West Ham vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[Spurger King]

I have a feeling we'll be immense on Wednesday. The problem is, I suspect our players are focused entirely on the champions league.

I remember a European match we had against Slavia Prague (I think), which was a few days before the carling cup final against Chelsea. We put in a drab performance, mainly because the players looked like they were worried about getting injured, or over excerting themselves before such a big match.

Today was a bit similar as well. They looked like their minds were already concerned with Wednesday, and just wanted to get this out of the way.

And if Harry has rested King and Gallas so that they can play against FC Twente, then his priorities are all wrong. I dodn't like it when Ramos rested King in premiership games so he could play in Europe, and I won't like it if Harry is doing the same. The very fact that he mentioned the problem of whether to play Modric today, or rest him for Wednesday, suggests to me that this is exactly how he is approaching things.

 

[Krafty]

Corluka always, always performas badly as a centre back. The train-puller was beaten in the air so often it was criminal for someone at 6'3/6'4. I dont think he has had one game as a centre back, not even in pre-season, where he has been anything other than a liability. Add in the issue that his form at right back has been very poor, it was always going to cause problems.

We were just so slow with the ball. Crouch was totally ineffectual. He was owned in the air, mainly because it took so long for us to get into a position to use him that the defenders could get tight and out muscle him.

The midfielders didnt want to break forward beyond Crouch. Crouch didnt help by not coming deep at all.

There is either complacency or a superiority complex. I call it the Jenas disease, and its spreading qucikly. An attitude that you dont need to put in 100%, you dont need to break out of your comfort zone, you dont need to worry if you are sloppy with the ball, someone will do the business and you will still get paid.

I dont think Harry really knows how to work the 4-5-1. There is no makelele, no one covering the full backs so they can bomb forward with abandon. No one from midfield looking to get 20 goals a season.

The game plan to beat us is simple - get lots of men behind the ball, get narrow, let us have the ball. Then use a little pace or power (both if you have them - lets be honest Obina and Piquonne are not great strikers) to take advantage when we become complacent.

Wednesday we need to get back on track, and for love of god keep a clean sheet.

 

[spur_souljah]

I think all our goals conceded have come from set pieces or crosses into the box, thats clearly something we need to work on, aside from the dilema of getting the strikers to score..

 

[Gambler]

It would seem nobody was.

And as Benny wasn't playing nobody bothered covering the post.

 

[Gambler]

When we lost to pompey in the semi last year I actually thought that Piqueonne could do a decent job for us. He isn't a world beater but we don't actually need one. We just need a player that can run AND head the ball AND hold the ball up AND offer a physical presence AND work the channels. He doesn't need to be a great finisher or technically wonderful, he just needs to offer us the ability to be unpredictable.

Pav can finish but nothing else, Crouch is, er, tall? Keane is, well, finished? Defoe blows hot and cold but is at least fairly quick.

None of them can offer what we need.

We need to do our best until January and then do EVERYTHING we can to buy a striker. Seriously, if Piquione was playing for us we would have won today. The whole team is stifled by our lack of quality up front!

If CC had been playing for us we would have won today :bang:

 

[spurs_viola]

Corluka always, always performas badly as a centre back. The train-puller was beaten in the air so often it was criminal for someone at 6'3/6'4. I dont think he has had one game as a centre back, not even in pre-season, where he has been anything other than a liability. Add in the issue that his form at right back has been very poor, it was always going to cause problems.

We were just so slow with the ball. Crouch was totally ineffectual. He was owned in the air, mainly because it took so long for us to get into a position to use him that the defenders could get tight and out muscle him.

The midfielders didnt want to break forward beyond Crouch. Crouch didnt help by not coming deep at all.

There is either complacency or a superiority complex. I call it the Jenas disease, and its spreading qucikly. An attitude that you dont need to put in 100%, you dont need to break out of your comfort zone, you dont need to worry if you are sloppy with the ball, someone will do the business and you will still get paid.

I dont think Harry really knows how to work the 4-5-1. There is no makelele, no one covering the full backs so they can bomb forward with abandon. No one from midfield looking to get 20 goals a season.

The game plan to beat us is simple - get lots of men behind the ball, get narrow, let us have the ball. Then use a little pace or power (both if you have them - lets be honest Obina and Piquonne are not great strikers) to take advantage when we become complacent.

Wednesday we need to get back on track, and for love of god keep a clean sheet.

Agree with all these points.
Corluka has been tried as CB in 3 pre-season games (full 90 min) and it didn't work on either occasion. Today proved it again.
Considering the injury situation with King and Woodgate, signing someone like Gallas (a player without any serious pre-season preparation) was always going to be risky. In effect, we now 3 central defenders whom we cannot rely on playing regularly.

Crouch is never going to be effective in 4-5-1 system in EPL, where defenders can deal with him easily in that system.
He can work in a 4-3-3, but you need Bale much further up than when he is a LB. And you need Lennon with more confidence to beat his man and support attack properly.

For 4-5-1 to be effective, you normally need 2 mobile holding midfielders with enough skill, discipline and intelligence to not only shield the defence in the middle and break up opposition's play but also cover for attacking fullbacks and provide the link-up with attacking midfielders.
Huddlestone and Jenas do not work together well enough to provide all of that. Huddlestone and Sandro may do, though.

At the moment, this and the absence of proper focal point/clever forward to link up with (Crouch is not going to be that) may be the main reasons why we are not getting the best out of the combination of Modric and VDV - which should be a dream pairing on paper. Modric is dropping deeper than he should, leaving VDV alone in advanced central midfield areas, there seems to be too many people in the same areas in the centre of the pitch and a clear lack of balance / organisation there at the moment.

 

[SpurSince57]

Does anybody seriously believe we will sign a striker in January?? I just can't see it happening certainly not in the January transfer window. We could be stuck with the dumplings we have for the whole season. So it's either hope for the best or go back to playing 442.

Not really. There are very few of the standard we need around to start with. Maybe we should have stuck with Bentinho; he can't do a whole shedload else, but he can score goals OK.

 

[DoublePivot]

with our recent form I just can't wait until we play on wednesday!!...who's gonna be up for that one?

I can imagine XI that might not be :bang:

 

[There's always next year]

Not really. There are very few of the standard we need around to start with. Maybe we should have stuck with Bentinho; he can't do a whole shedload else, but he can score goals OK.

Bentinho was moved out to accomodate a vastly superior Crouch!

 

[roosh]

I have a feeling we'll be immense on Wednesday. The problem is, I suspect our players are focused entirely on the champions league.

I remember a European match we had against Slavia Prague (I think), which was a few days before the carling cup final against Chelsea. We put in a drab performance, mainly because the players looked like they were worried about getting injured, or over excerting themselves before such a big match.

Today was a bit similar as well. They looked like their minds were already concerned with Wednesday, and just wanted to get this out of the way.

And if Harry has rested King and Gallas so that they can play against FC Twente, then his priorities are all wrong. I dodn't like it when Ramos rested King in premiership games so he could play in Europe, and I won't like it if Harry is doing the same. The very fact that he mentioned the problem of whether to play Modric today, or rest him for Wednesday, suggests to me that this is exactly how he is approaching things.

I think the issue is trying to ensure that we can perform in both competitions. We have a squad which should be able to do both, so resting the likes of Modric shouldn't be that much of an issue. The problem, I believe, lies in the fact that without an in-form Palacios, and no ready replacement for him, then we are back to a problem which has dogged us for so long, we are not competitive enough in midfield, we don't get stuck in enough. We also don't have a reliable enough CM pivot, someone who continually shows for the ball, and knows where to move when our players are on the ball and need options. vdV, and to an extent Modric, are these players, but they need to be played in CM along with a holding midfielder so they are free to roam.

 

[roosh]

Not really. There are very few of the standard we need around to start with. Maybe we should have stuck with Bentinho; he can't do a whole shedload else, but he can score goals OK.

I reckon Kevin Doyle could do a job for us. He's decent in the air, he's decent with the ball at his feet, he works hard, he's relatively physical and he can give defenses a tough time.

He is miles away from the Torres, Drogba,van Persie type player we are crying out for, but I think he possesses many of the positive attributes of Keane, Pav and Crouch rolled into one. If anything, he would be more efficient.

 

[kcmei]

doyle is much better than any strikers we have

 

[roosh]

doyle is much better than any strikers we have

Himself and Defoe could link up well too I reckon.

 

[Legend10]

doyle is much better than any strikers we have

Can't agree with that.

 

[ardiles]

I'm never comfortable when Corluka or Hudd is played in CD.
We have Caulker on our books and should have used him. Although he doesn't have much big game experience, at least he plays regularly in that position and is well aware of the positioning and reading of how a CB plays. In any case, I wouldn't have considered West Ham as a big team that using Caulker would have been a big risk to take.

Although, overall the whole team played below their usual standards, I feel that the reason we didn't see much runs on the flanks from Bale and Hutton was because they were not comfortable leaving Bassong behind with an out-of-position stand-in CD partner in Corluka.

Once we get a top class striker, who can play on his own up front, I'd hope to see us play with 3 attacking MFs - Modric & VDV & Lennon in front of two DMs in Huddlestone and Sandro. Bale and our RB (whoever is played) can then bombard up the flanks knowing that they will be covered defensively by one of our DMs.

With Chelsea, Arsenal & Man Utd dropping points, this was a great opportunity to catch up with them, which we wasted.