The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 15th May 2014

xtrac · May 15, 2014

UncleFool said:
Levy's reign suggests that any appointment will be for only two-three years

Thing is he is shooting himself in the foot by being too trigger happy, average time says 2 years, but managers are going to demand longer in the future if this appointment doesnt pan out, so they get a bigger pay off when it all goes tits up in DL's eyes.

SpartanSpur · May 15, 2014

HappySpur said:
So basically, he plays exactly like de Boer but somebody compared Frank with AVB and everything went to pot because people are sheepish and obtuse

http://www.whoscored.com/Articles/c...am-Focus-Explaining-Ajaxs-Style-Under-De-Boer

FDB, AVB and Pochettino have quite a lot of overlapping philosophies. Which does beg the question why the AVB comparison comes up to promote Poch over Frank or vice versa. Why? because people have favourites.

The one undeniable fact however is that one of the 3 has established his style fully with a weaker team in a more competitive league, our league. Two have excelled in establishing attacking play as the best team in their league (which their coaching no doubt helped elevate them to, Frank especially), one tried to do it in the PL already and failed and the other hasn't had the opportunity yet to prove either way, at any other club, PL or otherwise.

I take the latest ITK as good news however. I certainly want both Poch and FDB to be interviewed.

TEESSIDE1 · May 15, 2014

dovahkiin said:
cabinessence on ftl:

jair1970 said:
Think we can ignore Darragh's post now...
Re: cabinessence:
I've got used to Poch being in charge, do we have to change again?

Erm, re bore the other team to death by playing possession football?

Southampton averaged 58% possession last season and had 15 clean sheets ... the stats suggest 'possession football', yet they were very attack minded and only failed to score in 7 premier league games. Whereas Ajax scored 69 and only conceded 28 goals. Let's not forget how impressive they were in the Champions League, drawing at AC Milan (goalless) & beating them at home (1 nil), and holding Barcelona 2-2 at home. The previous season they stuffed Man City at home and held them away. To call their football boring is a tad harsh.

Gedson100 · May 15, 2014

@Darragh meet @yankspurs,
@yankspurs meet @Darragh

Go have a few pints together somewhere & rant Tottenham, get it all out, then come back & join the bastard sons of Levy & we'll all be happy in an ENIC wonderland.

HappySpur · May 15, 2014

TEESSIDE1 said:
Erm, re bore the other team to death by playing possession football?

Southampton averaged 58% possession last season and had 15 clean sheets ... the stats suggest 'possession football', yet they were very attack minded and only failed to score in 7 premier league games. Whereas Ajax scored 69 and only conceded 28 goals. Let's not forget how impressive they were in the Champions League, drawing at AC Milan (goalless) & beating them at home (1 nil), and holding Barcelona 2-2 at home. The previous season they stuffed Man City at home and held them away. To call their football boring is a tad harsh.

Well "tad harsh" is a nice way of putting it.

Dirty Ewok · May 15, 2014

UncleFool said:
Levy's reign suggests that any appointment will be for only two-three years

Uh....all of England is a 2-3 year appointment doesn't matter if it is Levy in charge or not.

Currently in the 4 top divisions the average tenure for managers is this:

PL: 1.89 Seasons
Championship: 1.86 Seasons
League 1: 1.62 Seasons
League 2: 2.01 Seasons

In the top 4 flights there are 3 managers who have been in a posting longer than 4 season (Wenger, Tisdale and Yates), hell there are only 6 managers in the top 4 divisions that have been with the team longer than 3 seasons and one of them is Alan Pardew who the Barcode fans have been begging to be sacked for 2 seasons now.

Any management position in England is short term, to think it is anything other than that sets yourself up for heartbreak.

Levy may seem sack happy, but he is more or less in line with the rest of England not to mention Spain and France and amazingly he is better than the Italians.

loaderspurs · May 15, 2014

xtrac said:
Thing is he is shooting himself in the foot by being too trigger happy, average time says 2 years, but managers are going to demand longer in the future if this appointment doesnt pan out, so they get a bigger pay off when it all goes tits up in DL's eyes.

I see this a lot but don't agree with it as vehemently as some do. Let's consider past 10 years:
Santini: left due to falling out with arnesen, clearly regretted taking spurs job. He himself said he 'dug his own grave' taking job pre euros.
Jol: huge success, brought good football, european football for first time in years, loved by all. Ended badly. Big black mark on Levys record
Ramos: skull duggery to start. Won us a cup but dreadful in league. Could we really have stuck with him? Fans were clamouring for his head, easily argue Levys hand was forced and did the right thing.
Redknapp: very successful in his time here. In the last season, (of 4 years, not a short stint in the modern game), he threw away third due to distractions of England job, court case w/e. Also supposedly a lot of behind scenes stuff we are not privy to. Again, a LOT of fans were happy to see him go, or not unhappy if you prefer.
Avb and Sherwood: a lot of fans wanted them gone long before they actually were. Both alienated players, and reports avb pissed off everyone behind the scenes. Again easily arguable Levys hand was forced.

For me the only 'unreasonable' sacking was Jol. Yes this brings into question the actual hiring of these managers, but you can also say as a club we have come a hell of a long way in the last 10 years, from delight at Europa league once to it being the expected minimum. The fans lose patience with the manager a lot sooner than the club does anything. If fans give the manager time and support him, through the bad and the good, especially the bad, then the club will be in a position to give them more time.

mill · May 15, 2014

Dirty Ewok said:
Uh....all of England is a 2-3 year appointment doesn't matter if it is Levy in charge or not.

Currently in the 4 top divisions the average tenure for managers is this:

PL: 1.89 Seasons
Championship: 1.86 Seasons
League 1: 1.62 Seasons
League 2: 2.01 Seasons

In the top 4 flights there are 3 managers who have been in a posting longer than 4 season (Wenger, Tisdale and Yates), hell there are only 6 managers in the top 4 divisions that have been with the team longer than 3 seasons and one of them is Alan Pardew who the Barcode fans have been begging to be sacked for 2 seasons now.

Any management position in England is short term, to think it is anything other than that sets yourself up for heartbreak.

Levy may seem sack happy, but he is more or less in line with the rest of England not to mention Spain and France and amazingly he is better than the Italians.

I think many people don't get this and expect someone to build a dynasty. If we get a manager that's any goodtthey'll most probably out the door as quick as carrick, berba, modric and bale unfortunately. Welcome to the layer cake

LexingtonSpurs · May 15, 2014

All right, which one of you guys is telling porkies in here?

Dirty Ewok · May 15, 2014

mill said:
I think many people don't get this and expect someone to build a dynasty. If we get a manager that's any goodtthey'll most probably out the door as quick as carrick, berba, modric and bale unfortunately. Welcome to the layer cake

Agreed....i think everyone is in love with the idea of finding the "next Fergie" or the "next Wenger"...and honestly why wouldn't you?....who wouldn't love to have guaranteed stability and performance? However it is a wildly unfair expectation to put on any manager.

But Fergie, Wenger and Moyes were all outliers in the landscape of football, you can't predict the success and sheer luck needed to have a manager endure a long term spell with a club. Add into the calculation the individual manager's own ambition...SAF was managing the larget team on the planet and had already tried his hand at the national level and didn't care for it....where the hell else could he go that was bigger (and paid as well) as United?...Real, Barca? Can't see SAF clicking in Spain.

Yes, Poch or FdB may be short term appointments as Levy could sack them....but given the promise that both have showed it could just as easy be a case where they move on to bigger and better things of their own choosing (FdB to Barca for example).

Appointing a manager is a gamble from both sides, what we should want aim for is to get a manager who can perform well for 3 seasons and leave us in a better situation than when he came in. Any longer than that is icing on the cake. Any shorter than that is just par for the course in English football.

Drexl · May 15, 2014

loaderspurs said:
I see this a lot but don't agree with it as vehemently as some do. Let's consider past 10 years:
Santini: left due to falling out with arnesen, clearly regretted taking spurs job. He himself said he 'dug his own grave' taking job pre euros.
Jol: huge success, brought good football, european football for first time in years, loved by all. Ended badly. Big black mark on Levys record
Ramos: skull duggery to start. Won us a cup but dreadful in league. Could we really have stuck with him? Fans were clamouring for his head, easily argue Levys hand was forced and did the right thing.
Redknapp: very successful in his time here. In the last season, (of 4 years, not a short stint in the modern game), he threw away third due to distractions of England job, court case w/e. Also supposedly a lot of behind scenes stuff we are not privy to. Again, a LOT of fans were happy to see him go, or not unhappy if you prefer.
Avb and Sherwood: a lot of fans wanted them gone long before they actually were. Both alienated players, and reports avb pissed off everyone behind the scenes. Again easily arguable Levys hand was forced.

For me the only 'unreasonable' sacking was Jol. Yes this brings into question the actual hiring of these managers, but you can also say as a club we have come a hell of a long way in the last 10 years, from delight at Europa league once to it being the expected minimum. The fans lose patience with the manager a lot sooner than the club does anything. If fans give the manager time and support him, through the bad and the good, especially the bad, then the club will be in a position to give them more time.

Pretty sure Jol went behind Levy's back and whored himself to Newcastle while he was still our manager, so relations with Levy were heavily strained so our poor start to the season gave Levy the excuse he needed

Mister Jez · May 15, 2014

dagraham said:
Still ignoring Benitez then. Big mistake.

Don't think its a question of ignoring him, more down to the fact he has just taken Napoli into the CL, his compensation would be huge, as would his demands.
Might be reading this all wrong, but I think it is a two horse race.......

Gb160 · May 15, 2014

Dirty Ewok said:
Yes, Poch or FdB may be short term appointments as Levy could sack them....but given the promise that both have showed it could just as easy be a case where they move on to bigger and better things of their own choosing (FdB to Barca for example).

I agree with the majority of this, but FDB has stated he wouldn't want to manage a club like Barca.....

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...er-league-move
"I would not go to Barcelona. It is very difficult to be a coach there. What can you teach players like Messi and Iniesta"

Mister Jez · May 15, 2014

SpartanSpur said:
Archibald&Crooks said: ↑
Does he say/make clear wether it's him that's "a bit concerned" or the club? If it's the club then can someone sling it into the RO (i'm off for a spot of dinner) if it's him then we'll leave it as it's his own onion. Ta.

Those two qualities, style of play (spurs way/not AVB) and building a dynasty must be quite high up DL's list.

The latter was the big plan for AVB I'm sure. Which worked out well.

Daniel had a 5 year plan for AVB, not his fault AVB had a brain-fart of epic proportions.

Mister Jez · May 15, 2014

Gb160 said:
I agree with the majority of this, but FDB has stated he wouldn't want to manage a club like Barca.....

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...er-league-move
"I would not go to Barcelona. It is very difficult to be a coach there. What can you teach players like Messi and Iniesta"

Well that's ok then, we are nothing like Barca, match made in heaven.......

SpartanSpur · May 15, 2014

Mister Jez said:
Daniel had a 5 year plan for AVB, not his fault AVB had a brain-fart of epic proportions.

I agree and I'm more than happy for him to go for it again. I do feel both FDB and Poch are equipped to build a dynasty however.

teddy_sheringham_125 · May 15, 2014

I don't believe that FdB's style is the same as AVB's, at least not the version of it we saw at spurs. There is nothing wrong with high possession football, it is just the way that the ball is moved around that is different. Under AVB we were slow, indecisive and backward thinking. Play was at low tempo and predictable. The opposite of that can still be seen as possession football, it is just in the form of quick thinking, one touch passing with lots of movement. Now that is something I would like to see at the Lane.

Japhet · May 15, 2014

Mister Jez said:
Daniel had a 5 year plan for AVB, not his fault AVB had a brain-fart of epic proportions.

Don't you mean 'immense dimension'.

Sum Monsterism · May 15, 2014

the longer the Poch announcement isn't announced for, the less likely we are to hear it?

wasn't it Monday that all "went well"? Today is err... **looks at calendar, counts on fingers** ...ages later.

Dr Know · May 15, 2014

Gb160 said:
I agree with the majority of this, but FDB has stated he wouldn't want to manage a club like Barca.....

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...er-league-move
"I would not go to Barcelona. It is very difficult to be a coach there. What can you teach players like Messi and Iniesta"

Now I'm not too sure how to look at this as I think any manager should be looking to manage at the very top of their profession. Could be read as a lack of confidence or just a guy that knows his limits

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