
My final comment is that what I find even more bizarre is that we don’t even throw away these competitions. It is like we aren’t that interested in winning them and yet still pay lip service to them by playing a portion of our first team squad. We get to a final would he play Lloris? No. But he’ll play Kane. I mean seriously, why risk Kane against Tranmere?!
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that unless the cards fall in our favour our chances of winning a trophy under Poch are slim to none. That knowledge takes a shine off any excellent individual result or performance we put in.
The game is all about glory? Only for the fans unfortunately.
This isn’t a Poch or ENIC rant. Let me be clear in saying that I don’t want Poch or ENIC gone, but let’s face it. The chances of us ever winning a trophy with them at the helm are slim to none.
I can’t pretend I don’t get the disdain Pochettino holds for the domestic cups. We’ve known for years that it is all about money. It is all about Champion’s League football. When we last won a trophy all it effectively did was put our players in the shop window. I agree with Poch that the benefits of winning a domestic cup aren’t financially rewarding and outside of the winning club’s own fans they aren’t glorious achievements either. From a Manager’s perspective winning a domestic cup isn’t a guarantee of not getting the boot if you fail to get into the Champion’s League. Football has gone so bonkers that you can win the league with Leicester and then get sacked the following season. That lot over the road fired their long-term manager the moment he failed to get them top four, despite him winning a load of FA Cups and never failing to qualify for the Champion’s League before.
The League Cup never held much prestige but the FA Cup certainly did. That’s gone now, for several reasons. The arrival of the Premier League, playing semi finals at Wembley, the demise of the Cup Winners Cup (meaning the reward of the FA Cup, other than the glory of winning it, was no different to winning the League Cup) and a spate of doubles.
For me personally the FA Cup lost its magic the year Man Utd, the holders if I recall correctly, decided not to bother entering it. Then you had mid-table Premier League clubs fielding weakened teams because the FA Cup was deemed an unnecessary distraction that could potentially lead from going from mid-table safety to a Premier League relegation dogfight.
As the FA Cup’s magic has waned some younger fans don’t look at it as something worth winning or particularly glorious. Some of those young fans go on to become professional footballers who don’t see it as anything special and that is just domestic players. Foreign players don’t see it like Ossie did all them years ago. They don’t give a toss about it either and neither do foreign managers.
Do fans care about winning trophies? Realistically, unless you’re a glory hunter or lucky to live locally to a consistently successful club, a lot of fans will spend most of their life supporting a club that won’t win many trophies or ever compete for a League title. With that in mind, is Pochettino right? In my opinion no. I think it merely demonstrates he is another product of the footballing machine that doesn’t understand what keeps it alive. The fans.
Supporting a football club, especially one like Spurs, isn’t rational. Ultimately what entertains a person is entirely subjective but that is why we watch football. It’s not about winning, it’s about entertainment. For a lot of fans part of that entertainment is the banter between rival sets of fans. For some it is winning trophies. For some it is their definition of beautiful football etc. For most of us football is tribal. That tribalism entertains us. Whether it be our own success or finding amusement in the failure of others.
I can only speak for myself but when I look back at those seminal moments of being a Spurs fan aren’t just winning trophies but certainly some great results and performances have gone on to be tainted by failing to go all the way. Let me give some examples.
Winning the FA Cup in 1981 was magical. Two hard fought games with the second one being especially entertaining. Now think of 1982 and hardly anyone talks about it. Speaking for myself, winning it in 1982 was a relief by the end. It was a grind. The outcome was the same, FA Cup winners, but the emotion behind it was very different.
Fast forward to 1991 and the glory for me wasn’t beating Forest in the final, it was beating Arsenal in the semis. Had we gone on to lose the final then that semi would’ve been tainted and not worth as much, but we didn’t. We went on to win and that elevated the Arsenal win even more.
The 1999 League Cup win was dull. Like 1982 for me it was a relief we won it rather than any kind exultation. What I remember more passionately is the run of games to get there, beating Liverpool and Man Utd.
The 2008 League Cup win was special. Not just because we won it. But because who we beat in the final, how we beat them and also how we made it through the semis in such style.
There have been some great League games but ultimately because they failed to amount to a title they just don’t hold the same weight in my heart. The exception to this would be the run in to the end of the 09/10 season and beating Man City to qualify for the Champions League. It wasn’t just the City game thought, it was a cumulation of beating City, Chelsea and Arsenal in that run in.
I’ve enjoyed many of our Champions League games but for me personally the above positive examples trump them comfortably. From a footballing fan’s perspective it is not just about the Champions League. In 20 years time when I think back fondly of my key Spurs memories, it will either be winning finals or the matches that saw us get to the final. The 2008 League Cup win over Chelsea means more than beating Real Madrid in a group stage game of the Champions League. It does for me anyway.
If winning a trophy is just an ego thing and doesn’t take the club to the next level (and what is the next level? Does winning the league but not winning the Champions League count?) then why bother competing at all? It is like when he came out and send finishing above Arsenal in the league doesn’t matter. Thousands of fans turn up week in, week out to support the club. It is insulting to those fans to basically come out and state that what you’re turning up to support does not matter. It does matter. If it doesn't matter then why bother travelling to go and watch the team in Cup games? And from what I've witnessed in this world there are very few successful top sportsman that don't have a massive ego. Poch may struggle to manage those types of players but that ego and arrogance is often what elevates one sportsman above another. Confidence in sport is an amazing thing.
You lose in a cup game and you’re done. It’s over. You lose in the league then usually you have time to recover. Where you get one of those tough runs between cups and league, I get it. But sooner or later you will face weaker teams. Rest players for league games. A Spurs team without one or two key players (who are likely to be on the bench anyway) should have more than enough firepower to see off most Premier League clubs at home. Choose those games to rest players. I remember a few years ago where he effectively threw a game against Borussia Dortmund, in the Europa League, because we were going for the title. If we had to play a top team the weekend after the tie I could get that. But we were playing Bournemouth, a team that we should be comfortably beating even if we rest three or four players after a tough midweek European game.
My final comment is that what I find even more bizarre is that we don’t even throw away these competitions. It is like we aren’t that interested in winning them and yet still pay lip service to them by playing a portion of our first team squad. We get to a final would he play Lloris? No. But he’ll play Kane. I mean seriously, why risk Kane against Tranmere?!
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that unless the cards fall in our favour our chances of winning a trophy under Poch are slim to none. That knowledge takes a shine off any excellent individual result or performance we put in.
The game is all about glory? Only for the fans unfortunately.