Wake up and smell the Dawson

[General Levy]

Thank you for this penetrating insight. And had Dawson had eyes in the back of his head, I'm sure he'd have been aware of this fact.

And of course, had Dawson possessed this amazing facility and left the ball, and had Lee (well known for his aerial ability) failed to head it safely away or cut it out, no blame whatsoever would have attached to Dawson, right?

In a pig's eye.

At the end of the day it boils down to did Lee call for the ball? If he did then its Dawson's fault. If he never then its part Lee and part Dawson's fault.

 

[Steve776]

My God seems a very touchy subject to some,
Lets face facts we have a defence that as a unit are not good enough, you cant say all sorts of things about him not marking him, him not seeing him, but WE HAVE LET IN SO MANY F*CKING GOALS FROM INDIVIDUAL ERRORS, that is why Mr Ramos is trying to sign a new back four.

 

[ballingarry]

Yes, a split second difference might have made a difference and Daws would have been rightly hailed as having saved us. But he's still not a footballer... there's nothing else to his game... not good enough... sorry.

Nice lad though... I like his smile.

U like his smile!! I couldnt care if hes the ugliest fucker in the world as longas he can defend half decent!

 

[SpurSince57]

I can forgive Dawson for the misjudgment in the first goal but the 2nd goal was plain stupidity. Even SS57 has to agree that it was unnecessary and plain ridiculous to resort to handball in such a situation.

If Daws stayed cool and rational then he would have come to the same conclusion that almost every other defender should have; that is letting that ball goal means a possibility of a goal but at least having 11 players on field means that any fightback is more feasible than 10. He let down the whole team with his thoughtless action and that cannot be condoned.

Yes, he appears to be trying too hard in the absence of King but like some keep pointing out, he just cannot keep floundering everytime his safety net (King) disappears. He tries to take on everything and stop thinking that football is a team game and that causes him to make stupid mistakes that he shouldn't have. We need a cooler and more confident defender in there than Daws for sure.

It was. But what I was ridiculing was the assumption that VdS's hoofs were 'easy' balls to deal with. The only response to that is: Easy? Balls.

I wouldn't disagree with in the slightest with your closing paragraph.

 

[whatsappnin]

and no one noticed the gay clearance from lennon that led to the first goal???? he actually done it twice in the first half. He looked inexperienced to say the least. please comment!

 

[whatsappnin]

and he shoots like a fairy

 

[SpursManChris]

This thread tends to crop up when Dason get's blamed for us losing...interesting to note the last post before your resurrection of the thread was some 6 games ago...

Dawson did screw up twice today...it happens. Maybe it's you who should explain yourself as to why you've waited 6 games and almost 4 weeks to bring up Dawson's failures, again?

Well first of all, the last time this thread was posted in before I bumped it, when it was still a very active thread, was 25 days ago, not 4 weeks. And it hasn't been 6 games at all, far less.
But I'll admit it, he has had a few good games. He's crap, but he's not crap enough to not have the occasional good game. Yesterdays blunders were well significant and obvious enough to give us Dawson bashers the pretext to start going at it again.

 

[Bingy]

Ballingarry.....LONG time no see!Reidy sends his 'besht'....I was speaking to him last week.....Anyway.....Daws has made his future VERY unsure....maybe not his own fault but he is not a top 4 CB....nor is he, sadly, even a Prem CB right now. I like the guy but call a spade a spade....and he can't dig for squat....the shit sticks, I 'am afraid to say! COYS!

 

[ballingarry]

Ballingarry.....LONG time no see!Reidy sends his 'besht'....I was speaking to him last week.....Anyway.....Daws has made his future VERY unsure....maybe not his own fault but he is not a top 4 CB....nor is he, sadly, even a Prem CB right now. I like the guy but call a spade a spade....and he can't dig for squat....the shit sticks, I 'am afraid to say! COYS!

Likewise! we should open a bring bak Reid thread one of the days jahz twud be sum laugh! wed get sum feckin abuse

 

[wishmaster]

mate the reason we didnt concede was cos their finishing was piss poor and robbo made a few good saves. our back 4 was goodyesterday, but you cant say zokora is better than dawson at CB

did i miss something? Robbo wasnt even playing as far as im aware.:bang:

 

[Dibby]

did i miss something? Robbo wasnt even playing as far as im aware.:bang:

That post was made on the 16-12-2007 mate. :wink:

 

[OllieD]

So, are you saying he shouldn't have gone for either of those balls?

As I've been trying to explain, along with several others, if today's 'mistakes' had been hideous Titus Bungle errors of judgement, the flak would have been in order. But neither was an error of judgement, in the sense that he made a poor decision. He misjudged the flight of the ball. If people can't tell the difference (and, plainly, some can't) then, really, they haven't got a fucking clue. We have someone claiming he'd have headed balls like those away (and of course, Sunday League keepers routinely deliver balls like that, piece of piss). I mean what, seriously?

No, he isn't the player some of us thought he was. But some people were claiming he was a top-class CB two years ago, when he clearly wasn't. Some of those people are gleefully pulling him down now.

But compared to some of the useless ****s I've seen masquerading as CBs in my time, from Laurie Brown through to Ramon Vega, he's pretty good.

First - judge Dawson as a Premier League player. That ball was in the air for however many seconds and he should be able to deal with it. OBVIOUSLY your average joe would find the ball slightly harder to deal with. That's a really lazy argument.

Second - yes, people make mistakes. The best people make less mistakes though (e.g. rio, ledley, terry). Dawson makes TOO MANY mistakes. I said it last year when people were trying to vote him as player of the season, and I will say it again. The boy has a lot of heart, but a class defender he ain't. Even you have to admit this.

Finally - I understand you are reacting because you feel people are just trying to blame someone for our defeat. I feel, however, that people are using the Man Utd examples as further proof that Dawson just doesn't have what it takes to be our 1st or 2nd choice CB. The proof mounts every month. I, myself, am glad Woodgate has been signed. I hope he remains fit.

 

[SpurSince57]

First - judge Dawson as a Premier League player. That ball was in the air for however many seconds and he should be able to deal with it. OBVIOUSLY your average joe would find the ball slightly harder to deal with. That's a really lazy argument.

Second - yes, people make mistakes. The best people make less mistakes though (e.g. rio, ledley, terry). Dawson makes TOO MANY mistakes. I said it last year when people were trying to vote him as player of the season, and I will say it again. The boy has a lot of heart, but a class defender he ain't. Even you have to admit this.

Finally - I understand you are reacting because you feel people are just trying to blame someone for our defeat. I feel, however, that people are using the Man Utd examples as further proof that Dawson just doesn't have what it takes to be our 1st or 2nd choice CB. The proof mounts every month. I, myself, am glad Woodgate has been signed. I hope he remains fit.

Somewhere further back in this thread, or possibly elsewhere, you'll find I suggested he resembles a stunned haddock at times. Also, that I stated that, whilst I wasn't giving up on him, he was at a crossroads and had to show improvement, and that the 'inexperience' excuse was fast running out. GK, in his traditionally feeble attempt at sarcasm above, refers to him as 'my hero'. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I was suggesting that people were getting a wee bit carried away two years ago.

He does his best, he's got a lot of heart, and you can't fault his commitment. I can understand why a lot of people did vote for him as Player of the Season; although his errors were responsible for a lot of goals in the league alone, we would have been a lot worse off without him.

Lazy argument? I think not. Your Average Joe Sunday League player would stand there gawping as the ball sailed over his head, because your Average Joe Sunday League player doesn't normally have to face high-trajectory balls travelling virtually the length of the pitch, and doesn't have the likes of Giggs and Rooney hovering around either. Dawson could have done better, might have done better, but saying he should have done better (especially when a Sunday morning player preposterously claims he would have done better as 'evidence' of this) is being hypercritical. Dawson misjudged the flight of the ball twice. If it had been King, the reaction would have been 'shit happens'. The stupid, typical Dawson mistake was the handball.

If you like, it's the tone of the 'criticism' that irks me. The way certain people turn on a player pisses me off no end. Here on SC we do hero to zero in a manner that would make the red-tops proud. And then there's the double standards. On the match ratings thread Cerny was being defended for what was a pretty awful fluff, deflection or no deflection. Robinson would have been cut no such slack.

Never mind, we must have our scapegoat of the week…

 

[PLTuck]

If you like, it's the tone of the 'criticism' that irks me. The way certain people turn on a player pisses me off no end. Here on SC we do hero to zero in a manner that would make the red-tops proud. And then there's the double standards. On the match ratings thread Cerny was being defended for what was a pretty awful fluff, deflection or no deflection. Robinson would have been cut no such slack.

Never mind, we must have our scapegoat of the week…

Agree with the rest of the post as well but in particular the above paragraph.

It amazes me, and really gets my back up when so called supporters (not aimed at anyone in particular I might add) turn so quickly on a player. If Woody takes a bit of adjusting, playing in a different system with better players, and makes a mistake or two, how many here will jump onto his case quickly? Or if O'Hara suddenly has a few bad games / weeks / months?

It pisses me off, and it's why I tend to read Spurs Chat rather than post lots in it.

As for Daws. Yes he's made mistakes. Yes Ledley and Woody will be 1st choice pairing when fit. I would imagine some of this is to take the pressure off Dawson. He's carried alot on his shoulders since his move here. For a defender he's still a good few years off his prime, which I guess for a defensive player is more about positioning and tactical awareness. This only comes with time, patience and good management of gametime. You can only learn by making mistakes. All imo of course.

I think he'll be a fine servant to THFC if he stays long term. If he's happy to have to step it up a level, and have some stiff competition for his place in the starting XI, then I for one am happy for him to be a THFC player and be patient with him.



Playing with better players makes you better. It's a fact. Bringing in Woody will hopefully have a good effect on the younger defenders as they have more experience to draw on.

Keep the faith!

 

[snake1]

*Sigh* Dawson is shit. He was shit at the beginning of the season (IMO), shit last week, and guess what? Yup, you got it, he's still shit.

He's a brave lad, for sure, but, that's not good enough. He lacks concentration, has no pace and, can't control the ball properly. I shit myself every time he gets the ball.
Having said that, he seems to up his game when he's paired with King, but, when he's not, he's fucking shit. He's getting progressively worse, in my opinion.


ED. I've never rated Dawson, always thought he was a clown.

 

[SpurSince57]

Wow! A perfect example of the deeply cerebral thinking I was complaining about.

If you think Dawson's shit, you really don't have a clue. Or perhaps you're not old enough to remember Vega or Lacey.

And whether he's going to make it at the top level or not, he's currently our third-choice CB and first-choice until King and Woodgate are both fully fit. Or are you suggesting that Ramos doesn't know what he's about when he prefers not only Dawson, but Huddlestone, to Kaboul?

Bottom line is, he never gives less than his best shot, so I'll forgive the odd moments of doziness. I could put up with Johnny Pratt for that reason.

 

[snake1]

I remember Vega, and he was shit too.

At the end of the day SS, it comes down to opinion. Just because you say he isn't shit, doesn't mean he isn't. Same for me. Yes, he always gives his all, but, that doesn't mean he deserves a place in our starting line-up, does it? Especially when he's prone to fuck-ups. When fit, I expect Woodgate and King to start ahead of him every time, unless, of course, when one or the other is in need of a rest. He's decent back-up, in my opinon, nothing more.

 

[clint]

dawson is a VERY able player , what with his aerial talent, attitude and engine. he's just not sharp enough to play as our main CB if we are to carry on improving as we have done recently. so let's try him in other positions before we unload him, right back,left back and defensive midfield . im sure he would flourish and get his confidence back, maybe even improve as a player in a less critical position..

the end of dawson is.. faraway.

 

[ultimateloner]

Ramos agree with most people on this site that Dawson is not good enough CB in the starting 11 if we were to challenge the top 4.

I'm more than happy to keep Dawson. The lad tries his best, what more can you ask?

He is the same as Jenas, Lennon etc - all are gifted in a limited way (Dawson in the air, Jenas as an athelte, Lennon's pace) but none are top-class.

That's the gap that we must bridge either through training young talented players (Bale) or buying good ones (Woody, Berba). We appear to be doing both so we are heading the right way. I'm just not sure we are progressing fast enough.

 

[SpurSince57]

I remember Vega, and he was shit too.

At the end of the day SS, it comes down to opinion. Just because you say he isn't shit, doesn't mean he isn't. Same for me. Yes, he always gives his all, but, that doesn't mean he deserves a place in our starting line-up, does it? Especially when he's prone to fuck-ups. When fit, I expect Woodgate and King to start ahead of him every time, unless, of course, when one or the other is in need of a rest. He's decent back-up, in my opinon, nothing more.

So what do you define as 'shit'? Not quite top-drawer (which defines Dawson)? Anything below the absolute best?

Is Jenas shit? Is Tainio? Is Robinson? In fact, most of the squad? Because it's easier to think of players that have been described as 'shit' than those that haven't. And you ridiculously contradict yourself when you describe him as 'decent back-up'. Well, now we have Woodgate, that's what Dawson will be (as long as King and Woodgate stay fit). So 'decent back-up' equates to 'shit'?

Great! So it's 'top-class' or 'shit'. Nothing in between.

Think very carefully about this.