The Lennon has no end product myth. (Assists/goals)

[DC_Boy]

Berbatov
19 goals.
14 assists

Keane
20 Goals
10 assists

All competitions.

Hi lennon As I say I counted 17 - so I'm not gonna change my opinion unless I see the games where they got 14 from - and then see which ones I think they they missed - one might be the free kick Bale scored v Arsenal where Berbs won the free kick - to me that's an assist - maybe it isn't in the stats you have

If I get the time I'll post all Berb's assists on here - but am not promising

 

[BOLT]

Downing anyone?

 

[nicdic]

The site SS57 posted attributed Lennon with just 2 assists this season, an 12 in the last 3 seasons. Pretty certain thats wrong.

 

[DC_Boy]

The site SS57 posted attributed Lennon with just 2 assists this season, an 12 in the last 3 seasons. Pretty certain thats wrong.

yep nicdic - pretty often sites have diferent criteria for assists -

 

[guiltyparty]

As much as I agree with the general tone of this thread, stats don't tell the whole story at all. They never do. Unless you're just trying to prove something statistical, which this isn't.

Absolutely. I mean, this is 'assists' not 'crosses', which is what the poster seems to be trying to prove wrong. An assist can be a lot of things - a throughball, a mis-hit shot that falls to someone, etc. Not quite as simple as you're making it out to be

 

[chinaman]

Lennon has improved this season. One thing that has perhaps been restricting his effectiveness is that he has to play with so many different RBs this season. One case in point was the first couple of games Hutton was playing, the two of them seemed to be getting into each other's way a few times.

 

[Kendall]

As much as I agree with the general tone of this thread, stats don't tell the whole story at all. They never do. Unless you're just trying to prove something statistical, which this isn't.

Yea, they don't tell you that Lennon's link up play is vital to the way we attack aswell as his direct assists and goals.

 

[AngerManagement]

next season he and Hutton will form a strong partnership (I am certain).

When Bale returns to the left we will regain our balance and what with Ramos having more time to work with the squad and bringing in some more of his own signings im confident next year will be much improved.

And back to my origional point (that I forgot to make) Lennon will be a big part of that, he is a key players of ours already and the most exciting player we have on the ball (in terms of dribbling).

Peoples expectations have been raised for him, so now he is suffering from people looking for negatives in his game instead of marvelling at the positives from such a young and exciting prospect.

He is still young and still improving, he is already a star and Im sure he will go on to be a world beater.

 

[Adam456]

As much as I agree with the general tone of this thread, stats don't tell the whole story at all. They never do. Unless you're just trying to prove something statistical, which this isn't.

For any question with any kind of subjective element you can say that but with many, if you define the measures and set some rules it is possible to come up with reasonable answers.

I think this is far less subjective (and thus measurable) than asking the 'who is the best player' question from players in any position but you need to go into a lot more detail to reach conclusions from it.

In principle you could define a winger's end product as, at least, say, the following:

Goals scored
Direct Assists
Key Involvement in goal

or you could go further and say that a player being sent off is a product or NOT conceding or a free kick as it's more time in the oponent's half and less in yours. e.g:

Red cards awarded after foul on player
Yellow cards awarded after foul on player
Free kicks awarded in opposition 3rd
Double-marked during build up to a goal
Goals conceded from assists from player's wing
Goals conceded from assists from player's wing

Now agree some firm rules (e.g. double-marked has to be two players within 5 yards for 5 seconds during last 20 seconds before a goal). apply some weightings (in rough order of above i.e. goals 10pts, assists and key invove 8 pts, Red card 8pts etc) and calculate

Easy ! Ahem

 

[Stoof]

As much as I agree with the general tone of this thread, stats don't tell the whole story at all. They never do. Unless you're just trying to prove something statistical, which this isn't.

It shows that he's set up more goals than any other member of our midfield.

If the story is "Lennon has no end product" then this successfully disproves.

Sorry to pick up on it Jacko, but I think this thread has merit.

 

[ChRiStOpHe]

Sorry to pick up on it Jacko, but I think this thread has merit.

Me too.

Great post Mr Lennon man :up:

On a side note after seeing Bentley's name, I went through a phase of championing a good few players about 6 months ago, and some of them are really proving me right. Bentley's stats from a wide position speak for themselves, and Alan Hutton has since won himself a big money move to the Premiership. Now to pretend I never wanted Ryan Nelsen and Scott Brown (for over £10m!)

 

[Stoof]

Absolutely. I mean, this is 'assists' not 'crosses', which is what the poster seems to be trying to prove wrong. An assist can be a lot of things - a throughball, a mis-hit shot that falls to someone, etc. Not quite as simple as you're making it out to be

So, gp, what are you trying to argue here? His crosses aren't good enough?

People say he has "no end product" for me that means he'd have stats like Zokora's - instead he has [bearing in mind I'm morgaging myself on those statistics having been correctly gleaned] set-up/crossed/'key' passed/through-balled (whatever word you want) 9 times. And scored 3 times himself. That's 12 instances of end product in my book.

 

[nidge]

Can I ask the thread starter where he got his info from?

The site SS57 posted attributed Lennon with just 2 assists this season, an 12 in the last 3 seasons. Pretty certain thats wrong.

Did you even read SS57 post. He said it is LEAGUE ONLY stats.

Looking on the PL site in the LEAGUE Lennon has 3 assists this season, 8 last season and 3 the season before that. Remember this is league stats only and is from the official PL website.

 

[Stoof]

Well he set-up Defoe at Manchester City, and Huddlestone against Middlesbrough in the Carling Cup.

Bent against Aalborg (although I'm still convinced it was a shot!)

Those are 3 more I can think of.

 

[ChRiStOpHe]

Well he set-up Defoe at Manchester City, and Huddlestone against Middlesbrough in the Carling Cup.

Bent against Aalborg (although I'm still convinced it was a shot!)

Those are 3 more I can think of.

It might not be the traditional assist, but he was the player who picked out Hudd in the cup final for the penalty. Stats don't normally give credit for things like this, but Stophe does

 

[lennon321g]

Look at the bottom of the game log.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/gamelog?id=35866&cc=5739

 

[nidge]

What about Kalou he plays wide for Chelsea and he has 8 assists in the League. (Not sure how many in all comps) Petrov has 8 assists in the league as well.

 

[tobi]

Interesting stat there, if he starts driving down the outside more often then he'll easily create more chances.

 

[bubble07]

Jest compared Lennon with Hleb who scum fans wank over and they have both scored the same amount of goals but lennon has assisted more. Thats something to throw back at them!

 

[Legend10]

i also think that Lennon's assists would improve if we as a team were to attacxk the near post better when he has it wide.

He has put in some excellent balls this season but you can't hold him responsible if nobody gets acroos the near post.

Most times wide players when they are beating a defender to get in a cross will look to just put the ball into an area of danger as they don't have time to pick out a team mate. If he delivers into an area of danger then Lennon has done his job, if nobody then gets on the end of it the other players haven't done theirs.