The Game Is About Glory

[Sevens]

no, of course not. I mean no to the first part - he wants a trophy. as far as ego, what are trophies for if not one's ego?

Poch only wants to win the Champion's League. And to think we used to take the piss out of Wenger for winning the 4th place trophy.....

 

[fortworthspur]

Hasn't that always been the case? What should those clubs have done instead? Are we seriously stating that non-top clubs shouldn't waste their time trying to win trophies?

I get thats how you feel but if my choice is the last 5 years with Poch or winning a League cup every 7 or 8 years in otherwise mediocre campaigns Im going with Poch. I felt much more less satisfaction the season we won with Juande. Yes winning was fun but the rest of that season largely sucked.

 

[Sevens]

I wish more people would realise this, especially the media.
Those pricks were even on about Everton having to win some silverware on TS today!!!
Thats not gonna happen unless SERIOUS investment magically appears from somewhere.
Its all about the money.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

I disagree. One of the reasons that the cup competitions are now locked down is because of what is fashionable. In years gone by all the clubs would field their strongest XI. For the last 15 years that barely happens anymore. Most clubs play weakened teams in the cups. I personally think it is madness.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hasn't that always been the case? What should those clubs have done instead? Are we seriously stating that non-top clubs shouldn't waste their time trying to win trophies?

The point is if you go chasing a dream that has no other reward than your self satisfaction you're gonna come a cropper.
You have to prioritize.
Dont get me wrong I fkin hate it.
I think Poch got it horribly wrong and we could have put a far better team out with little risk to our league game tonight.
Like tonight as well, where the fk was Lamela first half?

 

[Sevens]

I get thats how you feel but if my choice is the last 5 years with Poch or winning a League cup every 7 or 8 years in otherwise mediocre campaigns Im going with Poch. I felt much more less satisfaction the season we won with Juande. Yes winning was fun but the rest of that season largely sucked.

There is no reason we can't do both surely?

 

[Sevens]

The point is if you go chasing a dream that has no other reward than your self satisfaction you're gonna come a cropper.
You have to prioritize.
Dont get me wrong I fkin hate it.
I think Poch got it horribly wrong and we could have put a far better team out with little risk to our league game tonight.
Like tonight as well, where the fk was Lamela first half?

In my opinion that is every trophy, Champion's League included. Your post has pretty much answered my opening post. Glory is no longer the prize of winning a competition. It's about the prize of the club becoming as rich as it possibly can. And the club and Manager don't give a fuck about what the fans want.

 

[Lighty64]

I'm sure he does. But actions speak louder than words. Maybe it is a limitation of the manager that he doesn't seem to get his squad rotation right when it comes to "weaker" opponents in the Premier League or that his in game management means that Spurs players are subbed less often than any other club in the League, irrespective of the Spurs score at the time.

It's clear that Poch doesn't really care about the domestic cups. It's clear that he has been told from up high that they don't matter. It's also clear that the clubs owners are delighted with us continually getting top four and the safety of that money is more important than risking a little to try and win the league.

I'm in my mid forties. I don't know how long I'll live for but for the first time in my life I am seriously starting to believe that I may not see Spurs lift another trophy in my lifetime.

can I ask you a simple question please.

if Poch doesn't care about domestic trophies, and his main aim is top 4 which would be great nicking a bit of silverware too. why have we made 1 final and 3 semi's in his 4½ years?

if they wasn't important in any way we would be going what Liverpool did this season, and gone out in the 3rd round of both. against Palace we had a squad pretty decimated with injuries, what do you expect him to do, play those that are semi shagged in hope we might win something but more likely end up with Thursday night in the middle of nowhere.

 

[fortworthspur]

There is no reason we can't do both surely?

I thought your point was we couldnt so we should favor the cups over a strong league performance. I agree we can do both. this year we had extraordinarily bad luck.

 

[fortworthspur]

and btw, no, you dont get a trophy for top 4 but is undeniably an accomplishment to qualify for the champions league group stage.

 

[rez9000]

How long would you give the "project" before you would say that it wasn't instant gratification? The "project" has been going on for 18 years already and yielded one League Cup that was 11 years ago. How much longer do you give it?

For as long as I am able to remember the lesson of Leeds United. I do not want to see this club splurge a load of money to win one trophy and then find themselves with a massive bill that the neither company nor the brand is able to support.

Plus which, your conflating ENIC with the Pochettino period. ENIC may have set in motion the plans they have 18 years ago, but only Pochettino has seemingly been able to actually meet (and surpass) those objectives. It's a matter of record what his mandate was when he first arrived: bring regular Europa League football while the stadium was built, then when in the new stadium, regular CL football with a view to building up to winning the League and / or the Champions League.

Those objectives are clear. None of them are unworthy. I've seen this. We've all seen it. It's the urge to spend, spend, spend, because money brings success. And then we have our day at Wembley, win the FA Cup and then next season it's the same thing. Spend, spend, spend. That's the itch that's going around the fanbase.

Do I think we should have made signings in the last couple of windows? Yes. Do I understand why we haven't? If what's been reported is true, yes. Do I think that because we've been knocked out of another semi-final we should throw caution to the wind, just for one moment of 'glory' when we've been shown how damaging the potential consequences can be? Absolutely not.

Because I want long-term success. I want sustained success. I want Pochettino to be our Ferguson, to be our Wenger. To be the next Mourinho, the next Guardiola. I want Spurs to be contenders every year, not just one year. I want us to be giants again. To be not just a blip on the winning charts, but a regular, every year. So that Bill Nicholson's words that 'if you don't win anything, you've had a bad season' becomes true again.

I want to re-eclipse Arsenal's FA Cup record, and be the club who's won it the most again. I want us to add a fourth (and a fifth and a sixth) European trophy to compare to their none. I want to be able to say I'm a Spurs fan and for every prick who now dribbles 'bottler' to have to choke on their tears because their oil-bastard club has had to buy success while we built it.

And if I have to sacrifice a day at Wembley, if I have to sacrifice ten days at Wembley in order to have that, it's a price worth paying.

 

[slartibartfast]

In my opinion that is every trophy, Champion's League included. Your post has pretty much answered my opening post. Glory is no longer the prize of winning a competition. It's about the prize of the club becoming as rich as it possibly can. And the club and Manager don't give a fuck about what the fans want.

But thats only because of the financial world we now find ourselves in. The difference between yhe haves and the have nots are enormous and the risk and consequences are enormous for the have nots.

Fkin OGS giving it large in reply to Pochs comments, saying 'Man U will always put silverware before league position' really pissed me off.
Well yeah Ole Man U CAN because you're fkin minted and the repercussions of you fielding a strong team are next to non existent.
Oh no Lukaku is injured, we'll have to play Sanchez. Shit we'll just have to make do.

Fkin twat.

Did you feel so cocky going into a cup game at Cardiff when you were in bottom 3?
Didnt think so.
You get my point.


Did I just argue with myself???

 

[Sevens]

can I ask you a simple question please.

if Poch doesn't care about domestic trophies, and his main aim is top 4 which would be great nicking a bit of silverware too. why have we made 1 final and 3 semi's in his 4½ years?

if they wasn't important in any way we would be going what Liverpool did this season, and gone out in the 3rd round of both. against Palace we had a squad pretty decimated with injuries, what do you expect him to do, play those that are semi shagged in hope we might win something but more likely end up with Thursday night in the middle of nowhere.

Fairly comfortable draws combined with stronger teams we've faced also fielding weakened teams. For me it makes even more frustrating that we get so far in some of these competitions and then play a weakened team or weird team selection when we're on the cusp. If the aim is not to take the cups seriously, to presumably lessen the player and coaching load, then don't enter into the competition in the first place. Don't play all those games to get you so far only then to throw it away when you're on the verge of making a final or winning the ruddy thing.

There have been three WTF stand out moments for me through all those years of supporting Spurs.


1) Us hiring Graham as a manager

2) Pochettino not picking Lloris in semi finals or the final.

3) Pochettino playing Son at left wing back against Chelsea in an FA Cup semi final. My WTF was compounded further when Pochettino basically admitted that his inclusion wasn't tactical and was because Son had played well in previous matches and he felt it was unfair not to play him in the semi so they stuck him at left back so he could get to play in the match. He even changed the Spurs formation to accommodate him.

 

[slartibartfast]

and btw, no, you dont get a trophy for top 4 but is undeniably an accomplishment to qualify for the champions league group stage.

Bloody is given what we are up against.
Actually I was thinking the other day (oh dear) about how long its been since Liverpool last won the league and taking into account that for a mahoosive number of those years they were probably one of the two richest clubs in the country. Well thats just shockingly piss poor management.
Even now they've been up there with Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal and still only even got close a few times.
Seriously what the fk have they been doing????

PS. Ive been drinking

 

[Sevens]

For as long as I am able to remember the lesson of Leeds United. I do not want to see this club splurge a load of money to win one trophy and then find themselves with a massive bill that the neither company nor the brand is able to support.

Plus which, your conflating ENIC with the Pochettino period. ENIC may have set in motion the plans they have 18 years ago, but only Pochettino has seemingly been able to actually meet (and surpass) those objectives. It's a matter of record what his mandate was when he first arrived: bring regular Europa League football while the stadium was built, then when in the new stadium, regular CL football with a view to building up to winning the League and / or the Champions League.

Those objectives are clear. None of them are unworthy. I've seen this. We've all seen it. It's the urge to spend, spend, spend, because money brings success. And then we have our day at Wembley, win the FA Cup and then next season it's the same thing. Spend, spend, spend. That's the itch that's going around the fanbase.

Do I think we should have made signings in the last couple of windows? Yes. Do I understand why we haven't? If what's been reported is true, yes. Do I think that because we've been knocked out of another semi-final we should throw caution to the wind, just for one moment of 'glory' when we've been shown how damaging the potential consequences can be? Absolutely not.

Because I want long-term success. I want sustained success. I want Pochettino to be our Ferguson, to be our Wenger. To be the next Mourinho, the next Guardiola. I want Spurs to be contenders every year, not just one year. I want us to be giants again. To be not just a blip on the winning charts, but a regular, every year. So that Bill Nicholson's words that 'if you don't win anything, you've had a bad season' becomes true again.

I want to re-eclipse Arsenal's FA Cup record, and be the club who's won it the most again. I want us to add a fourth (and a fifth and a sixth) European trophy to compare to their none. I want to be able to say I'm a Spurs fan and for every prick who now dribbles 'bottler' to have to choke on their tears because their oil-bastard club has had to buy success while we built it.

And if I have to sacrifice a day at Wembley, if I have to sacrifice ten days at Wembley in order to have that, it's a price worth paying.

Interesting points.

Do you think we need to splurge a load of money to stand any chance of winning a domestic cup? Do you feel the current first XI or squad isn't good enough to win one?

I think every club would love to have a Ferguson. But it is highly unlikely we'll see that scenario again for a long time, if ever. I dare say that if we are putting all our eggs into the one basket that in 10 or 20 years we may have a dominant period, then it is a bad bet.

We are basically saying that rather than go out concentrate seriously on our career we're going to keep doing part times jobs so that we can fund buying a lottery ticket because one day we may win millions. Which is more than we could ever dream of earning if we just did a normal 9-5 job.

 

[fortworthspur]

Bloody is given what we are up against.
Actually I was thinking the other day (oh dear) about how long its been since Liverpool last won the league and taking into account that for a mahoosive number of those years they were probably one of the two richest clubs in the country. Well thats just shockingly piss poor management.
Even now they've been up there with Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal and still only even got close a few times.
Seriously what the fk have they been doing????

PS. Ive been drinking

Liverpool has underachieved for years. Unfortunately Klopp has changed that.

 

[Lighty64]

But even with the new stadium and training facilities, we're still behind our rivals resource wise. I'm not saying we shouldn't do these things (quite the opposite, standing still is going backwards) but the Emirates didn't catapult Arsenal to a greater level of success than when they were at Highbury.

The cynic in me says that ENIC are happy to invest in capital projects because there is a lower risk of not realising the return. I've said this before many times but if it was between Spurs generating £50m profit in a trophyless season vs taking a risk and spending £50m to have a 75% chance of winning the league or a 25% chance of breaking even, then ENIC would bank the £50m and consider it a good season.

when the 1st started the plan to build the Emirates they thought it would, but then came along Abramovic and the City owners. plus they messed up on the sponsorships which didn't help

 

[slartibartfast]

Liverpool has underachieved for years. Unfortunately Klopp has changed that.

I still have faith they can fk it up but Man City are doing their best to stop that happening.
Guess we'll just have to sneak up and nick the bugger

 

[Sevens]

Bloody is given what we are up against.
Actually I was thinking the other day (oh dear) about how long its been since Liverpool last won the league and taking into account that for a mahoosive number of those years they were probably one of the two richest clubs in the country. Well thats just shockingly piss poor management.
Even now they've been up there with Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal and still only even got close a few times.
Seriously what the fk have they been doing????

PS. Ive been drinking

One of the biggest sources of amusement I've had in the football world is how under performing Liverpool have been in the Premier League era. I despise them. I've loved Spurs finishing above them most season in the last 10 years. And I am mortified that we've one managerial appointment they seem to have not only leap frogged us but also turned themselves into genuine title contenders (favourites this year now). It's an absolute pile of wank.

 

[Sevens]

when the 1st started the plan to build the Emirates they thought it would, but then came along Abramovic and the City owners. plus they messed up on the sponsorships which didn't help

Their manager refusing to buy or play a defensive midfielder didn't do their cause much good either in terms of challenging for league titles.....

 

[slartibartfast]

One of the biggest sources of amusement I've had in the football world is how under performing Liverpool have been in the Premier League era. I despise them. I've loved Spurs finishing above them most season in the last 10 years. And I am mortified that we've one managerial appointment they seem to have not only leap frogged us but also turned themselves into genuine title contenders (favourites this year now). It's an absolute pile of wank.

Money talks. They spent more than anyone and, ta da, top of the league.
Mans a genius.
We've all seen the comparison tables of league positions and spending down the years. Same fkin thing most seasons.

Edit. Obviously this theory currently puts us in League 1 lol.