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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

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y1dk1d

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
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People who think we will get Rod/MS/both in January shouldn't hold their breath.
13/14 Jan- no-one (£0m)
12/13 Jan- Holtby and Fryers (£4.5m)
11/12 Jan- Saha and Nelsen (£0m)
10/11 Jan- Khumalo and Pienaar (£4.5m)
09/10 Jan- Kaboul (£8m)

Not much quality, not much money
 
S

StanSpur

Ronny Rosenthal
Jul 15, 2004
2,439
2,046
SpartanSpur said:
My favourite assumption over the last few pages is the one whereby someone arguing the merits of paying over market value for a specific player for unique reasons, such as Morgan Schneiderlin this summer (Poch #1 target, key for system, first team improvement and PL grounded) means that person automatically wants us to pay over market value for EVERY single player linked and therefore 'do a Leeds'.

I totally agree with us stepping away from the tricky Musacchio deal for example, but I feel we could have pushed the boat out to £25m for our number one target, especially when we already saved money on the CB target and he apparently had low wage demands. Who cares if people think he's overpaid if he becomes integral to what we do. Stambouli doesn't earn us any bonus points for being better value for money!

But alas, there can be no middle ground on the internet.
Click to expand...

To be fair until last season not many fans would have been after Schneiderlin as the solution to all Tottenhams problems. He had a very good season last year and has continues that. We have bought someone a year younger in the same style as Morgan in Stambouli, what is there to say he won't do as well if not better? If he can do the same job and comes in at £5m instead of £25m then that is fantastic news for the club. At the end of the day £25m is an obscene amount of money and whilst there would be more confidence on the level at which he can perform there is no guarentee that he will be better
 
wadewill

wadewill

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2005
3,162
10,482
y1dk1d said:
People who think we will get Rod/MS/both in January shouldn't hold their breath.
13/14 Jan- no-one (£0m)
12/13 Jan- Holtby and Fryers (£4.5m)
11/12 Jan- Saha and Nelsen (£0m)
10/11 Jan- Khumalo and Pienaar (£4.5m)
09/10 Jan- Kaboul (£8m)

Not much quality, not much money
Click to expand...

Difference being that he is out of contract next summer so will be available cheaper than he would have been now.
 
SpartanSpur

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,555
43,095
StanSpur said:
To be fair until last season not many fans would have been after Schneiderlin as the solution to all Tottenhams problems. He had a very good season last year and has continues that. We have bought someone a year younger in the same style as Morgan in Stambouli, what is there to say he won't do as well if not better? If he can do the same job and comes in at £5m instead of £25m then that is fantastic news for the club. At the end of the day £25m is an obscene amount of money and whilst there would be more confidence on the level at which he can perform there is no guarentee that he will be better
Click to expand...

I don't knock that, have to say I'm concerned about Stambouli's lack of caps despite playing in France and even winning a league there (plus being an U21 player). Deschamps admitted with Schneiderlin he wouldn't normally even entertain the thought of players at clubs like Soton so he must really rate him.

Write ups on Stambouli are good however, so hopefully he be a very handy signing.

It's more about our attitude to top signings in general, not just Moutinho in general. If the next player down on the list for a position is half the price we seem to be odds on in getting them instead, despite the fact we clearly favoured the other player for more reasons than to show off with a flashy price tag.
 
sloth

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
SpartanSpur said:
Firstly I assume you are not including me in that (as I've aired my frustrations in here too).

I appreciate your need to speak out against some unjust criticism, but your tone almost comes across as if the board should not be questioned (i.e. The polar opposite), which can also aggrieve people like myself who appreciate the board we have, but also have valid concerns and frustrations at this side of the business.

Which begs the question, do you have any criticisms of our approach to transfer activity in the past few seasons at all?
Click to expand...

I did have loads of criticisms under Harry. I thought we went for the wrong targets because I think Harry's lazy, and a bit old fashioned in that he'll trust his gut having seen a player a couple of times, but won't trust his scouting staff etc... I thought he was wrong to buy back Keane and Defoe, and to get Crouch etc... I thought we should have gone for Suarez and not held out for Carroll that January window... I didn't like the way we were hamstrung under AVB where it was his unrealistic targets or no one, and if we got in someone that hadn't been his direct choice he'd sulk and not put him in the team. I'm not sure some of Baldini's targets have been the best, or we've paid the right price for them, and given Baldini was Levy's choice and he signs off on those purchases the buck stops with Levy. I also don't think Commolli was a brilliant choice as DoF, that said I think the choices at the time made were understandable.

I agree on the whole with our aims and objectives which is to have an entire staff which buys into the long-term goal of developing talent, be it our own youth products or diamonds we've bought in the rough, this rather than going after the polished articles our fans would prefer and that clubs with bigger budgets can go for. I agree that if there isn't a player who can definitely improve us at a value price we should keep our powder dry and either invest what we save in reducing the stadium debt, or in a player we know we do want come the following windows.

I think there have been plenty of mistakes along the way, but I think this is natural in any endeavour and I think when looked at in the round we have hugely over achieved when compared to our peers, but I think our peers are clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds and Everton, rather than what some of our fans seem to consider are our peers which are clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal and Utd.
 
Gaz_Gammon

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
spurslenny said:
Dropping 1 spot is hardly slipping down the league.

Man Utd going from 1st to 7th is slipping down the league.
Click to expand...


Sorry to be pedantic but fourth to sixth is not one spot, and the decline has been bloody evident by the fact that our Chairman has fired three managers in that time.
 
sloth

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
thebetamaxboy said:
I don't think anyone would object to us being frugal if we knew its all going on the stadium and we saw progress there and a concrete timetable.
Click to expand...

That's precisely the problem though, if people read the accounts, or the reports of them, or took on board what people who have read them are saying then they'd know that the surplus has been going on precisely that. It's all in black and white, but instead people hold forth with their ignorance, believing that somehow Levy and Lewis are siphoning the surplus out of the club, but not bothering to make any effort to educate themselves.
 
sloth

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
SpartanSpur said:
I appreciate that, and it's all about finding the sweet spot. Currently I think we are too close to the former, which is much safer and more sensible, but we also have to be very effective in what we do or we'll end up getting diminishing returns on the pitch, which personally I believe is starting to happen, and it's going to take our biggest overachievement of all for us not to continue that come next summer.

We can't afford to let the team slip too much, or that extra stadium income is not fully guaranteed. And based on how we've gone from Bale/VDV/Modric/King to Lloris/Eriksen/Vertonghen (which is a downgrade), I fear the trend continuing next time our top players move on, which is likely due to the probable CL lockout you mentioned.

This could all change by being more committed with our top targets come January however. If we aren't going to back our transfer committee fully then what is the point of paying for one?
Click to expand...

As a general point, what I would say is that a well known facet of most business endeavours is that people always seem to over estimate the likelihood of success, and the income that can be achieved, and equally often seem to underestimate the costs. this is even when it's their business and they have all the facts and figures to hand... how much more likely is this bias when it's a thing you love which is being talked about, and the facts and figures aren't easily to hand? I imagine any owner who correctly estimated the costs and the chances of success, would to most fans seem unduly cautious.
 
balalasaurus

balalasaurus

big black member
Dec 29, 2012
2,065
3,101
Gaz_Gammon said:
Sorry to be pedantic but fourth to sixth is not one spot, and the decline has been bloody evident by the fact that our Chairman has fired three managers in that time.
Click to expand...
Is it really a 'decline' though? We've still managed to stay competitive in Europe, on many occasions finished a level above what our financial resources dictate and have still managed to balance the books in spite of all the changes we made.

A lot of people slate Levy for treating this club like a business (thus compromising chances of success) but no-one keeps in mind that businessmen also want their businesses to be successful. DL is a shareholder which means that his interest in the club is just as real as any of our own. Maybe, just maybe, he actually has a plan?
 
danielneeds

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
48,812
thebetamaxboy said:
I don't think anyone would object to us being frugal if we knew its all going on the stadium and we saw progress there and a concrete timetable.
Click to expand...
I think this is a good point. There has been zero communication from the club on the stadium since the big unveiling years ago.
 
T

thebetamaxboy

Active Member
Jun 5, 2012
382
480
sloth said:
That's precisely the problem though, if people read the accounts, or the reports of them, or took on board what people who have read them are saying then they'd know that the surplus has been going on precisely that. It's all in black and white, but instead people hold forth with their ignorance, believing that somehow Levy and Lewis are siphoning the surplus out of the club, but not bothering to make any effort to educate themselves.
Click to expand...

..surely a simple statement from Levy pointing to that would help?.. It's the leaving us in the dark that bugs the fans.
 
J

JamieSpursCommunityUser

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
1,903
10,049
StanSpur said:
To be fair until last season not many fans would have been after Schneiderlin as the solution to all Tottenhams problems. He had a very good season last year and has continues that. We have bought someone a year younger in the same style as Morgan in Stambouli, what is there to say he won't do as well if not better? If he can do the same job and comes in at £5m instead of £25m then that is fantastic news for the club. At the end of the day £25m is an obscene amount of money and whilst there would be more confidence on the level at which he can perform there is no guarentee that he will be better
Click to expand...

The point is Stamboui and Schneiderlin perform different roles.

Stamboui is a more technical Sandro.

Schneiderlin is a less magical, more physical Modric.

We've bought back up / rotation for Capoue.
 
danielneeds

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
48,812
y1dk1d said:
People who think we will get Rod/MS/both in January shouldn't hold their breath.
13/14 Jan- no-one (£0m)
12/13 Jan- Holtby and Fryers (£4.5m)
11/12 Jan- Saha and Nelsen (£0m)
10/11 Jan- Khumalo and Pienaar (£4.5m)
09/10 Jan- Kaboul (£8m)

Not much quality, not much money
Click to expand...

You're probably right.

But apart from last season, when we were in disarray but had spend 100m in the summer, we were in going well under AVB and Harry, and had done most of our business in the summers.
 
Y

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,971
71,398
sloth said:
That's precisely the problem though, if people read the accounts, or the reports of them, or took on board what people who have read them are saying then they'd know that the surplus has been going on precisely that. It's all in black and white, but instead people hold forth with their ignorance, believing that somehow Levy and Lewis are siphoning the surplus out of the club, but not bothering to make any effort to educate themselves.
Click to expand...
Its all fune and dandy that money is going toward the stadium. Thats not the fucking point. They dont spend a dime on the club. Its the clubs own money going toward the stadium and transfers. While our owners dont spend a dime and one of them's pay continues to rise for being chairman.
 
sloth

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
thebetamaxboy said:
..surely a simple statement from Levy pointing to that would help?.. It's the leaving us in the dark that bugs the fans.
Click to expand...

He makes an annual statement regards the accounts to that effect. There's numerous newspaper articles, and stuff in the New Stadium thread from all sorts of news sources. But more than that, just go to the bloody stadium and see the work that's already taken place. Basically you can't blame someone else if you haven't taken more of an interest, and you can't say the information hasn't been communicated effectively to you, when it clearly has to me and others. If I know it, and have kept abreast of the latest news with little effort, then it can't be the club can it?
 
danielneeds

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,182
48,812
yankspurs said:
Its all fune and dandy that money is going toward the stadium. Thats not the fucking point. They dont spend a dime on the club. Its the clubs own money going toward the stadium and transfers. While our owners dont spend a dime and one of them's pay continues to rise for being chairman.
Click to expand...
But doesn't Levy's pay deserve to rise if in his time as chairman he delivers a world class stadium, a world class training facility, the beginnings of regeneration of the local area, and consistent participation in European competition?
 
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