Why do we need a DOF?

[pablo73]

Before I start, I want to make clear this is not another Comolli bashing thread - there are enough of those already. The aim of this thread is to question Daniel Levy's assertion that we need a director of football to ensure stability.
He stated that with managers/head coaches coming and going, the only way to ensure stability with regards to the playing staff was to employ a director of football. We have changed managers but does the presence of a DOF ensure stability? of course not. Ramos has come in, assessed the playing staff and, by the sounds of it, will make major changes over the next few months. I know you can't believe everything you read but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that our squad will look very different by the end of August.

as far as I can tell, having a DOF simply muddies the waters and leaves us fans in the very frustrating position of not knowing who to blame when things go wrong - or indeed who to praise when things go right! I don't see the point in making Ramos one of the highest paid coaches in the world and not giving him free reign to bring in the players he wants. I'm not necessarily saying we need to abandon the idea of a DOF altogether but maybe downgrade the title to just cover bringing in young players and looking after the academy side of things, much as Arnesen now does as Chelsea. any thoughts?

 

[N10toN17]

Well said Pablo, I've personally thought the Dof role should be tweaked and should be responsible for reserve and youth team development, leaving the coach/ manager in full control of first team matters and no muddying of waters, unfortunately our chairman likes the muddy waters, helps him hide.

 

[Yiddo1982]

Spot on.

He hasn't (yet) bought in the calibre of players he did at Arsenal and some of his signings haven't been the best (yet), and I think that Ramos should be able to buy his own players.

If Jol could have bought in Distin, Petrov and Bale, as he reportedly wanted -I think we would of had much of a better start to this season.

They're are probably on £10 million-per-year salaries between them , so it's puzzling that you pay that much money for two people that probably aren't and will never be singing off the same hymn sheet. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians

 

[don1]

Why do we need a DOF?

sounds good:shrug:

 

[MattyP]

To answer the question - because Levy, whilst being an excellent business man, is not, in my opinion, particularly knowledgeable about football.

Very few managers, if any, determine the level of wages new players will get paid. I'd much rather Ramos approached Comolli, or any other DoF, and said this is who I want, or the kind of player I want, than Levy.

Levy's handling of Michael Carrick should be enough to persuade everyone that he should stick to running the business and allow a DoF to do all the transfer and wage negotiations.

 

[liamc23]

First of all we dont have a Director of Football we have a Sporting director which puts Comolli in charge of not just our scouting network but our medical, academy and club secretarial departments.

It seems to work for the like of AC, Barcelona and Real Madrid so why cant it work for us.

 

[joey55]

First of all we dont have a Director of Football we have a Sporting director which puts Comolli in charge of not just our scouting network but our medical, academy and club secretarial departments.

It seems to work for the like of AC, Barcelona and Real Madrid so why cant it work for us.

I think it works when you have a good Sporting Director and doesn't when he is bad. Just the same as it works here when you have a good manager and doesn't when you don't. I don't think the examples of AC and Barca etc are that great as they aren't really relevant to us. But other unestablished CL clubs have had success, most notably Seville. But on the other hand it can be a complete disaster as has been the case at Valencia in the last couple of years. Their previous Sporting Director is now at Athletico who are enjoying good season. Personally I think within this system a good Sporting Director is more important than the coach and that it is important the coach is his appointment.

I don't think good coach's can have much success with a bad set of players and poor club structure (things the Sporting Director are responsible for), but I do think a poor or average coach can be a relative success with a good group of players and good club structure. Again using Sevilla as an example, the coach before Ramos is a guy called Caparos, who prior to working at Seville had a fairly undistinguished career. he ahs since done badly at Depor and is currently struggling with Bilboa. However, when working at Seville, with Monchi, he took them from the Segunda Division, to 6th in La Liga and the 1/4 finals of the UEFA Cup. Or look at Hector Cuper with Valencia. He took them to the CL final, but when he left and worked without Pitarch (the guy now at Athletico) he has struggled. It's the same with Benitez. Two LA Liga titles with Valencia with Pitarch's players, buyt since buying his won, he hasn't even looked like winning a Prem title.

 

[AnotherSpursFan]

hope you are not implyin benitez as a poor or average coach because he has won the most coveted price in Europe, the FA cup and came close to winning their second European Champions League last year?

 

[nidge]

hope you are not implyin benitez as a poor or average coach because he has won the most coveted price in Europe, the FA cup and came close to winning their second European Champions League last year?

I think it was Mourinho that said any team can win a Cup competition but, it requires that bit extra to win the league. Don't get me wrong I would love us to win the CL and FA Cups but, the real prize is to prove your teams best over 38 league games.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think when the DOF is very good it is the best system. Especially when mated to a good coach.

Why do we need one ?

Well the idea is that you have someone to oversee all footballing aspects of a club, freeing the coach to coach. Also advising the board (who may have no experience of football, but just be wealthy businessmen) in all matters relating to player acquisition and other footballing issues.

An example would be Alan Sugar who confessed to not being knowledgeable in football terms and was pissed off with sanctioning big transfers that often didn't represent good value. I think it was Sugar who actually first muted (on the advice of Pleat ??) the idea of us going down that route.

As Joey has said, a good DOF can make a huge difference, especially when having to work with various constraints as most do. It's only when you are one of the big boys with no constraints that it becomes less essential as it becomes a case of a manager buying the best available that he fancies more or less). As we saw with arnesen who switched from a DOF roll with us to a head scout roll with Chelsea.

The dream ticket is a great DOF and a great coach which is what I think Sevilla had.

 

[joey55]

hope you are not implyin benitez as a poor or average coach because he has won the most coveted price in Europe, the FA cup and came close to winning their second European Champions League last year?

No I'm not saying he's a poor coach, but he is limited by his own ability to bring in the right players. He's been there for 3 years now and spent a lot of money, but they are still weakest in wide positions and upfront, as they were when he took over. How much and many different strikers did he buy before he got Torres? Had someone else been buying the players for him (like Pitarch) then maybe he wouldn't be under pressure now. His coaching abilites aren't in doubt, but Liverpool are no closer to winning the title now than before he took over.

 

[joey55]

I think when the DOF is very good it is the best system. Especially when mated to a good coach.

Why do we need one ?

Well the idea is that you have someone to oversee all footballing aspects of a club, freeing the coach to coach. Also advising the board (who may have no experience of football, but just be wealthy businessmen) in all matters relating to player acquisition and other footballing issues.

An example would be Alan Sugar who confessed to not being knowledgeable in football terms and was pissed off with sanctioning big transfers that often didn't represent good value. I think it was Sugar who actually first muted (on the advice of Pleat ??) the idea of us going down that route.

As Joey has said, a good DOF can make a huge difference, especially when having to work with various constraints as most do. It's only when you are one of the big boys with no constraints that it becomes less essential as it becomes a case of a manager buying the best available that he fancies more or less). As we saw with arnesen who switched from a DOF roll with us to a head scout roll with Chelsea.

The dream ticket is a great DOF and a great coach which is what I think Sevilla had.

And you have to add to that Del Nido and the way the club is owned and therefore run (as a cooperative).

 

[hybridsoldier]

i dont bash comolli, just the whole DOF thing, how can you accurately judge a manager/head coach/whatever under this stucture?

I felt it was time for Jol to go, but I really do rate the poor bloke for managing so long under this structure. Even Frank Arnesen brought in so many players, of which none cut the mustard at the end of the day!

Desperately hope it works but Im worried

 

[Rabbi_Krustofski]

Drop this stupid argument. We've got one and it helps the coach spend more time coaching. Fullstop.

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

My own feeling is that a director of football should oversee a lot of the peripheral aspects of the club, but that the manager should have a hands-on, direct role in buying/selling players. I didn't mind it when Graham was in charge and Pleat had a separate kitty for young players, but I don't like the idea of one person buying the players and another picking the team.

A lot of continental teams do have DoF's, but they are also teams that have a high turnover of managers. The rapid hiring and firing of managers seems to be catching on in England and maybe we'll see more DoF's as a result. Personally, I think the key is getting a good manager (which I think we have) and then making sure that they have all the righ personnel at their disposal. I definitely feel that the manager should have the final say over all purchases and sales, and that the DoF should function below him in a scouting/negotiating role.

 

[dontcallme]

The first point seems to be the fact that since the Prem began in the early 1990s we have been consistantly crap.

Pleat as DOF didn't prpduce as many of his young signings (David, Etherington, Gardner) didn't reach the standard required and he was reportedly always in disagreement with all our managers about which players to buy and how best to approach it. Levy came in and saw the whole structure was not working and change its foundations.

Arnesen while not being the most popular character since his defection to Chelsea seemed to know exactly how to take our club forward. Coaches, physios, players everything was overhauled.

We couldn't attract the top players without breaking our wage structure but Arnesen knew how to put a team together. A experienced centre back in Naybet and two hard working team players in Pamerot and Edman was a cheap way to help a poor defence. Mendes, Carrick and Davies gave us good option in centre midfield and Mido helped us have four decent strikers. After an indifferent season after the whole Santini debacle we seemed to be making good strides forward, the Frank left.

Comolli has been a different story altogether. He can attract quality youngsters and seems to know how to sell the club as a good place to join, the likes of Taarabt, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone and KPB are all high pedigree youngsters that chose our club and we convinced Berbatov we're a good club to join.

But Comolli doesn't seem to know how to put a team together. For all our investment we have no quality options in centre midfield since Carrick left, when Ledley is out our defence falls apart. We've bought what looks like a rosy future but haven't bought the right ingredients to make sure our present is as productive as it can be. Over the last 3 seasons we've been more proactive than almost anyone in the transfer market but now there's moee money in the Prem and the likes of Villa, Man City, Everton and Blackburn have invested rather than sold their main assets we've been exposed as a bit average.

I like the DOF system which leaves the Coach to concentrate fully on the first team and obviously he needs to be happy with every transfer involving the first team squad but my query is more with the individual as Sporting Director rather than the role itself as our club has made good progress since introducing it.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Is the answer really simple?

It is because we are a PLC. Why isn't the question "why do we have a finance director?" Or do people want some sort of dictatorship where one person tries to run everything and fails?

 

[SpurSince57]

The first point seems to be the fact that since the Prem began in the early 1990s we have been consistantly crap.

Pleat as DOF didn't prpduce as many of his young signings (David, Etherington, Gardner) didn't reach the standard required and he was reportedly always in disagreement with all our managers about which players to buy and how best to approach it. Levy came in and saw the whole structure was not working and change its foundations.

Arnesen while not being the most popular character since his defection to Chelsea seemed to know exactly how to take our club forward. Coaches, physios, players everything was overhauled.

We couldn't attract the top players without breaking our wage structure but Arnesen knew how to put a team together. A experienced centre back in Naybet and two hard working team players in Pamerot and Edman was a cheap way to help a poor defence. Mendes, Carrick and Davies gave us good option in centre midfield and Mido helped us have four decent strikers. After an indifferent season after the whole Santini debacle we seemed to be making good strides forward, the Frank left.

Comolli has been a different story altogether. He can attract quality youngsters and seems to know how to sell the club as a good place to join, the likes of Taarabt, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone and KPB are all high pedigree youngsters that chose our club and we convinced Berbatov we're a good club to join.

But Comolli doesn't seem to know how to put a team together. For all our investment we have no quality options in centre midfield since Carrick left, when Ledley is out our defence falls apart. We've bought what looks like a rosy future but haven't bought the right ingredients to make sure our present is as productive as it can be. Over the last 3 seasons we've been more proactive than almost anyone in the transfer market but now there's moee money in the Prem and the likes of Villa, Man City, Everton and Blackburn have invested rather than sold their main assets we've been exposed as a bit average.

I like the DOF system which leaves the Coach to concentrate fully on the first team and obviously he needs to be happy with every transfer involving the first team squad but my query is more with the individual as Sporting Director rather than the role itself as our club has made good progress since introducing it.

But here we have the problem in that we don't know precisely what brief Comolli is working under. Is it to put together a team that is capable of challenging the 'Big Four' whilst at the same time keeping ahead of the rest of the chasing pack, or to bring in young prospects who may not begin to reach their for another couple of seasons and upon whom we will then be able to make a fat profit? This is the cynic coming out in me now, but if us lot on SC could identify the type of player who could 'take us to the next level' (a phrase I'm beginning to loathe) then surely Comolli could too?

For me Jol's comment about CBs summed it up: 'We thought about Distin and Chivu, but we decided Kaboul would be the better long-term prospect.' Those may not be his precise words, but close enough, and one has to ask if there were two different 'we's' in this; did he and Comolli identified Distin and Chivu as possible targets, present their names to Levy and get told, 'Are you two crazy? How am I going to make my money back on those two? I've got shareholders to think of. Find me a good kid.'?

For me things started going tits-up at Spurs when we first became a PLC. When the interests of club and PLC coincide, everything is fine. When they diverge, it's the club that suffers.

 

[rez9000]

Although the thread isn't categorically about Comolli, when addressing the main thrust of the question the points raised lead us back to the question of whether Comolli is a good enough DOF, not necessarily whether we need one. Any system is desirable if it works. If we have a DOF system that demonstrably worked, worked by producing results on the pitch, no-one in their right mind would complain about it.

The suitability of Comolli in the position he holds now also raises the questions of transfers and board interests. Daniel Levy is a very cagey animal (as most successful businessmen are), but a football club is a different kettle of fish (a point that's been discussed on SC recently) and keeping the fans in the dark causes unrest.

Much of the restive nature of our complaints recently I believe stems from the shrouded nature of the structure of the club above the playing level. We don't definitively know what Ramos' role is at the club. Is he only responsible for training, coaching and team selection? Or does Ramos have the authority to sign players without significant interference (obviously football chairman do on occassion interfere in transfers) or is it only a veto that he is granted by the club? I feel that until we know categorically what Ramos and Comolli can and can't do, what their specific mandates are, there will be confusion in the fan ranks. If I was to be cynical, I may on ocassion even believe that that is exactly what the board desires.

 

[SpurSince57]

I think you should just join the cynics, Rez. You obviously want to. For me, having a Sporting Director gives the Dear Leader another level of protection. The Dear Leader must, like Caesar's wife, be above all suspicion. Although he must be allowed to take credit for the good stuff, of course.

You know how, in about Episode 15 of '24', the master terrorist Jack Bauer's been pursuing makes a phone call and you realise the bloke who answers is the real Dr Evil? That's Comolli, that is. And then in Episode 20 he makes a phone call and you realise he isn't Dr Evil after all—it's this new bloke!

And that's Levy.