The myth of the 60.000 seater

[leffe186]

Look, many things you (DD1882) said were true, and ARE factors in the lack of atmosphere in games. But they are not the only factors, and they are almost all out of our control, so don't get hung up on them. Look at what we CAN do as fans. It's a cop-out to say that Ledley was the last bastion of homegrown players. Just look at all the young ones coming through. Andros Townsend was born in Chingford. Tom Carroll was born in Watford. Jake Livermore went to Enfield Grammar FFS. Is that not homegrown enough?

We do go to football partly to be entertained, but if you've been going long enough, you know that you often have to make a fair bit of that entertainment yourself. Was it Besiktas a few years ago, who created that amazing atmosphere in the UEFA? I wouldn't say I go to be entertained, frankly, I go to support my club and out of obligation. Sure, I pay money, but I know that I'm part of the show.

 

[teok]

Therein lies the problem.

If somebody goes for that reason then he is a spectator who follows Spurs, who begrudges the price of the ticket and feels that it gives him the 'right' to be entertained. I would advise that person to spend his money going to some event where his entertainment is guaranteed, not to waste it at a football match. If he's a season ticket holder, he should re-think where to spend his 'entertainment' budget and not renew it; somebody on the waiting list will value it more. He can always get a Sky subscription.

A fan goes because he can go. A fan goes because he wants and/or needs to be there when Spurs play and he'll sing his lungs out to support the team. A fan has the attitude of the 1882 movement. He 'loves the shirt' and gives his all for it every time he goes to a match.

Modern football isn't like this though. In a 60k seater stadium there is room for every sort of fan, that is the beauty of it. Nobody should be discouraged from going to watch spurs, they might not sing loudly but that ticket money adds up.

The gooners make a fucking killing (it's actually pretty obscene), we really need try and at least get near what they are doing.

It doesn't have to be one sort of fan vs another, get them all in.

 

[sammy j]

Not interested in the Europa cup , be nice to win but couldn't care less to be honest. League games I would go every one at home and some away . Tottenham need tube in the champions league or trying our best to get into it .I've seen us win the the europa league twice and great nights they where but the games moved on . And bales back in two weeks come on you Lillywhites

 

[leffe186]

Just to clarify, DD1882, I didn't really want to jump down your throat. There is room at Spurs for everyone - well there certainly should be in the new Stadium. Some people just aren't interested in singing, or jumping up and down, or standing; some people aren't physically capable of doing that. I feel stupid singing on my own at matches (as I have certainly done before) and need a few drinks to get started, plus my voice always gives out before half-time. The point is that we cannot afford the attitude that it's up to the team to get us going, and certainly not to propagate that attitude. A good atmosphere has an impact on what happens on the pitch, and also off the pitch, making it more likely that people will pay good money to come back again.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Therein lies the problem.

If somebody goes for that reason then he is a spectator who follows Spurs, who begrudges the price of the ticket and feels that it gives him the 'right' to be entertained. I would advise that person to spend his money going to some event where his entertainment is guaranteed, not to waste it at a football match. If he's a season ticket holder, he should re-think where to spend his 'entertainment' budget and not renew it; somebody on the waiting list will value it more. He can always get a Sky subscription.

A fan goes because he can go. A fan goes because he wants and/or needs to be there when Spurs play and he'll sing his lungs out to support the team. A fan has the attitude of the 1882 movement. He 'loves the shirt' and gives his all for it every time he goes to a match.

oh ok. I'll stop going then. Thanks for clearing that up. I can't be a fan for requesting entertainment. Ridiculous post. I am a fan. Who has been supporting spurs through thick and thin for 30 years. I come on spurs websites and talk about spurs every day. But I'm not a "fan" as I want to be entertained?? We have never won a league in my lifetime. We have had the odd cup success In that time. I still spend my life following spurs but because I want entertainment I'm not a fan. I cheer the team as loudly as any other spurs fan. As a fan. So please don't lecture me about being a fan. Or not. For asking to be entertained. The atmosphere was better last year because we were playing "entertaining football". The loudest cheers are generally this year reserved for bale. Who excites by playing entertaining football. I have t said in any post that we sit there in silence. But to dismiss my post for asking to be entertained is ridiculous.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Just to clarify, DD1882, I didn't really want to jump down your throat. There is room at Spurs for everyone - well there certainly should be in the new Stadium. Some people just aren't interested in singing, or jumping up and down, or standing; some people aren't physically capable of doing that. I feel stupid singing on my own at matches (as I have certainly done before) and need a few drinks to get started, plus my voice always gives out before half-time. The point is that we cannot afford the attitude that it's up to the team to get us going, and certainly not to propagate that attitude. A good atmosphere has an impact on what happens on the pitch, and also off the pitch, making it more likely that people will pay good money to come back again.

I would love it to be like the arsenal game every time we play at home and I totally agree we as fans have a responsibility. We just haven't produced the type of football we did last year and that is clearly reflected in the fans reactions. I said in a post earlier in the season that this is a transitional period. AVB hadn't got the players to play the style he wants and it will take time. I still sing my heart out. I'm not a spectator as others have said. But it's frustrating at spurs at the moment. We just aren't convincing enough at the moment. We are controlled and this doesn't make for great viewing.

 

[leffe186]

Modern football isn't like this though. In a 60k seater stadium there is room for every sort of fan, that is the beauty of it. Nobody should be discouraged from going to watch spurs, they might not sing loudly but that ticket money adds up.

The gooners make a fucking killing (it's actually pretty obscene), we really need try and at least get near what they are doing.

It doesn't have to be one sort of fan vs another, get them all in.

Absolutely, and I echo that above. It's just that we can't absolve ourselves of responsibility. If you're going to complain about something, you need to make sure that you've done everything in your power first. If you're a quiet, casual fan, who doesn't sing, then don't complain about the lack of atmosphere. If you feel you can't accept the lack of atmosphere, then contact a Spurs fan group or the club, or the 1882 guys, and ask if there's anything you can do. Maybe you can distribute flyers. Maybe you can tell everyone you know about the next reserve match. Maybe you can help lobby the club for lower prices for children. I don't know, but there's a decent chance the supporters clubs do. I want everyone to be able to go, and encouraging the crowd to take responsibility for making the atmosphere themselves as much as possible is part of that.

 

[NEVILLEB]

It's more a myth because it's a promise that's been unfulfilled.

 

[leffe186]

oh ok. I'll stop going then. Thanks for clearing that up. I can't be a fan for requesting entertainment. Ridiculous post. I am a fan. Who has been supporting spurs through thick and thin for 30 years. I come on spurs websites and talk about spurs every day. But I'm not a "fan" as I want to be entertained?? We have never won a league in my lifetime. We have had the odd cup success In that time. I still spend my life following spurs but because I want entertainment I'm not a fan. I cheer the team as loudly as any other spurs fan. As a fan. So please don't lecture me about being a fan. Or not. For asking to be entertained. The atmosphere was better last year because we were playing "entertaining football". The loudest cheers are generally this year reserved for bale. Who excites by playing entertaining football. I have t said in any post that we sit there in silence. But to dismiss my post for asking to be entertained is ridiculous.

I think the answer is somewhere in between both of you. I think the issue with your post may have been a semantic one - you originally said that you went to be entertained, not that you asked to be entertained, which are different viewpoints. I certainly ask to be entertained when I go, but if that doesn't happen I recognize that (a) I may need to make my own entertainment by, say, singing, and (b) that my support may actually have a tangible effect on what happens on the pitch. In truth, I love football, and so I'm actually entertained just by watching any game, but I get that that's not the same for everyone. We're all Spurs fans, and the more, the merrier.

The other problem is in saying that we are not totally to blame for the lack of atmosphere. Ultimately we are, whether we like it or not. Good football n the pitch certainly makes it easier for us, but it IS down to us as fans. There's just no getting away from it. What matters is not apportioning blame, but looking for ways to change it.

 

[Ironskullll]

There's a difference though between a quiet ground and a bad atmosphere. When the atmosphere is poisonous it hurts the players, damages morale and so on, and often it's coming from people who aren't particularly good judges anyway. A quiet ground is a bit different. Just a thought.

 

[danielneeds]

You do realise that the biggest driving factor in the new stadium is not the 16000 or so normal seats, it's the 4000 or so extra corporate ones, the extra restaurants and bars where Levy can take away as much of their vast sums of cash as possible. Emirates generates something like 40% of match day revenue in corporate. It's a cash cow.

 

[ItsBoris]

You do realise that the biggest driving factor in the new stadium is not the 16000 or so normal seats, it's the 4000 or so extra corporate ones, the extra restaurants and bars where Levy can take away as much of their vast sums of cash as possible. Emirates generates something like 40% of match day revenue in corporate. It's a cash cow.

Yeah that's true, I think maybe people don't realize because the club always spins it as 'we have a gillion people on the waiting list for season tickets, we need a new stadium.' Of course all the money is in the corporate seats.

 

[shelfboy68]

You do realise that the biggest driving factor in the new stadium is not the 16000 or so normal seats, it's the 4000 or so extra corporate ones, the extra restaurants and bars where Levy can take away as much of their vast sums of cash as possible. Emirates generates something like 40% of match day revenue in corporate. It's a cash cow.

This is very true but even with extra revenue I dont think levy will spend any more on players in the future but we will still get the usual window garbage on deadline day of failing to get our man.

 

[shelfmonkey]

Pricing is the key (along with a good team, of course). I do agree that we're not going to fill it very often, but if we offer excellent rates to younger fans it will pay back in the long term.

I would love to have season ticket again, but I gave mine up 10yrs ago as I couldn't afford it, I can't afford even the odd game these days, so I'm pretty sure I won't be going when (IF) the stadium is built!! So unless there is a major upturn in the economy, and remember when the economy is doing well interest rates and taxes go up ( in one hand, out the other), then I can't see too many being able afford to go, apart from the increasing and, sadly, often silent prawn sandwich brigade.

 

[Barry Mead]

The selling of the executive boxes is the big money spinner and I guess the numbers would be expanded considerably, the question is though will they be able to fill it. Most companies taking up boxes aren't die hard fans just companies looking to have a facility to entertain clients and that is the key. If we have a team that entertains and is pretty succesful and gets regular CL football then we will fill the boxes, if we don't then we will have a lot of empty ones and that will dent the income projections

I also think the season ticket demand is not as straightforward as it appears, because giving up a ticket means you go back to the end of the queue, so people who may prefer to come to selective games hold on to it when if they thought they could get tickets when they wanted because the ground had plenty of capacity then a number of existing season ticket holders and a number on the list might prefer to be able to pick and choose games rather than effectively be obliged to pay to watch all

 

[E17yid]

I don't get the whole "I go to football to be entertained" line. Nor do I get the same BS whining from some fans, usually directed at Billie G and Ade.

Perhaps we should keep Russell Crowe on stand buy so that whenever these people get a bit bored he can run onto the pitch in full gladiator get up, cut Ade's head off and shout

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

 

[vegassd]

I also think the season ticket demand is not as straightforward as it appears, because giving up a ticket means you go back to the end of the queue, so people who may prefer to come to selective games hold on to it when if they thought they could get tickets when they wanted because the ground had plenty of capacity then a number of existing season ticket holders and a number on the list might prefer to be able to pick and choose games rather than effectively be obliged to pay to watch all

I thought that you didn't lose your place in the queue. The ticket just gets offered down the line, but refusing a ST doesn't forfeit your place in line. Could be wrong though.

Whilst we don't "need" a new stadium I think that having one would give us much more potential to grow. If there was more price flexibility on the low category games and there were more direct public transport links I reckon we would still get a lot of people through the door.

It would be interesting to come up with some way of limiting the capacity for certain games to retain a decent atmosphere. Maybe hang huge banners of various Spurs legends around the upper tier or something so that the stadium looks cool and still feels full.

 

[Misfit]

This is very true but even with extra revenue I dont think levy will spend any more on players in the future but we will still get the usual window garbage on deadline day of failing to get our man.

Everything the man has done in the past shows that up to be the bullshit that it is.

Apart from that, spot on.

 

[Lighty64]

If we fill it with an additional 30,000 of the kind of idiots who were sat behind me in the Paxton on Thursday night it will be a disaster.... the type who think it's ok to boo our players and call 99% of them c*nts...

It's going to make for a wonderful atmosphere.

you must of sat near me cause it done my brain in.

what we need to hope for is all those that travel to away games, get their season tickets all in the same place.

 

[Bobbins]

The only way we'll fill a stadium of 50k+ size is if we offer various concessions, cheap tickets for kids, family day type things etc. Even for some Premiership games I think we might struggle. It's definitely not as difficult to get tickets these days as it was even a couple of years ago.

So many people seem to have this sense of entitlement these days that a lot of people who were desperate for tickets a few years ago aren't too bothered these days unless it's Real Madrid or something. That adventure in the CL made some people expect that every week, for some reason.

Still, I can't see the club actually offering any cheaper tickets, I can actually see them increasing prices, justified by 'paying for the stadium'.