What a shame.

[jambreck]

I assume Tony Parks will be out, too, as Poch is bring his goalkeeping coach with him - unless we need 2????

That seems most likely. Would be a shame. Because he is very highly regarded as a goalkeeping coach as well as being a Spurs man through and through.

 

[Metalhead]

"Some sort of club mascot"? I think you mean coach.

I mean that if Pochettino is bringing in his own coaches then there is no point in just keeping Sir Les for the sake of an old boy being at the club. I like Sir Les but we've still got Freund (assuming he's not going to get sacked) and I don't know what he does apart from talking about the Spurs lineup on Spurs tv

 

[Metalhead]

That's because sentimentality for the sake of it is bullshit. Just because he played for Spurs doesn't mean that I need to start making a heart shaped collage out of his topps cards. Spurs have signed plenty of dickheads in the past.

I'm saying there's no point in keeping him for the sake of it but I'm not being quite as dismissive as you. It's your opinion, no problem there and I get what you're saying.

 

[SpursManChris]

I am referring to all strikers we have owned since 2008, when Ferdinand joined as Harry Redknapp's 'Strikers Consultant'.

Do you genuinely feel that any of the strikers we have had in that time have had their careers furthered due to the tutelage of Ferdinand?

The only consistency we have had with our strikers is that they have left considerably worse players than when they arrived.

well there's only so much a coach can do, I mean they're not miracle workers are they. If a player just hasn't got it then they'll never get it no matter who the coach is. Do I genuinely feel that any of the strikers we have had in that time have had their careers furthered due to the tutelage of Ferdinand? Do YOU genuinely feel that any of the strikers we have had in the past were ever going to be good? Let's face it, we haven't exactly been blessed with many talented strikers since 2008 now have we? We would've actually needed a miracle worker for some of the strikers we've had. And I'm assuming you're not including Berbatov and Keane here, I'm not.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

well there's only so much a coach can do, I mean they're not miracle workers are they. If a player just hasn't got it then they'll never get it no matter who the coach is. Do I genuinely feel that any of the strikers we have had in that time have had their careers furthered due to the tutelage of Ferdinand? Do YOU genuinely feel that any of the strikers we have had in the past were ever going to be good? Let's face it, we haven't exactly been blessed with many talented strikers since 2008 now have we? We would've actually needed a miracle worker for some of the strikers we've had. And I'm assuming you're not including Berbatov and Keane here, I'm not.

Of course coaching has a huge difference on a player's potential outcome, otherwise we just wouldn't bother with them at all would we?

If Pochettino can get Rickie Lambert (donkey) to be a 1 in 2 striker, then Ferdinand should have been able to achieve that with Pav, Keane, Defoe, or Soldado. He couldn't because he is a bad coach.

I am not asking him to turn anyone into world beaters, what I am asking for is to see the strikers IMPROVE. Les Ferdinand has failed to make any striker he has ever coached IMPROVE. In fact, they all look poorer players as a result of his coaching. But yeah, let's keep him on as a coach with that track record because he played for us.

 

[Jody]

I think les's body language in the dug out was pretty poor tbh. Looked completely disinterested most of the time.

I'm not sure pots arrival means an immediate overhaul of the youth setup either. His team are first team coaches aren't they? New coaches often go for some stability - certainly short term.Interestingly, saints had just sacked their youth coaches.

 

[SpursManChris]

Of course coaching has a huge difference on a player's potential outcome, otherwise we just wouldn't bother with them at all would we?

If Pochettino can get Rickie Lambert (donkey) to be a 1 in 2 striker, then Ferdinand should have been able to achieve that with Pav, Keane, Defoe, or Soldado. He couldn't because he is a bad coach.

I am not asking him to turn anyone into world beaters, what I am asking for is to see the strikers IMPROVE. Les Ferdinand has failed to make any striker he has ever coached IMPROVE. In fact, they all look poorer players as a result of his coaching. But yeah, let's keep him on as a coach with that track record because he played for us.

While I might've been wrong about Les, my emphasis is on the other two. Hadn't Pav improved from when he first started to before he left? And how did Keane not improve? You mean goals wise? Because, remember, he can be largely judged on his partnership with Berba in which goals are not the only measure of performance. Pochettino got Lambert to be a 1 in 2 striker? I'm not sure you can say that, we are after all talking in the context of dedicated striker coaches, of which I'm sure Southampton have.

 

[SpursManChris]

we've still got Freund (assuming he's not going to get sacked) and I don't know what he does apart from talking about the Spurs lineup on Spurs tv

Hopefully, for his dignity's sake, it's more than just talking about the Spurs lineup on Spurs tv.

 

[SpursManChris]

The real work was done by our youth scouts and by John McDermott and his team of youth coaches.

Interesting, how do you know that exactly?

 

[Darragh]

This is all about money ... If Sherwood gets managers job maybe levy knows he will come calling for lea and Ramsey so compensation money needed so we will see ... My onions is a lot of coaches at spurs living the dream and not doing much to earn it just like the first team players

 

[mpickard2087]

Interesting, how do you know that exactly?

They are the ones identifying and bringing in the kids at a young age and who are working with the kids in the academy from age about 6 through to 16... Sherwood and Ramsey got hold of them at U18/Mostly U21 level.

 

[jambreck]

Interesting, how do you know that exactly?

Because, with one or two exceptions, all the players who have come through and are coming through our academy were there long before Sherwood took on his role as development coach. Sherwood's role has merely been to work on their transition from junior to senior football for three or four years prior to becoming head coach last December.

 

[Barry Mead]

The only one who will be a loss to Spurs is Ramsay. A highly regarded coach who has done an excellent job in the youth set up for many years.

Sherwood gets a lot of plaudits for his role as Development coach but I really don't see why. The real work was done by our youth scouts and by John McDermott and his team of youth coaches. As far as I can tell, Sherwood's job was more to oversee our graduate's transition into the senior game - which mostly involved finding good loans for them.

And Les is a lovely bloke. A former player. And a Spurs fan. But a great coach? I think we can do better.

Is Ramsey that good though? We hear he has a lot of qualifications but if he was responsible for coaching the first team during Sherwood's reign then it's pretty worrying as we looked really poor in a lot of games
As for the youth teams I think over the years we have had some decent success at different levels but despite buying in a few supposed young talents to boost the ones that we have developed from young we have had few real quality young players coming through. We can produce a few players that have a few games then drift off to lesser teams but the likes of Ledley coming through are as rare of rocking horse shit. Of course we have seen Caulker, Livermore, Kane, Carroll, Andros and Bentalab come through in recent seasons but at best they are cover level for a club with our supposed ambitions rather than serious first team challengers and I'm not too convinced that more time and experience will push them up that extra level. Other clubs seem to be able to bring through players that look far more likely to succeed. Worse is that some supposed talented players like Bostock, Parret and Smith have all faded away in recent years despite high hopes

 

[jonnyp]

Couldn't give a toss about either of them, sorry.

 

[jambreck]

Is Ramsey that good though? We hear he has a lot of qualifications but if he was responsible for coaching the first team during Sherwood's reign then it's pretty worrying as we looked really poor in a lot of games
As for the youth teams I think over the years we have had some decent success at different levels but despite buying in a few supposed young talents to boost the ones that we have developed from young we have had few real quality young players coming through. We can produce a few players that have a few games then drift off to lesser teams but the likes of Ledley coming through are as rare of rocking horse shit. Of course we have seen Caulker, Livermore, Kane, Carroll, Andros and Bentalab come through in recent seasons but at best they are cover level for a club with our supposed ambitions rather than serious first team challengers and I'm not too convinced that more time and experience will push them up that extra level. Other clubs seem to be able to bring through players that look far more likely to succeed. Worse is that some supposed talented players like Bostock, Parret and Smith have all faded away in recent years despite high hopes

I can only go by what I've heard and read about Chris Ramsey. And it's all been positive.

Whether he deserves the reputation, I couldn't say.

 

[beats1]

Is Ramsey that good though? We hear he has a lot of qualifications but if he was responsible for coaching the first team during Sherwood's reign then it's pretty worrying as we looked really poor in a lot of games
As for the youth teams I think over the years we have had some decent success at different levels but despite buying in a few supposed young talents to boost the ones that we have developed from young we have had few real quality young players coming through. We can produce a few players that have a few games then drift off to lesser teams but the likes of Ledley coming through are as rare of rocking horse shit. Of course we have seen Caulker, Livermore, Kane, Carroll, Andros and Bentalab come through in recent seasons but at best they are cover level for a club with our supposed ambitions rather than serious first team challengers and I'm not too convinced that more time and experience will push them up that extra level. Other clubs seem to be able to bring through players that look far more likely to succeed. Worse is that some supposed talented players like Bostock, Parret and Smith have all faded away in recent years despite high hopes

We don't have the culture to develop the players in the levels above however some of the players in the academy have been brilliant but let down by regressing at poor loan moves and not being played.

Livermore for example is the one that was the least talented from the group but the manager fancied him and now he is playing for a team in Europe next season

 

[mpickard2087]

Is Ramsey that good though? We hear he has a lot of qualifications but if he was responsible for coaching the first team during Sherwood's reign then it's pretty worrying as we looked really poor in a lot of games
As for the youth teams I think over the years we have had some decent success at different levels but despite buying in a few supposed young talents to boost the ones that we have developed from young we have had few real quality young players coming through. We can produce a few players that have a few games then drift off to lesser teams but the likes of Ledley coming through are as rare of rocking horse shit. Of course we have seen Caulker, Livermore, Kane, Carroll, Andros and Bentalab come through in recent seasons but at best they are cover level for a club with our supposed ambitions rather than serious first team challengers and I'm not too convinced that more time and experience will push them up that extra level. Other clubs seem to be able to bring through players that look far more likely to succeed. Worse is that some supposed talented players like Bostock, Parret and Smith have all faded away in recent years despite high hopes

As has been said before though by myself and others, the academy had an overhaul and became of much more importance 10 years ago when Arnesen came in. It takes time though. The ones who have come through now in the last year or so would really be the first 'batch' that have come through the system since added investment and professional approach in the academy structure. Even if the players listed above aren't quite good enough for our level, its an encouraging sign that they have been of enough potential to at least come into contention for a place in the squad. As I said, this is the first crop really, in future years you would hope that the standard gets even better, as the academy has seemed to go from strength to strength.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

While I might've been wrong about Les, my emphasis is on the other two. Hadn't Pav improved from when he first started to before he left? And how did Keane not improve? You mean goals wise? Because, remember, he can be largely judged on his partnership with Berba in which goals are not the only measure of performance. Pochettino got Lambert to be a 1 in 2 striker? I'm not sure you can say that, we are after all talking in the context of dedicated striker coaches, of which I'm sure Southampton have.

Pav was sought after when he was signed, and his career tailed off massively.

Lambert has scored 103 goals in 205 Southampton games. So ever so slightly better than 1 in 2.

 

[Barry Mead]

As has been said before though by myself and others, the academy had an overhaul and became of much more importance 10 years ago when Arnesen came in. It takes time though. The ones who have come through now in the last year or so would really be the first 'batch' that have come through the system since added investment and professional approach in the academy structure. Even if the players listed above aren't quite good enough for our level, its an encouraging sign that they have been of enough potential to at least come into contention for a place in the squad. As I said, this is the first crop really, in future years you would hope that the standard gets even better, as the academy has seemed to go from strength to strength.

That's as maybe but where does Ramsey figure in this and what part did the guy, forget his name off hand but who I think Liverpool took, he was supposedly the guy brought in to really develop young talent. We always hear our coaches are supposed to be great but is that publicity or fact?

 

[jambreck]

That's as maybe but where does Ramsey figure in this and what part did the guy, forget his name off hand but who I think Liverpool took, he was supposedly the guy brought in to really develop young talent. We always hear our coaches are supposed to be great but is that publicity or fact?

The only empirical evidence we have is the quality of young players to have graduated from our academy over recent years and those who are still in the system. And the evidence suggests that either the scouts or the coaches (hopefully both) are doing a very good job because the consistent quality of our youth players is far higher than it was and getting better still.