Kendall
Well-Known Member
- Feb 8, 2007
- 38,502
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Other reasons being we look like a shower and he has dodged a bullet?
The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - POST MORTEM EDITION
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
Other reasons being we look like a shower and he has dodged a bullet?
I don't assume any of that. What I'm asking is why are we selling our two most creative midfielders without a replacement agreed? I don't care if it was Moutinho or someone else we wanted to get in. If we couldn't have sorted Moutinho out a month ago we should've found someone else. That's my point. Joe Allen and Nuri Sahin were there all summer long for us as options. Neither are as good as Modric, but a hell of a lot better than playing Livermore and Sandro together.
In the first half against Norwich the people who had the most passes in our team was our defenders back and forth to each other, not our midfield players who barely had a pass between them. It was embarrassing and completely predictable after selling the only two midfielders we had who would come deep and demand the ball at every opportunity.
jimbo
Cabbages
- Dec 22, 2003
- 8,068
- 7,542
Rafa left for family reasons. I think that's fair enough, but it doesn't mean we wanted or planned to sell him. When we signed Sigurdsson quite a few felt he was the replacement. Similar with Dembele and Modric really. Let's see what the team looks like when all the players we've got have trained together, see what the team looks like when there's a fully fit squad to choose from, and talk again then.
Here's my round up of the transfer window:
It's over, move on, get over it.
But seriously! How are we ever gonna compete with the Zenits and Anzhis of the footballing world?
MY TAKE ON THE MOUTINHO DEAL AND HOW HULK FITS IN
Porto must have been in close contact with Zenit throughout our attempts to buy Moutinho, knowing there was a big bid coming or on the table. Probably said to Zenit 'we'll only sell one of them' then leaked or got us to leak the 'agreed fee' on Moutinho at lunchtime, sent his agent to come around and eat sandwiches at the Lodge and waited.
Zenit panic thinking they'll miss out on their man, who they can clearly afford and intend to buy and started serious negotiation.
My money is on their bid coming in about 9pm Friday evening.
Porto jerk us around by asking for a higher fee cos of '3rd party rights'. Fucking Zahavi is sat in the room to ensure that not too much gets agreed and is probably advising Porto on the Hulk deal. JJ said at lunchtime on the 31st 'someone is on their way!! Mr Joao Moutinho' We know that's good info. He's not gonna intentionally hang himself out to dry. Is Moutinho 'on his 'way?' No he isn't! He's on a flight with his Porto teammates! Moutinho NEVER EVEN GETS SENT TO LONDON, but sure, we're negotiating and Zenit aren't necessarily gonna know that means the deal isn't gonna happen.
3 days later, Hulk goes through?
JJ alluded to the fact that it was 'stuff you wouldnt believe'.
POTL said: 'Player wages stopped us getting it over the line' ie. Zahavi conveniently moves the goalposts and sufficiently stalled.
I'm afraid we've been done up like kippers. Be thankful we had time to organise Dempsey amongst all this shit and mourn not the loss of Moutinho, he was never coming. And stop blaming Levy. It's not his fault! He might think he's a big fish but i'm afraid he was in with the crocodiles on this one.
Anyone wondering how Zahavi could fit in, his wiki is gold: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pini_Zahavi
Remember Hulk is double transfer fee, double agency fee, double everything that Moutinho might have been.
££££$$$$ etc
NOT ITK JUST A THEORY
I dont think this would be too far from the truth.
Fooked over by dodgy Russian money again
dazzabee
Well-Known Member
- Jun 30, 2012
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I dont think this would be too far from the truth.
Fooked over by dodgy Russian money again
So, if, as you say, Levy got "fooked by dodgy Russian money" and that we had no chance of signing Mouts then what happened to our 'great' chairmans plan b? Dembele is a completely different player to Luka and some may argue a replacement for VDV. Sigs was always a sqaud buy and one for the future. Demsey a bargain buy based on what he did last year. All 3 great signings i might add.
Last year and indeed the season before that too, we have been crying out for a striker. We also knew for a long, long time Luka was going. So, if Levy, the 'great' chairman you elude to he is, why did he allow himself to be caught up with "the crocodiles" and not have these players lined up?
So basically we should sign players based on who is easiest to get rather than who the manager wants or who is best for the team ?
Indisguise
Well-Known Member
- Jun 9, 2012
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Hmm, I'm still pretty much pro Levy, but his inability to bring in a new striker has lost him a lot of kudos in my eyes. I don't buy all the Machiavellian conspiracy theories about the Moutinho deal etc., but I am pissed off with him for not having got some kind of striker deal sorted out. 3 seasons without a decent new striker is ridiculous. Having seen de Jong and Rondon go for the kind of money that wouldn't have necessitated Levy structuring the deal into the next century, I'm unimpressed that he didn't take a chance on one of them or a similar striker of that ilk. I still think he's the best man to do the job, but he needs to sort this out. That said, he's had a very rough time of it over the last fews months (personal life) but has still managed to do a very good job with all the other signings, so I forgive him. For his own sake, I hope he resolves the problem in January.
Bit pissed off today because of the rumours circulating about Leandro and Manure. Hope it's BS.
Bit pissed off today because of the rumours circulating about Leandro and Manure. Hope it's BS.
SpurSince57
Well-Known Member
- Jan 20, 2006
- 45,213
- 8,229
Taking Rafa first, he has been replaced. We can argue over whether he's been adequately replaced, or whether the replacement is Sig or Dempsey (or Dembélé for that matter), but replaced he has been. And I'll depart from the party line and say I think this family business is just a convenient pretext; I don't believe he ever figured in AVB's plans. It was barely a month ago that he was saying: "My place is at Spurs. I want to win the title with this club."
Does that sound vaguely familiar?
One thing we do know for a fact is that AVB really, really wanted Moutinho, and despite all the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories being put forward, it seems that Levy really did try to make it happen. The problem was, we couldn't start serious negotiations until the Modric deal was done and we had the money, and Modric wasn't sorted until Monday. Why didn't we sign Sahin? AVB didn't want him/he didn't want us/both. Allen? Levy would probably have preferred him, so one has to assume that AVB didn't fancy him.
SpurSince57
Well-Known Member
- Jan 20, 2006
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Well we got Ade, and Dempsey presumably counts as a striker, although I'd classify him as an AM. AVB seems to think we only need three, and unless he's bullshitting like crazy appears to think even more highly of JD than Harry did.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
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Totally agree.
On strikers, for me its simple - We are not ever going paying top dollar until we have more revenue. These top strikers will go to the Chelsea's and City's of this world - if not, they will go to Russia just like Hulk, who incidelety some on here really believed we 'could' sign.
Let's get some reality here people. We are in the Arsenal budgetary world not Chelsea's.
All the strikers that we have been 'rumoured' to be after will want wages outside or close to braking our wage budget.
Its why Ade, Dempsey and Defoe is a good attack at a sensible budget. Remember these guys wont be on peanuts -
ExpatFan
Well-Known Member
- May 11, 2005
- 1,878
- 1,680
I know I sound like an old record stuck in a groove but this is the point, made by several of you, with which I completely agree. Knowing Modrich (sic) was leaving, Levy's Plan A was clearly Moutinho, given Mouts was also AVB's first choice. But who was Plan B? Or Plan C? Or even fecking Plan D? Sigi? No. Dembele? No (we apparently carried on trying - desperately - for Moutinho after we bought MD). So who then?
That's what I find so unprofessional about this saga. I'm not disputing that we've brought in some excellent players. But the fact is we have lost our TWO most creative players, one of whom Levy KNEW was going. Did he put all his eggs in the Moutinho basket? I don't know, of course, but I tell you what: it bloody looks like it. And if you do that, you have to know 100% - (not 99% "but the goalposts moved at 10pm on the last day of the transfer window") - that's 100% that it's a "done deal."
I'm sorry my 999th post is a negative and depressing one and I hope my 1000th will be more positive. But I genuinely felt in the days leading up to last Friday that Levy's renowned "brinkmanship" was nothing of the sort and, not for the first time under his stewardship, it would end in an almighty "fuck-up." And I am sincerely sorry to have been right.
Hoopspur
You have insufficient privileges to reply here!
- Jun 28, 2012
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Not sure all this post rationalisation of what went right and what went wrong is doing anyone any good. It's all based on conjecture, theory and rumour. I suspect the club will never come and and say why and everything will obviously have a positive spin.
In terms of ITK, well every piece of ITK we receive, whether from JJ, POTL or whoever will have that person's (the provider and not necessarily the ITKer) own bent on it. Everyone will have their own take on it and there cannot be a piece of ITK that is not biased in some way. Every employee of an organisation will have their own particular view of that they work for and this will be passed on to the ITKer. For better or for worse and depending on what side of the bed they got out of that morning.
At the moment the only thing is for the club to drive forward together to try and make this new system and formation work. At least for a decent amount of time. Anything else is destructive.
Personally I welcomed PoTL's piece. At least he/she took the time to write it. It might well be soundbites for the masses, but at least wasn't destructive. I'm looking forward to the Reading game and find this International break an unwelcome distraction.
(Had to use it - just because it was there!)
In terms of ITK, well every piece of ITK we receive, whether from JJ, POTL or whoever will have that person's (the provider and not necessarily the ITKer) own bent on it. Everyone will have their own take on it and there cannot be a piece of ITK that is not biased in some way. Every employee of an organisation will have their own particular view of that they work for and this will be passed on to the ITKer. For better or for worse and depending on what side of the bed they got out of that morning.
At the moment the only thing is for the club to drive forward together to try and make this new system and formation work. At least for a decent amount of time. Anything else is destructive.
Personally I welcomed PoTL's piece. At least he/she took the time to write it. It might well be soundbites for the masses, but at least wasn't destructive. I'm looking forward to the Reading game and find this International break an unwelcome distraction.
(Had to use it - just because it was there!)
Greenspur
Very old member
- Sep 1, 2004
- 2,681
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No. Maltesers have a less fattening centre.
Indisguise
Well-Known Member
- Jun 9, 2012
- 7,996
- 23,386
I'm very happy with Ade and Dempsey, but I only like JD on the basis that he's deployed as a supersub and not a starter. AVB tows the party line in public, but I'd be very surprised to find out that in reality he'd be happy with JD in any other capacity. If we've been putting in bids for people like Llorente and Damiao then it speaks volumes that AVB and DL, let alone the rest of us, feel that another big striker is needed.
Dempsey's interesting isn't he? Definitely an AM. Works hard and by all accounts has enough drive, determination and character to do really well for us. Hopefully, he'll rub off on the people around him. Our lads appear to be lacking a bit of confidendence at the moment but I'm confident that they'll pick themselves up.
Indisguise
Well-Known Member
- Jun 9, 2012
- 7,996
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I'm pretty sure that DL is more than happy to pay a decent price for the right man, but it's almost always the wages that bring everything to a grinding halt.
EnfieldYiddo
Silence
- Aug 6, 2012
- 15,505
- 26,871
Hulk going?
Clearly implies Porto needed money...
Likely to sell their second best player Moutinho now? Doubt it unfortunately.
Also saying Manc's in for Damiao possibly in January. Oh Levy...
Clearly implies Porto needed money...
Likely to sell their second best player Moutinho now? Doubt it unfortunately.
Also saying Manc's in for Damiao possibly in January. Oh Levy...
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
- 9,313
To be honest. I think we do very well considering the type of monies on offer out there.
But all this bitching about who we got or didn't get the trotting out all utter bile about Levy, just reaffirmed my views on some of our fans. They boo at our team and slag the chairman off it just par for the course sadly.
There will be bids and enquiries for all sorts of player during any given window. Win some loose some.
I'm wondering (and it is off topic) who chose Gylfi?
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
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brasil_spur
SC Supporter
- Aug 25, 2006
- 12,723
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Most people seem to consider Dembele an appropriate replacement.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
- 9,313
I think Dembele was a great buy. I was not his biggest fan. I tended to watch Dempsey when I watched Fulham.
Funny how "our new partners" RM were looking at Dembele according to the Spanish press.
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