People may disagree with this.

[Shanks]

Seems, you ask a reasonable question to understand the logic, and the fella goes rating about it.

Post up a thread like this, be prepared to be questioned - wouldn't be so bad if someone was being a twat, but most of the replies are reasonably thought out.

It's quite logical, to maintain CL football, we need to finish top 4, or win the CL.

It's quite illogical to give up the CL when we've worked so hard to get it, to focus on getting it again next year....???

Would we be willing to sacrifice a coca cola cup run to concentrate on the CL/League? Sacrifice an FA Cup run?
Sacrifice a CL run?

We are in 4 competitions, we should prepare accordingly for each competition, which will most likely be a logical appraoch by playing squad players in the 2 domestic trophies, with full strength or near as damn it, in both the league and CL. Bear in mind, we had EL football last year and still managed 3rd... thats about as prepared as you can be..

Then, if you take the thinking further.

How would the players react to a team that has CL aspirations, only to give up once you get there... hardly a selling point for up and coming youngsters or already made players.

 

[Dougal]

Probably best winning it first before we turn our nose up at it

Absolutely. But we've outgrown only showing an interest up to the quarters. If we need to drop it at that point then don't bother at all! Alternatively go all out and win the thing at the potential expense of everything else. Wouldn't we all love to see that silverware back at The Lane?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Whats the point of a top 4 finish if we just give up on the CL as soon as we get there?

He's not saying "give up", he's saying the League should be the priority. And he's right, every season, even for ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Bayern.

We need to make an impression on the Champions League. Winning it is a dream but competing in it helps the club to grow. The club has outgrown the Europa League unless we were to reach the semis of that at the very least. It's all progress then.

No, qualifying for it regularly helps us grow, getting to the QF's once every 6 years won't help us grow nearly as much as being in the group stage every year for 6 years.

If we don't put the required importance on the CL we'll end up dropping back into the Europa League which is the nightmare scenario - not only to be back in that competition but can you imagine the ridicule from other clubs if we qualified for the CL and were so bad we still ultimately ended up in the EL? Awful.

I was glad to see Poch pick his strongest possible team last night.

Completely wrong. If we don't put the required importance on the league we will end up dropping back into the Europa (or no European football). The only way we can insure CL through the CL is winning it, which is virtually impossible.

 

[Basil Brush]

Seems, you ask a reasonable question to understand the logic, and the fella goes rating about it.

Post up a thread like this, be prepared to be questioned - wouldn't be so bad if someone was being a twat, but most of the replies are reasonably thought out.

It's quite logical, to maintain CL football, we need to finish top 4, or win the CL.

It's quite illogical to give up the CL when we've worked so hard to get it, to focus on getting it again next year....???

Would we be willing to sacrifice a coca cola cup run to concentrate on the CL/League? Sacrifice an FA Cup run?
Sacrifice a CL run?

We are in 4 competitions, we should prepare accordingly for each competition, which will most likely be a logical appraoch by playing squad players in the 2 domestic trophies, with full strength or near as damn it, in both the league and CL. Bear in mind, we had EL football last year and still managed 3rd... thats about as prepared as you can be..

Then, if you take the thinking further.

How would the players react to a team that has CL aspirations, only to give up once you get there... hardly a selling point for up and coming youngsters or already made players.

Can you tell me where i said give up the champions league or anything similar to your points?

Please read before you post.

 

[Dougal]

No, qualifying for it regularly helps us grow, getting to the QF's once every 6 years won't help us grow nearly as much as being in the group stage every year for 6 years.

Either way is putting too many eggs in one basket. Sure, be seen to be a regular Champions League team at the group stage level. But could you really live with going out at this stage every season? Where we currently stand, making it out of the group is creating an impression. Everything else is making up the numbers. Look where the Gooners stand. You know what they will do every season because they aren't making any forward moves.

 

[Shanks]

Can you tell me where i said give up the champions league?

Whilst you didn't use the exact words..

I believe the champions league is of "secondary" importance to this year. The league is by far the more important.

Champions league is still important but our league position is more important.

2 main reasons being

1) We cant win the champions league (yet). However it is great experience for our youngish squad.
2) We need to concentrate on getting top 4 in the league again with a lot of sides so much stronger this year. Then we can look at actually being competitive in the champions league next year.


Lastly this is my personal opinion so take how you want. We need to avoid the terrible comp that is the Europa League at all costs.

Give me top 4 in the league this year and a cups run and i would bite your hand off.

Is my opinion too spurs negative?

Your last sentence - Top 4 and a cup run gives the perception that you are saying, don't worry about the CL next year as we have no chance.

Give me a knockout stage of CL, top 4 position and a cup run, and I'll bite your hand off.

League is the most important, it doesn't even need discussing.

 

[Bobbins]

Completely wrong. If we don't put the required importance on the league we will end up dropping back into the Europa (or no European football). The only way we can insure CL through the CL is winning it, which is virtually impossible.

Eh? How is that related? At no point did I say we shouldn't be aiming for CL qualification through the league? I simply said the CL should be equally a priority (as it is for every club that competes in it - they sack the cups off instead which we will also no doubt do) so as to avoid us dropping back into the EL.

 

[Basil Brush]

Your last sentence - Top 4 and a cup run gives the perception that you are saying, don't worry about the CL next year as we have no chance.

Mate, i wont give you any more ratings but can you not understand my points?

Top 4 is champions league next year and a year of experience under our belt.

 

[Mullers]

I think we have the squad to cope with both competitions, so I don't think it needs to take a back seat.

I don't agree with the format of the E L but if we do I want us to do as well as we can, win it if possible.
I don't think we are above that competition at all. Seville have a better claim to being above that competition as they have won it multiple times, we haven't been past the quarter final stage and this is only the second time in the CL.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Either way is putting too many eggs in one basket. Sure, be seen to be a regular Champions League team at the group stage level. But could you really live with going out at this stage every season? Where we currently stand, making it out of the group is creating an impression. Everything else is making up the numbers. Look where the Gooners stand. You know what they will do every season because they aren't making any forward moves.

That's a really odd set of statements Dougal, none of them make any sense to me. How do we "be seen to be a regular CL team at Group stage level" ? You either are or you're not.

It's not just about "making an impression" it's about cold hard reality. The reality is we will grow much bigger and faster as a club by being in the CL regularly than if we reached the knockout stage once every 6 years.

Look at where the Gooners stand ? You mean, having CL football every year for the last 20 years, watching the likes of Barca, RM, Bayern, Dortmund, every season, at their 60k stadium, buying players like Sanchez and Ozil, playing a great brand of football for two decades, finishing above us every year for the last two decades ? Jeez man, that must be awful compared to the glory we've enjoyed ?

 

[Dougal]

Mate, i wont give you any more ratings but can you not understand my points?

Top 4 is champions league next year and a year of experience under our belt.

This is also true 12 months ago. And in 12 months time. Then you keep putting it off for years. And you die.

 

[Dougal]

That's a really odd set of statements Dougal, none of them make any sense to me. How do "be seen to be a regular CL team at Group stage level" ? You either are or you're not.

It's not just about "making an impression" it's about cold hard reality. The reality is we will grow much bigger and faster as a club by being in the CL regularly than if we reached the knockout stage once every 6 years.

Look at where the Gooners stand ? You mean, having CL football every year for the last 20 years, watching the likes of Barca, RM, Bayern, Dortmund, every season, at their 60k stadium, buying players like Sanchez and Ozil, playing a great brand of football for two decades, finishing above us every year for the last two decades ? Jeez man, that must be awful compared to the glory we've enjoyed ?

And in the last 6 years they go out in the round of 16. In our 1 year we got further than they did in 6. They hit a ceiling and continue to hit it. I suggest we attempt to break through ours. Some might even attribute an 'echoes of glory' quote to it.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Eh? How is that related? At no point did I say we shouldn't be aiming for CL qualification through the league? I simply said the CL should be equally a priority (as it is for every club that competes in it - they sack the cups off instead which we will also no doubt do) so as to avoid us dropping back into the EL.

You said "If we don't put the required importance on the CL we'll end up dropping back into the Europa League".

That doesn't make sense. Unless we win the CL it will have no bearing on us being in the Europa League, what we do in the league will.

The OP wasn't saying sack the CL, he was saying the league is still the priority. I wanted us to try and win the EL, and I want us to do as well as we can in the CL (as does the OP I'm sure) but the point he's making is, there will always have to be one priority for a club like us with our resources, there is for most clubs, even the uber clubs realise that the first priority every season is to make sure they are "in" the CL.

Playing two games a week will always mean that a priority is a reality. That doesn't mean we play the reserves in the CL, but it means that at some point cold hard decisions will have to be taken regarding rotation and when hey are, the OP (and I agree) is suggesting that the league will be the priority in those decisions.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And in the last 6 years they go out in the round of 16. In our 1 year we got further than they did in 6. They hit a ceiling and continue to hit it. I suggest we attempt to break through ours. Some might even attribute an 'echoes of glory' quote to it.

Only deluded romantic fools would say there have been more echoes of glory in our last 6 (or 20) years than Arsenal's.

A CL cup run to the QF once in the last 20 years is not breaking any ceilings. Arsenal have been outperforming us for two decades, and doing it in bloody style, and without a sugar daddy.

 

[Bobbins]

You said "If we don't put the required importance on the CL we'll end up dropping back into the Europa League".

That doesn't make sense. Unless we win the CL it will have no bearing on us being in the Europa League, what we do in the league will.

The OP wasn't saying sack the CL, he was saying the league is still the priority. I wanted us to try and win the EL, and I want us to do as well as we can in the CL (as does the OP I'm sure) but the point he's making is, there will always have to be one priority for a club like us with our resources, there is for most clubs, even the uber clubs realise that the first priority every season is to make sure they are "in" the CL.

Playing two games a week will always mean that a priority is a reality. That doesn't mean we play the reserves in the CL, but it means that at some point cold hard decisions will have to be taken regarding rotation and when hey are, the OP (and I agree) is suggesting that the league will be the priority in those decisions.

Sorry, I meant we'll drop into the EL VIA the CL, e.g. go out of the competition early and find ourselves back in the EL this season - which would be a complete disaster.

I didn't mean drop into the EL via final league placings.

Interestingly I think this is all a moot point anyway since I don't think we have a chance of finishing in the top 4 this season.

 

[Basil Brush]

Sorry, I meant we'll drop into the EL VIA the CL, e.g. go out of the competition early and find ourselves back in the EL this season - which would be a complete disaster.

I didn't mean drop into the EL via final league placings.

Interestingly I think this is all a moot point anyway since I don't think we have a chance of finishing in the top 4 this season.

Mate, i will have a bet with you we make top 4 this year.

I live in Australia so how about $20 Aud. Not sure what that is in Gbp.

Maybe this should be on pm.

 

[Dougal]

Only deluded romantic fools would say there have been more echoes of glory in our last 6 (or 20) years than Arsenal's.

A CL cup run to the QF once in the last 20 years is not breaking any ceilings. Arsenal have been outperforming us for two decades, and doing it in bloody style, and without a sugar daddy.

Hi, Deluded Romantic Fool. Pleased to meet ya
Not so long ago our ceiling had been 7th in the league for far too long. Then, painfully, 5th. Then 4th. Last season we finished 3rd. That's quite a bit of progress in 10 years after 15 years of barely approaching it. Arsenal are working on a higher plain during that time. One that is closer to glory. But their last 10 years compared to the previous 15? We have gone from being in a completely different category to them to competing with them, albeit still falling just short. Isn't it nice to extend past them occasionally and still have solid evidence that we are progressing?

Come on BC. Be romantic with me

 

[tanmilk]

I disagree

 

[Basil Brush]

Whilst you didn't use the exact words..

And i actually said nothing similar.

 

[Dougal]

And i actually said nothing similar.

What did you think people were going to disagree with then? To title a thread like this you have put people on the backfoot. If you give an impression based on that you'll have to be ready to explain yourself.