Wake up and smell the Dawson
- Thread starter Bus-Conductor
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snake1
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- Apr 23, 2006
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Ok, maybe I over did it, calling him shit. But we're a team with CL ambitions, he's simply not good enough to start for us, and he makes too many mistakes. I realize he's probably a starter at the moment, but, we both know thats only until both King and Woodgate are fully fit, you said it yourself.
I'll admit to being a bit harsh on him by calling him shit, but, there's no harshness in saying he's not good enough.
I'll admit to being a bit harsh on him by calling him shit, but, there's no harshness in saying he's not good enough.
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
- Oct 19, 2004
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I wonder (seriously) if the impending arrival of Woodgate went through Dawson's mind as he trudged off on Sunday ?
Is Woodgate fit at the moment ?
Is Woodgate fit at the moment ?
SpurSince57
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- Jan 20, 2006
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Which is fair enough.
He hasn't developed, and for most of this season, until the last few games, he's been a liability—but my biggest gripe isn't the errors, it's been that he hasn't stepped up and taken command when paired with Kaboul. I'm not sure how good Kaboul's English is, and I'd guess that Dawson's French is non-existent, but it should be possible to communicate that your partner's primary job is to stay back, hold the line and defend. Getting forward and whacking in a couple of goals is a bonus, but you get your arse back. Last season people were suggesting that Dawson was captain material. Well, no, he isn't.
I don't have a problem with B-C saying that Dawson doesn't cut the mustard at top level, because he was saying that two years ago. But how many of those who are bashing him now took the opposite view?
He hasn't developed, and for most of this season, until the last few games, he's been a liability—but my biggest gripe isn't the errors, it's been that he hasn't stepped up and taken command when paired with Kaboul. I'm not sure how good Kaboul's English is, and I'd guess that Dawson's French is non-existent, but it should be possible to communicate that your partner's primary job is to stay back, hold the line and defend. Getting forward and whacking in a couple of goals is a bonus, but you get your arse back. Last season people were suggesting that Dawson was captain material. Well, no, he isn't.
I don't have a problem with B-C saying that Dawson doesn't cut the mustard at top level, because he was saying that two years ago. But how many of those who are bashing him now took the opposite view?
Blotto
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- Jan 13, 2008
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That's anyone's guess :shrug:, supposedly he sat out of Boro's FA Cup match last weekend because of a calf-strain--but that could have been smoke and mirrors related to the impending transfer, no?
SpurSince57
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- Jan 20, 2006
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I'd say it was right at the back of his mind, and his foremost thought was: 'Why the fuck did I do that?'
Blotto
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- Jan 13, 2008
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Its interesting that you say that because I recall one of the better matches Kaboul has had for us was when he was paired with Zoko in the center or maybe it Chimbo--it was one of the two in the center with him and they were chatting it up.
Personally, though no record is available, I've had a wait and see attitude towards Dawson but it seems to me that the tally sheet is not adding up in his favour at the moment--again, the lack of communication is another characteristic of young players, developing players; communication and positioning skills and judgment are things that they work hard to develop--Dawson seems to be lacking this season in particular. He just hasn't come along...
Whenever I read 'x player is shit' I really despair
these are some who have incurred this brilliant piece of analysis - Daws 100+ games for spurs and forest - England U 21 & full squad member - JJ - England international - 100+ games for Spurs & Toon - Lee korean interantional - 100+ games for Spurs & PSV
I mean really - how ridiculous - if you went up to a Div 3 player and called him shit - apart from obvious personal danger you're probably talking nonsense - becausee that player has probably sweated for years and outperformed so many other players to get where he is - but a player regualrly playing in one of the best leagues in the world for a club that is certainly one of the top 10 in that league, a player with international honours - 'shit' - really
these are some who have incurred this brilliant piece of analysis - Daws 100+ games for spurs and forest - England U 21 & full squad member - JJ - England international - 100+ games for Spurs & Toon - Lee korean interantional - 100+ games for Spurs & PSV
I mean really - how ridiculous - if you went up to a Div 3 player and called him shit - apart from obvious personal danger you're probably talking nonsense - becausee that player has probably sweated for years and outperformed so many other players to get where he is - but a player regualrly playing in one of the best leagues in the world for a club that is certainly one of the top 10 in that league, a player with international honours - 'shit' - really
Blotto
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- Jan 13, 2008
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I agree to a certain extent and would assume everyone is aware of the level of dedication and skill it takes to get to the Prem (or the 3rd division) in some way--even if it is the clear recognition that we do not possess those qualities
. However, football is a harsh sport--if you fuck up you get dropped and that's how it should be, right? I personally am not calling for anything other than Dawson to be moved to the role of back of CB, that's the role that seems to suit him best; he just hasn't developed into that great CB that everyone thought he was going to be. Who knows? With some competition for his position maybe he will work harder and get better--I hope so, I rather like the lad, what I know of him. But if Juande was right in benching Robbo (whose credentials easily match Dawson's, perhaps exceed them depending on how one looks at it), then certainly he would be right in benching Dawson. No one has the right to a position, it has to be earned--both in training and on match day, but as it can be gained so it can be lost (sounds biblical almost). Past accomplishments only mean so much in this context...
lilywhitecurtis
Cocknose
- May 2, 2005
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Come on, hasn't it always been obvious that without Ledley, Dawson has huge defensive weaknesses? What's the news here? He's a good back up as long as he has a postionally better defender next 2 him..
double0
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- Aug 29, 2006
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I was doubtful about the signing of Woodgate due to his injury record (no question about his quality though) but after witnessing the makeshift back four against United it's a must we get in an experience world class defender.
Which brings me onto the subject of Michael Dawson. Dawson has not improved as a defender and continues to make fundamental mistakes which have and will continue to cost us results, the FA cup game against United was a prime example of Dawson's lack of concentration to defend without the customary blunder...without Ledley King next to him his a championship defender.
Which brings me onto the subject of Michael Dawson. Dawson has not improved as a defender and continues to make fundamental mistakes which have and will continue to cost us results, the FA cup game against United was a prime example of Dawson's lack of concentration to defend without the customary blunder...without Ledley King next to him his a championship defender.
Michey
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- May 4, 2004
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...and when Kaboul has get used to the Premiership he'll be the backup and push for the starting xl. He's got a shitload more of skills than Dawson, but he was thrown into the Premiership without no really backing and got hurt by that but he''ll be great for us.
Seanson
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- Apr 25, 2005
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Dawson may not be top class but he is a very good defender who just needs someone like King or Woodgate beside him. Very few teams can have top class right through the team. The next best thing is someone like Dawson who has tonnes of ability and courage but needs a little guidance. He has a lot of experience for a 24 year old but it's not really an experience thing. Many players have ball playing ability but few have that extra vision of King. I believe it's the same as Keane and Defoe. Defoe has possibly better ball skills but Keane has better positional awareness, heart, and coolness under pressure.
neogenisis
*Gensy*
- Jun 27, 2006
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I like Dawson as people have said he *seems* to need the experience beside him, maybe thats the difference between a good defender and top notch defender, good ones look excellent with a great partner at the back, top notch are always that.
Even though he is making mistakes you cant question his determination and willingess to get in the way at all costs.
Having Woodgate now tho makes me worry slightly as when fit King and Woodgate will be the CB pairing, lets hope with those 2 class players teaching him we can see an upturn when he plays.
Even though he is making mistakes you cant question his determination and willingess to get in the way at all costs.
Having Woodgate now tho makes me worry slightly as when fit King and Woodgate will be the CB pairing, lets hope with those 2 class players teaching him we can see an upturn when he plays.
markie
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- Nov 17, 2004
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they certainly are without me playing!
WHITEHART80
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- Oct 21, 2004
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A team I used to play for once lost 9-1 and 8 of the other teams goals were own goals, our goal was also an OG.
Great game.
donny1013
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- Nov 4, 2005
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He played well against Woolwich thats for sure, he had a bad day on Sunday, maybe in part to Ledley not holding his hand. i feel this season has been a real learning curve for Daws and will in the grand scheme of things be good for him. his pass to Lennon which led to the goal however was superb. He can only learn from Woody and hopefully this helps him improve further.
"shit," when used in the context of Tottenham, is clearly a relative term. NO ONE here is saying he is shit on an absolute basis (vs. you, me or johnny one-leg). When people use the word "shit" to describe Dawson, they are referring to the fact he is shit relative to other CBs in Premier League teams who are as ambitious as we are. I would be tempted to say he is one of the most error-prone CBs in the League but I can't say I'm knowledgeable enough to say that.